80 réponses à ce sujet

[atheelogos]

Simpfan wrote...

People really scraping at the barrel for things to complain about now, it seems

I don't think so. There are certain things you have to do when looking at sci fi. Suspending disbelief is the biggest out of those things. For this issue there are some, including myself,  who can't. You can tell that those writers didn't have science advisors. It shows through in the writing and It ruins the gaming experience. I don't see how thats "scraping at the barrel" It's a legitimate complaint to me.

[atheelogos]

Kroesis- wrote...

If the Quarian's are wanting to take back their home world as many do, why would they compromise their immune system, which is fine for their home planet, with nanites? Technology (clean rooms and suits) have made their immune systems worse than they were originally, nanites would probably result, after a few generations, in a dependence on that technology permanently, even if they reclaimed their home world.

...........nanites and immune systems don't work like that.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

killersinc wrote...

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

killersinc wrote...

Falcon509 wrote...

Without the same environment, two groups of people would not develop along the same technological path. For instance, western civilization didn't develop fireworks and explosives, the chinese did. If traders from the west didn't go east, there's no guarantee that we would have developed the same technology.

It's possible that the quarians never developed nanotechnology in the first place. It's also possible that because they're stuck on spaceships for the foreseeable future, they're more preoccupied with making sure they just have enough resources to stay alive. Nanotechnology isn't exactly the cheapest path to take.

Given how medigel can revive people and save them from dying in any number of horrific and gruesome ways and how someone can smear omnigel on a lock to instantly open it or fix a tank... It would seem better to use those things.

I see what your saying. I could see why they wouldn't move toward nanotech now but the price of nanites would be nill after you create a few bits. After you have a few thousand nanites they can self replicate till you have enough for the entire population. I think in ME3 you should see a human group of nano tech researchers give the tech to the quarians and use it to attack the reapers. Throw a nanite bomb at the first reaper and you could have a massive wave of reaper death right there .

I had a idea before about using nano robots to ward of viral infections (being a artificial immune system... )... like nano robots targeting HIV strains not bothering anything thing else that's natural to a host. ... maybe they should work on a idea of such with the quarian's research of colonizing a new world, and being evolved/modified to live on it with minor complications... a nano-immunity vaccine for future colonization of a new world similar to their old one... 

Spot on! this is exactly what I was talking about!

that's what cerberus practically did with shepard reviving him in the game, using advanced biology with nano-technology... the quarians should do the same, yet with the notion of creating a automated artificial nano-immune system vaccine:wizard:, the concept could be applied differently to other ailments too.

Modifié par FuturePasTimeCE, 25 juillet 2010 - 09:19 .

[KitsuneRommel]

Falcon509 wrote...

Given how medigel can revive people and save them from dying in any number of horrific and gruesome ways and how someone can smear omnigel on a lock to instantly open it or fix a tank... It would seem better to use those things.

It's rather more incredible how no one else developed anything similar to the medi-gel considering that most of the races were hundreds or thousands of years ahead of humans in technology.

[Sarcastic]

atheelogos wrote...

Kroesis- wrote...

If the Quarian's are wanting to take back their home world as many do, why would they compromise their immune system, which is fine for their home planet, with nanites? Technology (clean rooms and suits) have made their immune systems worse than they were originally, nanites would probably result, after a few generations, in a dependence on that technology permanently, even if they reclaimed their home world.

...........nanites and immune systems don't work like that.

Do you honestly believe that? Anytime a outside force affects the body, the body adapts. This goes both ways, if someone is constantly exposed to sick people they will be sickly at first but will gradually adapt. I work in a hospital and i have for the better part of a decade. When I first started I was sick constantly, now I never get sick from anything. Why? Because being constantly exposed to the worst airborne illnesses in my area has strengthened my immune system. If nanites were constantly destroying foreign objects in my body then my immune system would be non existent. Without the nanites I would die very quickly from the common cold. This is why influenza aka "the flu" kills children and old people, because their immune systems are no longer strong enough to fight it.

A biological or genetic treatment would be a better option then nanites for the quarians. Permanently alter their DNA to be more resillient to exposure.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

Falcon509 wrote...

Given how medigel can revive people and save them from dying in any number of horrific and gruesome ways and how someone can smear omnigel on a lock to instantly open it or fix a tank... It would seem better to use those things.

It's rather more incredible how no one else developed anything similar to the medi-gel considering that most of the races were hundreds or thousands of years ahead of humans in technology.

I wonder if other aliens can use the same technology as humans... can Salarians be inside of the "pinnacle" Simulation station too? I know the asaris (avatar)/quarians use it, does that mean any other alien races aswell?

Modifié par FuturePasTimeCE, 25 juillet 2010 - 09:46 .

[FuturePasTimeCE]

Palidine_0225 wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Kroesis- wrote...

If the Quarian's are wanting to take back their home world as many do, why would they compromise their immune system, which is fine for their home planet, with nanites? Technology (clean rooms and suits) have made their immune systems worse than they were originally, nanites would probably result, after a few generations, in a dependence on that technology permanently, even if they reclaimed their home world.

...........nanites and immune systems don't work like that.

Do you honestly believe that? Anytime a outside force affects the body, the body adapts. This goes both ways, if someone is constantly exposed to sick people they will be sickly at first but will gradually adapt. I work in a hospital and i have for the better part of a decade. When I first started I was sick constantly, now I never get sick from anything. Why? Because being constantly exposed to the worst airborne illnesses in my area has strengthened my immune system. If nanites were constantly destroying foreign objects in my body then my immune system would be non existent. Without the nanites I would die very quickly from the common cold. This is why influenza aka "the flu" kills children and old people, because their immune systems are no longer strong enough to fight it.

A biological or genetic treatment would be a better option then nanites for the quarians. Permanently alter their DNA to be more resillient to exposure.

i'm just saying, vaccine (synthetic: technological)... a symbiotic nano-technological biological vaccine with a specific time duration... that's like you saying me taking robotusen, alkaseltzer or nyquil (synthetic meds/immune stimulants, not purely natural) to help curb a cold symptom is impossible... but eating oranges and other fruits are more realistic in terms of combating illnesses... 

some synthetic things are made of completely natural ingredients by the way... it's like using oranges to somehow create  artificial immuno-nano-bot-cells... or building robots using plants and wood instead of metal and fiberglass

[Sarcastic]

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

i'm just saying, vaccine (synthetic: technological)... a symbiotic nano-technological biological vaccine with a specific time duration... that's like you saying me taking robotusen, alkaseltzer or nyquil (synthetic meds/immune stimulants, not purely natural) to help curb a cold symptom is impossible... but eating oranges and other fruits are more realistic in terms of combating illnesses... 

some synthetic things are made of completely natural ingredients by the way... it's like using oranges to somehow create  artificial immuno-nano-bot-cells... or building robots using plants and wood instead of metal and fiberglass

I was not saying that nanites would not fix the problem, I stated that a biological/genetic solution would be better. Using nanites would cause the natural organic immune system to weaken as the nanites performed that task instead.

I do not know about you and personally I am not in the shoes of living my entire life in a enviro suit but the idea of having to permenantly rely on nanites to stay "alive" seems like a crappy solution.

[Kroesis-]

Palidine_0225 wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Kroesis- wrote...

If the Quarian's are wanting to take back their home world as many do, why would they compromise their immune system, which is fine for their home planet, with nanites? Technology (clean rooms and suits) have made their immune systems worse than they were originally, nanites would probably result, after a few generations, in a dependence on that technology permanently, even if they reclaimed their home world.

...........nanites and immune systems don't work like that.

Do you honestly believe that? Anytime a outside force affects the body, the body adapts. This goes both ways, if someone is constantly exposed to sick people they will be sickly at first but will gradually adapt. I work in a hospital and i have for the better part of a decade. When I first started I was sick constantly, now I never get sick from anything. Why? Because being constantly exposed to the worst airborne illnesses in my area has strengthened my immune system. If nanites were constantly destroying foreign objects in my body then my immune system would be non existent. Without the nanites I would die very quickly from the common cold. This is why influenza aka "the flu" kills children and old people, because their immune systems are no longer strong enough to fight it.

A biological or genetic treatment would be a better option then nanites for the quarians. Permanently alter their DNA to be more resillient to exposure.

Palidine_0225 wrote...

I was not saying that nanites would
not fix the problem, I stated that a biological/genetic solution would
be better. Using nanites would cause the natural organic immune system
to weaken as the nanites performed that task instead.

I do not
know about you and personally I am not in the shoes of living my entire
life in a enviro suit but the idea of having to permenantly rely on
nanites to stay "alive" seems like a crappy solution.

Precisely

Modifié par Kroesis-, 25 juillet 2010 - 10:17 .

[s0meguy6665]

whats even more confused is why the super intelligent tech savvy salarians haven't built some omgwtfpwned space ships of doom and why they haven't made themselves into similar cyborgs that extend their life forever, and oh why hasn't anybody figured out to take asari DNA and make everyone live a gazillion years. i mean currently dna manipulation is only limited by a bunch of religious people.

or why the quarians didn't simply learn from their mistakes and created better AI's to destroy the geth. or why female shepard's body doesn't get omgwtfpwned shattered when she fires the masscannon?

o wait its just a game and games dont have to make all that much sense.

Modifié par s0meguy6665, 25 juillet 2010 - 11:03 .

[ScotGaymer]

I think you guys are over thinking things seriously. You are also looking at the problem from a human perspective not a quarian which would be quite different. Just because you think or act or are made up one way doesnt mean everyone and everything is or should be the same.



A lots of the things you guys are suggesting wether they make sense or not (and some of them dont) just dont make for a sensible or good story.



Sorry.



Also to the Quarian thing Tali explains it. She tells Shepard that the Quarian immune system isnt weak per se (it is weak by human standards) its just different. It is reliant upon the unique make up of their home world (not having insects for example) and being cut off from the evironment they need to thrive they can only merely survive in a human like environment with their encounter suits.



Being cut off from their homeworld is what caused the weakening of their immune systems and its why they are so desperate to return. And after ME2 it looks like the Geth may well let them.

The explanation may well be that given their near fanatic wish to return to their home (which lets face it humanity would be the same if we ever lost earth) is why they have never explored means to "fix" their immune systems as humans would see it.



They may not even see it as a problem as they dont really think that their immune system is broken as such. Just weakened from being seperated fromt he homeworld. The solution then is obvious. Reclaim the homeworld.



Yes sometimes there are plot holes; and sometimes its just people over analyzing a situation after the fact. After all hind sight is 20-20 they say.

[Evindale]

Maybe it's because they look funny or the fact that those stylish suits hug to the body, giving a look of sleekness.



Perhaps though, they don't have the money, they can't even buy their own top line starships, they use scrap.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

Palidine_0225 wrote...

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

i'm just saying, vaccine (synthetic: technological)... a symbiotic nano-technological biological vaccine with a specific time duration... that's like you saying me taking robotusen, alkaseltzer or nyquil (synthetic meds/immune stimulants, not purely natural) to help curb a cold symptom is impossible... but eating oranges and other fruits are more realistic in terms of combating illnesses... 

some synthetic things are made of completely natural ingredients by the way... it's like using oranges to somehow create  artificial immuno-nano-bot-cells... or building robots using plants and wood instead of metal and fiberglass

I was not saying that nanites would not fix the problem, I stated that a biological/genetic solution would be better. Using nanites would cause the natural organic immune system to weaken as the nanites performed that task instead.

I do not know about you and personally I am not in the shoes of living my entire life in a enviro suit but the idea of having to permenantly rely on nanites to stay "alive" seems like a crappy solution.

I disagree. if you have a headache, are you going to use pills (let's look at aspirin in perspective as nanites) to curb the headpains or prefer using some unavailable or inconvenient means of biological/genetic methods? that's like saying HIV patients using ATZ meds are lame, or Chemo is crappy... 

Modifié par FuturePasTimeCE, 25 juillet 2010 - 11:18 .

[FuturePasTimeCE]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

I think you guys are over thinking things seriously. You are also looking at the problem from a human perspective not a quarian which would be quite different. Just because you think or act or are made up one way doesnt mean everyone and everything is or should be the same.

A lots of the things you guys are suggesting wether they make sense or not (and some of them dont) just dont make for a sensible or good story.

Sorry.

Also to the Quarian thing Tali explains it. She tells Shepard that the Quarian immune system isnt weak per se (it is weak by human standards) its just different. It is reliant upon the unique make up of their home world (not having insects for example) and being cut off from the evironment they need to thrive they can only merely survive in a human like environment with their encounter suits.

Being cut off from their homeworld is what caused the weakening of their immune systems and its why they are so desperate to return. And after ME2 it looks like the Geth may well let them.
The explanation may well be that given their near fanatic wish to return to their home (which lets face it humanity would be the same if we ever lost earth) is why they have never explored means to "fix" their immune systems as humans would see it.

They may not even see it as a problem as they dont really think that their immune system is broken as such. Just weakened from being seperated fromt he homeworld. The solution then is obvious. Reclaim the homeworld.

Yes sometimes there are plot holes; and sometimes its just people over analyzing a situation after the fact. After all hind sight is 20-20 they say.

apparently we're all studying the same thing... universal genetics... xenobiology...


why not study the anatomy, and biological make up of quarians to better understand their health and ways to improve upon such contributing to the ever-evolving galactic community?

[ScotGaymer]

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...
 apparently we're all studying the same thing... universal genetics... xenobiology...


why not study the anatomy, and biological make up of quarians to better understand their health and ways to improve upon such contributing to the ever-evolving galactic community?

See you are still over thinking things.

Its just a game. Its just a story. What you are suggesting would not add to the story.

Why would the Citadel races expend the effort to help the Quarians exactly? Ashley put it right - most races humans included look out for their own first. And considering the Quarians are in exile constantly on the move and dirt poor; and are responsible for in the eyes of most of the galaxy unleashing a hugely hostile AI in violation of Citadel Edict...

Theres no reason for the Citadel to help them. They dont have the money to hire private assistance. They dont have the resources to do it themselves. They probably dont even want to do it themselves because it seems to me they dont even see it as a real pressing problem.

[Amdusias]

´Volus need a SUPER LASER !

[FuturePasTimeCE]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...
 apparently we're all studying the same thing... universal genetics... xenobiology...


why not study the anatomy, and biological make up of quarians to better understand their health and ways to improve upon such contributing to the ever-evolving galactic community?

I know it's just a game... how are those tiny little sentences, over thinking?... your RE:OP had more characters than my puny overthought... 


See you are still over thinking things.

Its just a game. Its just a story. What you are suggesting would not add to the story.

Why would the Citadel races expend the effort to help the Quarians exactly? Ashley put it right - most races humans included look out for their own first. And considering the Quarians are in exile constantly on the move and dirt poor; and are responsible for in the eyes of most of the galaxy unleashing a hugely hostile AI in violation of Citadel Edict...

Theres no reason for the Citadel to help them. They dont have the money to hire private assistance. They dont have the resources to do it themselves. They probably dont even want to do it themselves because it seems to me they dont even see it as a real pressing problem.

[Repellerar]

To build a machine is one thing, it's another to stand against mother nature. Technology =/= Nature

[killersinc]

Well I will suspend my disbelief for a moment and say that the Quarians have been keeping their heads in the sand instead of trying to advance their civilization. Then why did they not try to gain a new planet? There are so many planets that are uncharted and they could have found one that their immune system would have adapted to. The story makes this race to be a bunch of complete morons who have wonderful skills in keeping ships afloat. I was just trying to get an idea of expanding the story for this race, because it makes no sense to me.



I just want to state this for everyone who is saying that "Why don't you just enjoy the game". Well guys I do enjoy the game and I suspend my disbelief in most of the science that happens in the game. But to make this just magically disappear would give injustice to the story. You could expand the story to say that the admiralty board decided that nanites would weaken the race. Also the gaining another world was not in the best interest for the fleet because only the home world would do. Just give me some story background on why these wandering vagabonds don't settle down in a nice little world that they could terraform just for them. Just get a world that isn't charted yet and build up a home world. In a few generations when your numbers are in the billions again you can retake the worlds you once lost.

[Elvis_Mazur]

Their immune system tend to adapt to the virus,bacteria,whatever than fight them. I'm not a scientist but I think that is why any immune system-booster wouldn't work.

[killersinc]

PetrySilva wrote...

Their immune system tend to adapt to the virus,bacteria,whatever than fight them. I'm not a scientist but I think that is why any immune system-booster wouldn't work.

Then Vaccines do not work in your view? They are immune system boosters. I was thinking that nanites would kill the major things like cancer and life threatening diseases. The rest would get attacked by the immune system.

[Greyhawk79]

killersinc wrote...

Seriously folks in this day in age we are within 100 years of nanites taking over for our human immune system and being able to fight any and all infection. This is many years after we would have that abliity, so a race of AI builders are capable of making a host of machines that think in independent actions but they can't make a simliar machine that would be able to boost their crappy immune system. I find this insulting to our intellegence that a race that has had more time to build these machines wouldn't have the imagination or the drive to make these machines. Just think about the concept that you couldn't leave a pressure suit because you would die without it. If you had this you would look for every option to get the hell out of the suit. I know I would! Then why not make an artifical immune system that would boost their natural defenses long enough for the race to get back to a equilibrium? 

To rely on nanites as anything but suplemental is dangerous. An EMP would be able to wipe out your immune system. Why would any spieces make themselves that open to bio attack?

[MassEffect762]

I wouldn't be surprised if bioware takes this concept and adds the geth into the equation to solve the quarians weak immunity come ME3.(paragon ending)

[Kroesis-]

MassEffect762 wrote...

I wouldn't be surprised if bioware takes this concept and adds the geth into the equation to solve the quarians weak immunity come ME3.(paragon ending)

That wouldn't actually surprise me too much.

[killersinc]

Kroesis- wrote...

MassEffect762 wrote...

I wouldn't be surprised if bioware takes this concept and adds the geth into the equation to solve the quarians weak immunity come ME3.(paragon ending)

That wouldn't actually surprise me too much.

It wouldn't suprise me either!