80 réponses à ce sujet

[Blayzereborn]

I've not played Awakening yet, but Mhairi will join Daveth on my list of characters I wish had survived. Add Dog to the party and it's a dream team -- with hopefully no crippling emotional disorders.

[SirOccam]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Is that why every single companion wants to become a Grey Warden and put a cap on their lifespan and submit themselves to an inevitably violent and unpleasant end for essentially no good reason?

Um, what? That's not the case. Mhairi hero-worshipped them like Jory did and the Crown did call for volunteers and she signed up. Oghren was running away from his wife and child and since the last time he'd really felt good enough was when he was fighting the Archdemon with you, he went to the Wardens. Anders doesn't volunteer, you conscript him to save him from the Templars and he makes the best of it. Nathaniel either is also forcibly conscripted or literally has nothing else in this country and is looking for a way to both stay close to home and try to redeem his family name. Velanna doesn't give a damn about being a Warden, she just wants to find her sister and you tell her that being a GW would help her do that. Sigrun seems the Grey Wardens as really close to the Legion of the Dead and her unit has been all wiped out.

Yes, but that's my point. Mhairi is all about joining the Wardens. Her story I buy. Anders I sort of buy since he's in the same situation DA:O characters were...they need to be Conscripted to save them from another fate.

But Oghren? Why can't he hang around and help the Wardens without having to risk killing himself in the Joining?
Nathaniel? Same thing...why isn't helping the Wardens enough to redeem his family's name? The only person he needs to impress is the Warden Commander anyway.
Velanna doesn't need to become a Warden...she could just have Wardens help her. I know if she asked, my Warden would have helped.
Sigrun, okay. She seems almost determined to die somehow.

No one here knows anything about the thirty-year lifespan thing when they signed up and several of them proved to be at least mildly suicidal anyway.

Your Warden knows...you just aren't given an opportunity to tell anyone about it. Which I think totally sucks. I wanted to be able to tell them (especially Nathaniel and Velanna and Oghren) exactly what they're getting themselves into. And maybe talk them out of it. It's a contrived external obstacle that is only there so the subject doesn't come up. There's no ACTUAL reason to keep that information from them. There's not nearly as desperate a need for Wardens as there was in Origins, where there was an actual Archdemon on the way. This is mopping up work at best.

The companions in Origins proved you don't HAVE to be a Warden to fight Darkspawn. I mean Oghren was there, he should know.

And really, the Joining would have turned into MORE of a joke if anyone
they thought to hand the chalice to made it through just fine.

It's already a joke, because you have one token death, then everyone else is assured success. It's like "hey, maybe I should be a Warden" and you're like "okay." And they drink the stuff and they're like "hey, I'm a Warden now" and you're like "cool." It has none of the suspense or atmosphere of the Joining from Origins. In fact, for a brief, absurd moment in Origins, I wondered if my character might die too.

They should have made it a random chance that any of them could die in the Joining. Or make it so that 1 character must die, but it won't necessarily be a certain one. Then at least the consequences would have some real weight. Sure, people would probably re-load until they got the characters they wanted, but so what? All they accomplished with the way they did it was to confuse and annoy people.

[Sarah1281]

I don't understand the fascination with random-Joining deaths. It would make no sense. If you, Alistair, Duncan, Riordan, ect. survived the Joining once then no matter what day you took it on, no matter what you were wearing, no matter if the person doing the Joining was nice to you or not, or how many other people did it...you would survive. People like Daveth and Mhairi? They are PHYSICALLY unable to withstand the taint. It wouldn't matter if Oghren, Anders, Sigrun, Nathaniel, AND Velanna all died during their Joining, it wouldn't make Mhairi any more able to live through it and to imply that one completely irrelelevant factors like the ones I've already listed might have anything to do with someone living or dying is just absurd.

[SirOccam]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I don't understand the fascination with random-Joining deaths. It would make no sense. If you, Alistair, Duncan, Riordan, ect. survived the Joining once then no matter what day you took it on, no matter what you were wearing, no matter if the person doing the Joining was nice to you or not, or how many other people did it...you would survive. People like Daveth and Mhairi? They are PHYSICALLY unable to withstand the taint. It wouldn't matter if Oghren, Anders, Sigrun, Nathaniel, AND Velanna all died during their Joining, it wouldn't make Mhairi any more able to live through it and to imply that one completely irrelelevant factors like the ones I've already listed might have anything to do with someone living or dying is just absurd.

Yes but we only find out they are physically unable to withstand it when they actually die.  Before that time, we don't know, and it really doesn't matter, because it all comes down to the bottom line of whether they die or not. There's no lore reason why Mhairi shouldn't be able to survive it.

It's like Schrödinger's Cat. Whether any particular person can survive it or not is unknown until you actually DO something to find out. Until we put Mhairi through the Joining and collapse the wavefunction, we have no way of knowing whether she can or cannot survive it. Therefore, it is at least as reasonable for her to be able to survive it as it is for her not to. Dying means she couldn't survive it, so living means she could have. It's not like anyone could exclaim, "Hey! Why did Mhairi live?! She isn't supposed to be able to survive the Joining!" There is no reason whatsoever for her survivability to be set in place before the Joining, and therefore whether they can survive or not is utterly moot and redundant.

So if there was this "random selection" idea were implemented, it would just mean that whoever died would turn out not to have been able to survive the Joining. *shrug*

[TJPags]

I agree with the fiasco point of the Joining. It's pretty much, Mhairi died because, well, SOMEONE has to die, right? Kind of cheapened it to me.



I'll also agree, I was very confused by that chancelor (whatever his name was) doing the ritual. What happened to, it's a secret, only Grey Wardens know, and you only know after it happens. Hell, neither you nor Alistair know how to do it by the end of Origins . . Riordan does. It's not even clear if your Warden knows how to do it in Awakenings . . . how screwed up is that???

[SirOccam]

TJPags wrote...

I agree with the fiasco point of the Joining. It's pretty much, Mhairi died because, well, SOMEONE has to die, right? Kind of cheapened it to me.

I'll also agree, I was very confused by that chancelor (whatever his name was) doing the ritual. What happened to, it's a secret, only Grey Wardens know, and you only know after it happens. Hell, neither you nor Alistair know how to do it by the end of Origins . . Riordan does. It's not even clear if your Warden knows how to do it in Awakenings . . . how screwed up is that???

I could buy the fact that he knew how to do the ritual, having served with the Wardens for so long, but I still felt rather cheated that he said the "join us" words at the beginning. Those words should have so much significance for the Warden at that point...it would be such a fitting thing for him or her to have the opportunity to say them.

[TJPags]

SirOccam wrote...

TJPags wrote...

I agree with the fiasco point of the Joining. It's pretty much, Mhairi died because, well, SOMEONE has to die, right? Kind of cheapened it to me.

I'll also agree, I was very confused by that chancelor (whatever his name was) doing the ritual. What happened to, it's a secret, only Grey Wardens know, and you only know after it happens. Hell, neither you nor Alistair know how to do it by the end of Origins . . Riordan does. It's not even clear if your Warden knows how to do it in Awakenings . . . how screwed up is that???

I could buy the fact that he knew how to do the ritual, having served with the Wardens for so long, but I still felt rather cheated that he said the "join us" words at the beginning. Those words should have so much significance for the Warden at that point...it would be such a fitting thing for him or her to have the opportunity to say them.

Wait - what says he served with the Wardens so long?  He served at Amaranthine while Howe had it, I thought.  Sure, he was there when the Orlesian Wardens were, but do we know how long that was?  It didn't seem like such a long time to me . . .and can you really see the Orlesian Wardens sharing the Joining recipe with some Ferelden Steward?  

[SirOccam]

TJPags wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

TJPags wrote...

I agree with the fiasco point of the Joining. It's pretty much, Mhairi died because, well, SOMEONE has to die, right? Kind of cheapened it to me.

I'll also agree, I was very confused by that chancelor (whatever his name was) doing the ritual. What happened to, it's a secret, only Grey Wardens know, and you only know after it happens. Hell, neither you nor Alistair know how to do it by the end of Origins . . Riordan does. It's not even clear if your Warden knows how to do it in Awakenings . . . how screwed up is that???

I could buy the fact that he knew how to do the ritual, having served with the Wardens for so long, but I still felt rather cheated that he said the "join us" words at the beginning. Those words should have so much significance for the Warden at that point...it would be such a fitting thing for him or her to have the opportunity to say them.

Wait - what says he served with the Wardens so long?  He served at Amaranthine while Howe had it, I thought.  Sure, he was there when the Orlesian Wardens were, but do we know how long that was?  It didn't seem like such a long time to me . . .and can you really see the Orlesian Wardens sharing the Joining recipe with some Ferelden Steward?  

Well I admit it's not the most authoritative source, but the Dragon Age Wiki says:
"When the Grey Wardens took over Amaranthine, they reinstated Varel as seneschal. He is privy to many secrets of the order, despite not being a Grey Warden himself."

It's true, I don't know how long he's been with the Wardens, but what it comes down to is I could buy it. I could suspend my disbelief. I don't think the Orlesians telling him about the Joining is that unlikely, however...after all, they are there to help the Ferelden Wardens get (re-)started, not compete with them. Wardens are (or should be) above political stuff like that.

Anyway...I really don't mind Varel knowing how to do the Joining. I just hate hate hate the fact that he says the words.

Modifié par SirOccam, 04 août 2010 - 02:20 .

[TJPags]

Hmmm . . . .it does say that, huh?



I don't like it . . not one bit. Given all the secrecy Duncan shrouds over the Joining in Origins, and even Riordan doesn't say anything about anything unless it's just him, Alistair and the PC, I really can't see these Wardens - Orlesians, at that - giving up the secrets so easily.



Plot device, clearly, and a crappy one, IMO.

[Sarah1281]

For some of them, it's not feasible. I mean, Alistair may be King or a drunken exile, Sten goes back home if he gets his sword, and Wynne, Shale, and a non-romanced Leliana have other plans.

[SirOccam]

TJPags wrote...

Hmmm . . . .it does say that, huh?

I have to be honest, though it does undermine my case...that line might be based on the fact that he knows the Joining ritual. In which case using it as a basis for WHY he knows the Joining ritual would be circular reasoning. Like I said, not the most authoritative source.

http://dragonage.wik...Seneschal_Varel

[Homebound]

Dragon Age 2 will take place around the same time Dragon Age: Origins is happening. Maybe Mhairi will be a permanent possible Recruit with her leaving the party like Morrigan did at the end?

*Crosses fingers*

And like someone said in a previous post, the Joining ritual was poorly executed..I realize it would be annoying to have a long-ass cutscene for each character that joins with you, but the WEIGHT of the Joining did NOT have the same weight it had in Origins. This really took away from the story for me. And looking back at characters like Anders, who at the end of my playthrough, just LEAVES the Grey Wardens like it was the Boyscouts really got my teeth grinding. Did he even understand that he will die within 30 years or so?

EDIT: Not to say Anders sucks or anything.

Modifié par Just_mike, 06 août 2010 - 11:04 .

[Homebound]

Hell Mutant wrote...

Nice Mhairi creation!

Mhairi!

Thx, I think once my Mhairi playthrough is over, i'll update her one more time and give the settings to you guys.  Mhairi has this rather specific nose-shape that I havent gotten down, and her facial features from the front needs work. The picture I worked with to make Mhairi was in an angle, so she only looks like Mhairi from an angle. But if you look at her straight on, she still looks like Mhairi, but its in the sort of the same way the last Male Human Preset character looks like Mr. Clean.

[Sarah1281]

Dragon Age 2 will take place around the same time Dragon Age: Origins is happening. Maybe Mhairi will be a permanent possible Recruit with her leaving the party like Morrigan did at the end?

She can't leave at the end, the end takes place a good nine years after she died. And she's a Ferelden knight so what would she be doing in Kirkwall?

[Homebound]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Dragon Age 2 will take place around the same time Dragon Age: Origins is happening. Maybe Mhairi will be a permanent possible Recruit with her leaving the party like Morrigan did at the end?

She can't leave at the end, the end takes place a good nine years after she died. And she's a Ferelden knight so what would she be doing in Kirkwall?

sight-seeing?

[Monglor]

She reminded me a lot of Loghain's female lieutenant from Origins.

[Homebound]

Screenshot of my Desktop...

Me working on Mhairi....

I used my Warden Mhairi for Awakening and the differences became real obvious...My Warden Mhairi's face is "too high" and "too sharp". Ive been working on this for a couple of hours now...Always ending up resetting..Now I know what Sander Cohen felt.

I think I'll just post what I got...Would you kindly pick it up from there?

Modifié par Just_mike, 13 août 2010 - 04:03 .

[Homebound]

Mhairi's face settings

[Sarah1281]

It would still be much easier to just copy her head over exactly...

[Homebound]

Sarah1281 wrote...

It would still be much easier to just copy her head over exactly...

You underestimate my simpleness. Using Ctrl+alt+Del on my computer is the most tech-savvy thing I've done on a PC.

[Zjarcal]

Sarah1281 wrote...

It would still be much easier to just copy her head over exactly...

I told him how to do it a few pages back but he wouldn't listen...

[Khavos]

SirOccam wrote...
Yes, but that's my point. Mhairi is all about joining the Wardens. Her story I buy. Anders I sort of buy since he's in the same situation DA:O characters were...they need to be Conscripted to save them from another fate.

But Oghren? Why can't he hang around and help the Wardens without having to risk killing himself in the Joining?
Nathaniel? Same thing...why isn't helping the Wardens enough to redeem his family's name? The only person he needs to impress is the Warden Commander anyway.
Velanna doesn't need to become a Warden...she could just have Wardens help her. I know if she asked, my Warden would have helped.
Sigrun, okay. She seems almost determined to die somehow.

You need Wardens.  Most of the reinforcements sent from Orlais died before you got there.  There's some suspicion that the Fifth Blight started in Ferelden precisely because of how few Wardens there were in the country at the time.  

You run into folks who prove themselves quite capable, and they ask to join.  There's no reason to turn them down.  Even if they didn't ask, realistically, you should RoS them, because you need good Wardens in Ferelden.   

[Zjarcal]

Since I was fooling around with the toolset swapping morphs I decided to create something to tease the guy who created this thread...

Here's Warden Mhairi staring at ... WynneMhairi?



Party of Mhairis!



Mhairis in action.



MorriMhairi?


And finally a tender moment between Mhairi and Alistair... (you can't see her face though...)

Modifié par Zjarcal, 15 août 2010 - 01:18 .

[Homebound]

Zjarcal wrote...

Since I was fooling around with the toolset swapping morphs I decided to create something to tease the guy who created this thread...

Here's Warden Mhairi staring at ... WynneMhairi?



Party of Mhairis!



Mhairis in action.



MorriMhairi?


And finally a tender moment between Mhairi and Alistair... (you can't see her face though...)

I dont get it.  Why isn't Alistair's face Mhairis?

And I told you before...Im not too good with modding..

If I was, I woulda modded my Fallout 3 with Mass Effect stuff.

Modifié par Just_mike, 15 août 2010 - 01:51 .