307 réponses à ce sujet

[tommcc]

 Just a simple question (there's been a lot of discussion in the DAO forums about it, but now here).

I was just hoping for an official response on the likelihood of there being a DA2 toolset - even if that response is just "maybe". There was a great deal of marketing for the DAO Toolset before it was released, so I've been a bit concerned since there hasn't even been a single word about a possible DA2 toolset.

I'm aware that DA2 isn't too far into development, but I just want to know if the devs are at least considering it. The DAO toolset (which I think is awesome) got a bit of a mixed response and my concern that Bioware won't bother releasing a new one.

So yeah: will there be a DA2 toolset? If so, how different will it be from the first? If there won't be one, why? I'm not just making this as a direct appeal to the devs; feel free to speculate in here.

[joriandrake]

There was no confirmation of a toolset being included or not into DA2 yet

[CaptainBlackGold]

Let me just add my voice to this request.



What made DAO superb and infintely re-playable was the tool set and all the incredible work that modders do. Don't like the vanilla armor? Mod it. Don't like the grannie panties? Well, guess what, someone made alternatives. Don't like the way that some of the companions look? Well, lookie here, some bright person offers me fifty different options!



It is unreasonable to expect the artistic vision of the game creators to scratch where every player itches - but with modding tools, everyone can morph the game the way that fits them.



In this case, I am not terribly impressed with some of the current screenshots - especially the darkspawn armor. But I am not as upset as others simply because I assume a tool set will be issued and within a few days, someone will create something that fits MY vision of how they should look.



ME is an example of a good game with limited replayability for me - no tool set, difficult and cumbersome to mod and hence, after playing a couple of times, it sits on a shelf.



DAO on the other hand, I have played literally hundreds (thousands? I need a life) of hours simply because someone is always creating something new and interesting that I want to see in game.



So, for what it is worth, I want to strongly encourage the Dev's to release a toolset. If they don't. well, I will still buy their game but I WILL think mean thoughts! :-)

[epoch_]

Theres no reason to suspect one way or the other on this issue.

[Seryn]

 Oops--sorry for the inadvertant post (Is there a way to delete these things?)

Modifié par Seryn, 25 juillet 2010 - 05:09 .

[hexaligned]

This announcment is the only thing that keeps me checking these boards off and on. I will still at least consider buying the game if it's modable. I know I'll be burned for a heretic for saying so, but I didn't think vanilla DAO was all that great to begin with, the combat was way too easy, with a bunch of broken mechanics, BUT mods made it playable for me. Looking at the demographic they seem to be targeting with the changes already announced, I doubt very much complexity or balance is getting added to DA2's combat system...so my last hold out hope is for a toolset.

Modifié par relhart, 25 juillet 2010 - 06:31 .

[joriandrake]

Bioware seems to dislike that too much already leaked out, so it quite possible that for a while now we won't get any new specific info

[tommcc]

Seryn, if what you say is true - since you're the first on these forums to mention it - then that's honestly disappointing. What bothers me even more is that Mr. Priestly said they'd "continue" support for the current toolset. Considering that there's almost no support for it now*, I gather this to mean that they'll just let it stagnate.

But yeah, presuming this is the case, then I am rather disappointed. From what I can see, DAO didn't perform as well as Bioware anticipated (critically, financially or otherwise) and so they're leaving their previous mentalities at the door. Rather surprising, really, especially since they know how valuable a public toolset can be (Neverwinter Nights, anyone?).

Of course, I don't want to whine when there's no solid confirmation yet, but this is just my two cents. I'm sure DA2 will be a great game, but perhaps not the kind of game I was hoping for.


*Granted, I think Bioware did a great job kick starting the modding community, and there was a lot of support early on. Now, however, they've essentially abandoned the toolset.

Modifié par tommcc, 25 juillet 2010 - 05:46 .

[tommcc]

Just a heads up: Seryn removed his post out of respect for the devs, hence why my above post looks so confusing. I'm not going to nullify his action by repeating what he posted, but in essence it can be safe to assume that there won't be a toolset for DA2.

[saphirekosmos]

Kordaris wrote...

Difficult with VO.

Um, not really. Look at Oblivion and Fallout.

[jackkel dragon]

DAO had VO. It had a toolset. Heck, NWN had VO.

[Monstruo696]

I won't buy the game if it doesn't come with a toolset.

Not that I'll be using it, but one of the selling points of DA:O was it's tool set and the modding community.

EDIT: And I have to say, Bioware has a pretty poor track record for consistency, inside and outside their games.  One particular mod overhauled and modified certain items to make them more appealing and usable, while also adding certain things to the origins and the game itself to make it seem more believable (Like troops using something better than iron during the Battle of Ostagar, or Dwarven Nobles using Silverate or Hardened Gold)

Modifié par Monstruo696, 25 juillet 2010 - 06:16 .

[SirGladiator]

There wouldn't be any logical reason for them to not release a toolset, since they did with the first one and that seemed to go extremely well, in that there are tons of mods and everybody likes them. No matter how good a game is, mods make it much better. Obviously if there is any real flaw in a game a mod can totally fix it, and even if its already great mods can still make it more fun. There's really no way for DA2 to be as good as DA without a toolset, because the mods just make the game so vastly more fun to play.

[Wizbane]

Well, there is a toolset, otherwise what are they building DA:2 with?



They may even release it later, as downloadable content.



But does it really matter?



We got, after years of requests, our DA:O toolset. And in the end, it was a good toolset but totally useless. No one can expect a community of module builders to grow out of the DA:O toolset. It's a professional set, not aimed to the end-user. The lack of multiplayer NWN and NWN2 had did the rest.



So does it really matter?



In my opinion no. And I'd be the first to buy a product joining the multiplayer and commercial toolset aspects NWN2 had, without the D&D stuff attached to it. Someone will fill the void, but certainly is useless to push for it in the DA:2 environment, wasted time.

[zahra]

I somehow think that a toolset won't be in the horizon due to all the new-fangled shiny thingamajigs that will be present in the game. For example, ME2 is moddable, but only to a very limited extent. A lot of the mechanisms that they will be using sounds ME2-ish (I know I know, DA 2 is toootally NOT ME 2, I am talking about the game engine) so it is very unlikely.



Which is sad, as it lessens the replay value.



I am still crossing my fingers though. Hoping for a dev to swoop in and yell "There will be a toolset, stop being so negative godammit!"

[YohkoOhno]

Part of the problem though is that the NWN toolset had a few advantages towards it's market.



1) NWN was designed to allow multiplayer servers over the Internet. That made it easier for people to create modules that didn't really care much about scripting. (It also had a DM client).



2) NWN was not as dependent on Cinematics and other cool things that started with NWN2 and moved to DA:O. To make a good module or campaign for DA:O that lives up to the expectations of the players, you'd need to work a lot harder.



3) NWN had D&D. D&D is a game that has been around for a while and has thousands of DMs, who can easilly adapt some PnP modules and ideas to this game. The problem now is that DA:O is it's own animal, and I think it would be harder to figure out game balance and other ideas.

[zahra]

Wizbane wrote...

Well, there is a toolset, otherwise what are they building DA:2 with?

They may even release it later, as downloadable content.

But does it really matter?

We got, after years of requests, our DA:O toolset. And in the end, it was a good toolset but totally useless. No one can expect a community of module builders to grow out of the DA:O toolset. It's a professional set, not aimed to the end-user. The lack of multiplayer NWN and NWN2 had did the rest.

So does it really matter?

In my opinion no. And I'd be the first to buy a product joining the multiplayer and commercial toolset aspects NWN2 had, without the D&D stuff attached to it. Someone will fill the void, but certainly is useless to push for it in the DA:2 environment, wasted time.

I have to respectfully disagree on your  assertion that the DA toolset has been totally useless. There are quite a lot of cool mods out there, that have improved and enhanced gameplay, in addition to applying fixes on errors such as broken dialog and inconsistencies. 

Modifié par zahra, 25 juillet 2010 - 09:37 .

[Arttis]

tommcc wrote...

Just a heads up: Seryn removed his post out of respect for the devs, hence why my above post looks so confusing. I'm not going to nullify his action by repeating what he posted, but in essence it can be safe to assume that there won't be a toolset for DA2.

Will not believe that.
Either way chances are I may not buy the game without the toolset.I remmeber them saying that consoles would probably have it...they didn't.I am spending 1k+ on a new comp and the game.Chances are I may not buy this game depending on how much replay it has.So far the replay sounds far less than origins.I was one of those players who went out of his way to find the small differences.
Well whatever.
I am sure I will not be missed if I left.:innocent:

[fchopin]

If there is no toolset it would influence my decision in buying the game.

[Maverick827]

I would be disappointed if there was no toolset, but I wouldn't boycott the game if there wasn't one. The Dragon Age community has largely thus far turned out to be terrible for content but adequate for bug fixes.

[bjdbwea]

SirGladiator wrote...

There wouldn't be any logical reason for them to not release a toolset, since they did with the first one and that seemed to go extremely well, in that there are tons of mods and everybody likes them. No matter how good a game is, mods make it much better. Obviously if there is any real flaw in a game a mod can totally fix it, and even if its already great mods can still make it more fun. There's really no way for DA2 to be as good as DA without a toolset, because the mods just make the game so vastly more fun to play.

You are right, but the "logical" reason not to release a toolset would be to sell DLC. The DLC for DA 1 sold well regardless, you say, even though it had a toolset? Oblivion and Fallout 3 had the best toolset ever, you say, and still their DLCs sold very well? That's true. But without a toolset you could sell even more DLCs. Or at least the people in charge probably think so. Just look at ME 2, people are paying for retextures and a few new weapons. As long as PC gamers can easily stuff like that for free, you "lose" money.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 25 juillet 2010 - 11:52 .

[UberDuber]

I doubt.

[tommcc]

Arttis wrote...

tommcc wrote...

[color=rgb(255, 0, 0)">Just a heads up: Seryn removed his post out of respect for the devs, hence why my above post looks so confusing. I'm not going to nullify his action by repeating what he posted, but in essence ]it can be safe to assume that there won't be a toolset for DA2.[/color][/b]

Will not believe that.

I don't expect you too, especially since there's no way to verify it. Seryn has told me this from a purported conversation he had with Chris Priestly; I don't really think he's got any reason to lie, and I'm convinced enough. Of course, I still think we need to wait on an official confirmation (i.e, what this thread is for).

There wouldn't be any logical reason for them to not release a toolset, since they did with the first one and that seemed to go extremely well, in that there are tons of mods and everybody likes them. 

Regardless of my own personal opinion of the toolset, I don't really think it went "extremely well". The fact that there's been only a couple of standalone modules released shows this, and when you look at how games like NWN, Oblivion etc. did at the eight month mark, DAO hardly has "tons" of mods. Reception to the mods themselves may be positive, but there's been a considerable amount of complaints regarding the toolset that even an optimist like myself can't ignore. I'm sure Bioware is aware of these complaints too.

2) NWN was not as dependent on Cinematics and other cool things that started with NWN2 and moved to DA:O. To make a good module or campaign for DA:O that lives up to the expectations of the players, you'd need to work a lot harder.

A pretty accurate observation; we've seen that with these advanced, shiny, HD-era games, it gets harder for modders to compete, quality-wise, with these campaigns that have been made with the assistance of a small army of developers. Modding for games such as NWN was great, because the game didn't contain any complex graphical effects or things like that. Still, just because game development has become more complicated over the years, doesn't mean developers should give up on the idea of community created content. A bit of faith goes a long way!

[Maverick827]

bjdbwea wrote...

SirGladiator wrote...

There wouldn't be any logical reason for them to not release a toolset, since they did with the first one and that seemed to go extremely well, in that there are tons of mods and everybody likes them. No matter how good a game is, mods make it much better. Obviously if there is any real flaw in a game a mod can totally fix it, and even if its already great mods can still make it more fun. There's really no way for DA2 to be as good as DA without a toolset, because the mods just make the game so vastly more fun to play.

You are right, but the "logical" reason not to release a toolset would be to sell DLC. The DLC for DA 1 sold well regardless, you say, even though it had a toolset? Oblivion and Fallout 3 had the best toolset ever, you say, and still their DLCs sold very well? That's true. But without a toolset you could sell even more DLCs. Or at least the people in charge probably think so. Just look at ME 2, people are paying for retextures and a few new weapons. As long as PC gamers can easily stuff like that for free, you "lose" money.

DLC has absolutely nothing to do with the toolset in Dragon Age.

The only impressive unique content coming out of the modding community are a few armor sets and weapon models (maybe seven or eight total, at the most).

Most Dragon Age modders waste their time on nudity mods, not new adventures and quests with voice acting.