452 réponses à ce sujet

[Inverness Moon]

Shandepared wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

They are sapient, and they are sentient, in this fiction. 

Admiral Xen disagrees.

Admiral Xen doesn't write Mass Effect.

You're not trying hard enough.

Shandepared wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

I was discussing the capability of a computer to be programmed to behave as an organic brain does. Authenticity is irrelevant if they can both do the same thing.

Then we're never going to come to any kind of mutual agreement.

It's been less than a pleasure.

We need more time to achieve consensus. 

But, such a thing is quite difficult when you don't want to admit you're wrong.

Shandepared wrote...

Kikaimegami wrote...

The quarians wouldn't be around if the geth really had wanted to wipe them out, you realize.

The geth did their best to stop as many quarians as they could from escaping. The geth would have wiped them out to the last man, woman, and child if the quarians hadn't fled beyond their reach.

In anycase, exit the thread. You won't be missed.

Firstly, you don't know if the geth tried to stop the quarians from leaving, we lack details about the Morning War.

Secondly, the heretic geth were able to reach all the way to the Citadel. We don't know how much of that is attributed to Sovereign, so don't claim that the geth have limited reach and could not attack the Migrant Fleet wherever it is right now if they wanted.

Many are quite capable of reaching places that would get them burned.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 26 juillet 2010 - 07:30 .

[Tasi Nedas]

Nightwriter wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

They are sapient, and they are sentient, in this fiction. 

Admiral Xen disagrees.

Nightwriter: Jews are people.

Shand: Hitler disagrees.

Like, do you see how you can take any statement and say that a lunatic disagrees with it? And yet, oddly, the statement is still true... funny how that works, isn't it?

I see it more like:

Civil rights campaigner: Black people deserve equal rights and freedom from slavery

Some white supremacist: I disagree they should be our slaves.

Modifié par Tasi Nedas, 26 juillet 2010 - 07:30 .

[wulf3n]

Shandepared wrote...
I knew I was the only intelligent person in this thread and you just proved it. I had hopes for you, but oh well.

what reach? if the geth really wanted all the quarians dead, they would have followed them beyond the persius veil. ME1 showed that they are not physically incapable of leaving. 

[Kikaimegami]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Kikaimegami wrote...

The quarians wouldn't be around if the geth really had wanted to wipe them out, you realize.

Both sides of that conflict overreacted in excess.. it's everyone's fault. Like Paragon Shepard says: You all need to stop fighting this war or we'll all end up paying for it. It's a conflict that'll never be solved because 100% of the time, the quarians have attacked when they thought they would be victorious, but in a true battle, the geth would wipe the floor with them.

The point is that the geth must have reached military victory before they hit the billion-casualty mark. Yet they still hit the mark and then some. It's murder plain and simple. The geth were either completely uneducated in warfare (though unlikely because they could've Googled it) or they deliberately took genocidal action.

Of course the quarians would've done the same, and depending on your view on the geth it could be equally wrong, but they never had the chance to make this mistake.

But it's still a mistake. A big glaring fat one. A black mark on geth history if they were at all sentimental.

I said I was leaving, but I just wanted to respond to this on my way out... and while I'm attemtping to yank my keyboard out of the wall of the thread where it seems to have become embedded.

I never said it wasn't bad, in fact in the second part of that I said it's everybody's fault. Both sides did horrible things to each other and it's very obvious from recent events (Alarei) that the quarians would be more than happy to keep doing horrible things, proof enough that no matter what, billions on either side were destined to get wiped out.

What I'm trying to say is the argument needs to cease. Both sides need to work towards peace, or one side will end up being wiped out, and I'm sorry for those of you who are Tali fans or quarian fans, but things aren't looking good for the quarians at all in any such conflict.

Now I'm leaving. Really. Stop looking at me that way.

[Inverness Moon]

Shandepared wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

But, such a thing is quite difficult when you don't want to admit you're wrong.

If I were wrong I'd admit it, but I'm not.

You're still not trying hard enough.

Shandepared wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

Secondly, the heretic geth were able to reach all the way to the Citadel. We don't know how much of that is attributed to Sovereign, so don't claim that the geth have limited reach and could not attack the Migrant Fleet wherever it is right now if they wanted.

The fact that they killed 99% of the species is all the evidence we need.

Evidence for what? So then are you admitting that the Migrant Fleet is not beyond the reach of the geth?

[wulf3n]

Shandepared wrote...
The fact that they killed 99% of the species is all the evidence we need.

Wait when did they kill 99% i'm gonna need a source if im to believe that.

[V0luS_R0cKs7aR]

Shandepared wrote...

V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...

You need to play Mass Effect again, because that statement in any form has never appeared in the game.

It's mentioned either in the first book or in one of the codex entries.

Wow, way to narrow it down. Thank you, I like, almost found that right away!

Shandepared wrote...

Of-course I would think the 99% fatalities suffered by the quarians would be proof enough, but that's not adequate for some of you.

Then why did the Geth stop? There was no reason why the Geth couldn't have chased down that 1% and made the Quarians an extinct race. If you ask me, the Quarians were probably too stubborn and tried to fight it out to the last Quarian (and they needed women to fight because come on, their Quarians!).

The Geth actually did the Quarian race a favor. They let the 17 million smartest Quarians leave. Natural selection at its best.

[Nightwriter]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Nope. No matter how you look at it the geth are responsible for the near-extinction of the quarians. It's literally inexplicable how devastating the geth "self-defense" was on the quarian population. Like I said, they needlessly wiped out the quarians, no way around it. You could easily attribute it to their primitive machine-sentience, but it's still inexcusable, considering the alternatives.  They could've left after gaining military dominance. Instead they killed  non-belligerents including women and children and committed mass murder never before heard of.
It's even easier for them to escape if you consider that they could upload themselves to their network and redownload into a new platform. Just build a BSG-esque resurrection ship and get out of there instead of killing billions of innocents.

They were just about as sentient as Hitler, Stalin and Darth Vader. Thank God neither of the first two used WMD's. (Poor Alderaan.)

Look, to everyone who's hung up on the fact that the geth damn near wiped out the quarians: basically, sh*t happens.

Both sides made mistakes. As long as something is alive, and is sentient, sh*t is going to happen. Geth, humans, animals, what have you. We all kill each other, all of us, and the geth are not the first sapient creatures to get so caught up in a war that they lost sight of things. Add to that the fact that they were practically children, and called it the Morning War, and you start to realize they didn't really have sight of things to begin with. They were still just learning what the universe was.

The quarians made a mistake bringing the geth into the world as labor. Sentient life will react to other sentient life, and that is exactly what happened here, as it has countless times throughout history. The results were disastrous. We don't know the specifics of what happened in the war, or what each side did, but it seems to me no different than any other war.

[Inverness Moon]

Shandepared wrote...

A war of extermination.

That is not what I was debating. You said, "the geth would have wiped them out to the last man, woman, and child if the quarians hadn't fled beyond their reach."

I argue that the Migrant Fleet is not beyond the reach of the geth.

[wulf3n]

Shandepared wrote...
I'm tired of explaining the obvious to you people. I pity you for your lack of critical thinking skills. I suggest you read the codex entry on the geth uprising and then think carefully about what conclusions can be drawn from it.

Yeah there's nothing in the codex that implies the Geth killed 99%, or that they were limited to the persius veil.

[Chronoflect]

Shandepared wrote...

Kroesis- wrote...

I see. You are looking at them via a biological perspective. Thus your comment is inherently flawed.

I'm comparing them to the only sentient beings know exist and geth share none of their traits. Therefore I see no reason to believe they are actually alive.

Both humans and geth show signs of self-preservation.
Both humans and geth form thoughts through electrical patterns.
Both humans and geth reason.
Both humans and geth use basic coding that underlies all higher functions. (humans use acid sequencing while geth use digital sequencing.)

Humans are merely machines of various non-metals. Geth are merely machines of various metals.

If anything, the geth are more alive than viruses and bacteria. They are more alive than insects and many animals. Just because their minds are not made from the same material as ours, doesn't mean they aren't minds.

[V0luS_R0cKs7aR]

Of course not. Shand is just making stuff up.

http://www.gamefaqs....fect/faqs/50930

Nothing about the Geth wanting to exterminate the Quarians. There was no "War of Extermination." It was just war.

Modifié par V0luS_R0cKs7aR, 26 juillet 2010 - 07:40 .

[Chronoflect]

Shandepared wrote...

Chronoflect wrote...

Both humans and mice show signs of self-preservation.
Both humans and mice form thoughts through electrical patterns.
Both humans and mice reason.
Both humans and mice use basic coding that underlies all higher functions. (humans use acid sequencing while geth use digital sequencing.)

Are you saying mice aren't alive?

[V0luS_R0cKs7aR]

Shandepared wrote...


Any number of reasons. Since each and every one of you is too goddamn stupid to figure this out on your own I'll explain to you, as always.

Once word of the geth uprising spread the Council mobilized its fleet on the edges of the Perseus Veil in preparation for a possible geth attack. That attack never came.

What could the reasons be... they aren't difficult to imagine.

It was simply a strategic call. By this point the entirety of the Perseus Veil was under geth control and every quarian who had not escaped had been killed. So, why then go and provoke the Council by attacking? After the Council fleet stood down the geth still had no reason to chase after the quarains because they weren't a serious threat. Their military had been defeated and they had no real means of production. As I said before, a geth attack beyond their own borders was only likely to invite hostility from the rest of the galaxy.

Thanks for the fanfiction bro.

Shand wrote...

Moron wrote...

The Geth actually did the Quarian race a favor. They let the 17 million smartest Quarians leave. Natural selection at its best.

Oh my.

Haha, hilarious! Moron, I love it.

Modifié par V0luS_R0cKs7aR, 26 juillet 2010 - 07:42 .

[Inverness Moon]

Shandepared wrote...

V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...

Then why did the Geth stop?

Any number of reasons. Since each and every one of you is too goddamn stupid to figure this out on your own I'll explain to you, as always.

Once word of the geth uprising spread the Council mobilized its fleet on the edges of the Perseus Veil in preparation for a possible geth attack. That attack never came.

What could the reasons be... they aren't difficult to imagine.

It was simply a strategic call. By this point the entirety of the Perseus Veil was under geth control and every quarian who had not escaped had been killed. So, why then go and provoke the Council by attacking? After the Council fleet stood down the geth still had no reason to chase after the quarains because they weren't a serious threat. Their military had been defeated and they had no real means of production. As I said before, a geth attack beyond their own borders was only likely to invite hostility from the rest of the galaxy.

That is the obvious explanation.

The less obvious explanation is why didn't the geth finish what they started when the quarian reputation became trash. The Council is stingy when it comes to provoking war with the Terminus Systems, do you think they would lift a finger if the geth told them they only wanted the quarians?

[Tasi Nedas]

Shandepared wrote...

V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...

Then why did the Geth stop?

Any number of reasons. Since each and every one of you is too goddamn stupid to figure this out on your own I'll explain to you, as always.

Once word of the geth uprising spread the Council mobilized its fleet on the edges of the Perseus Veil in preparation for a possible geth attack. That attack never came.

What could the reasons be... they aren't difficult to imagine.

It was simply a strategic call. By this point the entirety of the Perseus Veil was under geth control and every quarian who had not escaped had been killed. So, why then go and provoke the Council by attacking? After the Council fleet stood down the geth still had no reason to chase after the quarains because they weren't a serious threat. Their military had been defeated and they had no real means of production. As I said before, a geth attack beyond their own borders was only likely to invite hostility from the rest of the galaxy.

Moron wrote...

The Geth actually did the Quarian race a favor. They let the 17 million smartest Quarians leave. Natural selection at its best.

Oh my.

You know what? arguing this is fine, but it does not call for name calling from some arrogant person who seems to think he or she is better than someone else because they don't agree with them so either give the name calling and insult thing a rest or shut the hell up huh? I think that's fair on everyone don't you?