131 réponses à ce sujet

[Onyx Jaguar]

I still consider the loyalty missions side quests. They supersede anything in the original game

[Simpfan]

Mallissin wrote...

Simpfan wrote...

Nothing is more memorable than driving in a barely working tanking across a bland environment into the same bunkers over and over.

If I gave you six cookies that were all the same shape and color, yet each tasted very different and incredibly delicious, would you complain?

If I gave you two cookies that were the prettiest things you've ever seen and made you stop after every bite to admire. Wait, did I say admire...I meant you stop because you need to chug water to get them down since they taste like crap.

First scenario, ME1. Second scenario, ME2.

I'm greatly offended that everyone in ME2 has daddy issues. The producers really dropped the ball steering the writers.

Oh, and I'm on the ME1 sidequest crowd's side if no one noticed. I also enjoyed how you had the survivors after Virmire on the ship with you AND YOU COULD TALK TO THEM!

Virmire wasnt a sidequest.

You really are going to say the same 3 or 4 room bunkers on bland empty environments are more memorable than the stuff in ME2?
What game were you playing?

[Mallissin]

Simpfan wrote...
Virmire wasnt a sidequest.

You really are going to say the same 3 or 4 room bunkers on bland empty environments are more memorable than the stuff in ME2?
What game were you playing?

I know it wasn't a sidequest but they gave you something to consider afterwards. Emotional baggage not only from the decision you had to make, but a bunch of soldiers in your cargo hold to remind you. How many of the missions in ME2 did that?

And yah, I'll take cookie cutter environments if the writing is good. In a future where colonies are expanding quickly, I'd expect a lot of colonies to be made from ugly, cheap prefab units that resemble space-age trailer parks. You'll notice that Freedom's Progress and New Horizon had such things all over the place. Why can't you accept most bases are pre-fab too? Hell, half of the moon-base ideas are just that. Pre-fabs covered with space dirt.

[MTN Dew Fanatic]

If by memorable you mean etched into our brains from hours of doing side quests in the same underground lab, then yes they very, very memorable.

Modifié par MTN Dew Fanatic, 25 juillet 2010 - 10:14 .

[MTN Dew Fanatic]

If by memorable you mean etched into our brains from hours of doing a side quest in the same underground lab, then yes they a very, very memorable.

Modifié par MTN Dew Fanatic, 25 juillet 2010 - 10:12 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

Why would secret labs be pre-fabs? Or mines? Doesn't make much sense.



Sure building outposts if purchased but the rest, hell the moon base doesn't make sense either because that would be man made, the other ones being man made makes no sense.



And I also like the aspect of exploring and finding random crap to do better in ME 2 than 1 because of all the SC2000 urban renewel kit levels

[Mallissin]

Even secret labs have budgets. And not all of the mines were exactly alike. They moved the rocks around.

[Onyx Jaguar]

So Mod level development that mirrors the worst of old Doom levels is better than properly designed levels, just because some of them had a couple snippets of dialogue.



"We have the actors on contract for a bit lets record some dialogue"



"Eh, the levels aren't ready"



"Who cares, use the placeholder, we are being bought, game is shipping soon"

[Mallissin]

So, you think they should put all their resources into shallow aesthetics and dumb the writing down? Do you work for Bioware, Onyx? If not, APPLY!

[Onyx Jaguar]

This is how I see it



in ME 1 you had a bunch of hub quests

Then you had the space quests which used mainly recycled content



in ME 2, you have fewer hub quests

You had a few N7 missions, most of it used Email

Then you had 10 character specific side missions



ME 2 wins hands down. ME 1 was marketed as a game where you could get into adventures anywhere in space, land on a planet and find something to do. I did not feel that ME 1 lived up to that in any way. It was "Talk to guy on hub world" go to "X" location, report back. They were Fetch quests more or less.



Comparing it to Dragon Age. Dragon Age had mostly unique environments for the quests along with dialogue. Much better than ME 1.



However compare DA's DLC to ME 1 and ME 2's. Same problem as ME 1. RTO reused and repackaged the levels and was sold to us on the premise that "It has dialogue and a story"

So did Darkspawn Chronicles and Leliana's Song, but at least they were decent enough to change hte gameplay.



It wasn't acceptable in KOTOR 2 where you have reused hub worlds, levels (I mean a whole planet to explore and we are going back to the same place we went in KOTOR, at least there is dialogue!).



ME 1 and ME 2 buck this trend in DLC sidequests. ME 2 specifically because BDTS reused the same prefab while Pinnacle Station was mostly new.



Its bad game design pure and simple



To put this in a film analogy this would be like taking the script to Children of Men and filming it all the in same room. I'd rather watch 2001: A Space Odyssey

[statesman1114]

Awakening was a whole new campaign with full voiceovers from both new and old squadmates that lasted about half the length of the full game (no easy feat). And I thought the story was actually a little better, with the smaller number of squadmates being better for me, since I got more attached to them. I could care less about Wynne, give me Anders any day.



The problem with Mass Effect 2 was that despite the enhanced quality in the sidemissions, there was far less voice acting. I found entire story arcs where not a single person spoke anything more than generic battle cries.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Well Awakening was a full expansion, it is pretty much DA2, I wouldn't call that a DLC. Its a sequel not a sidequest

[MTN Dew Fanatic]

statesman1114 wrote...

Awakening was a whole new campaign with full voiceovers from both new and old squadmates that lasted about half the length of the full game (no easy feat). And I thought the story was actually a little better, with the smaller number of squadmates being better for me, since I got more attached to them. I could care less about Wynne, give me Anders any day.

The problem with Mass Effect 2 was that despite the enhanced quality in the sidemissions, there was far less voice acting. I found entire story arcs where not a single person spoke anything more than generic battle cries.

It's better than the same mine/cave, the same undergound lab, the same above ground facility, and the same derelict space ship.

[statesman1114]

MTN Dew Fanatic wrote...

statesman1114 wrote...

Awakening was a whole new campaign with full voiceovers from both new and old squadmates that lasted about half the length of the full game (no easy feat). And I thought the story was actually a little better, with the smaller number of squadmates being better for me, since I got more attached to them. I could care less about Wynne, give me Anders any day.

The problem with Mass Effect 2 was that despite the enhanced quality in the sidemissions, there was far less voice acting. I found entire story arcs where not a single person spoke anything more than generic battle cries.

It's better than the same mine/cave, the same undergound lab, the same above ground facility, and the same derelict space ship.

At least in ME1, some of the sidemissions had dialogue. Some didn't, but in ME2, only loyalty missions seemed to have any at all. I would rather go through the same areas occasionally then be subjected to total silence. The biggest draw of the bloody game is the dialogue, at least to me.

[Tooneyman]

worm_burner wrote...

Give us Hackett back!!

5th fleet out

^this and out!

[Lyrandori]

I liked Admiral Hackett, no doubt, but generally speaking I disagree, for me the N7 missions (side quests, to me anyway) of ME2 are better in all aspects than ME1's, with the exception of the ME1 quest in relation to Admiral Kahoku (in my opinion), most ME1 N7 assignments were very generic.

[implodinggoat]

wulf3n wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

I think the main problem in both games is that there is this big red line between main and side missions. Hub worlds are for main quests and have some small side missions, and the uncharted worlds are for the 'big' side missions. If Bioware can create some big side missions for the hub worlds and ME3, I would certainly approve.

How can you really have a "big" mission on a hub world?

And even then some of the biggest side missions were acquired or involved a hub world.

Consider the mission where you first meet Tali in ME1.  You go down to Chora's Den and normally its full of patrons; but when you go down this time the place has been cleared out and you find yourself fighting your way through it using the bar and a few kicked over tables for cover then you open up a small section thats been sealed off until this point and you have a fight with the bar's owner Fist.  Then you leave the bar and have a fight in a back alley, all of which occurs inside the normal map of the Citadel hub world.

I would have liked to see some more of that in ME2; for example in the mission where you protect the Patriarch it would have been really boss if you had to fight off the Mercs who were trying to kill him in the streets of Omega or even better inside the Afterlife club itself.  Instead you just got a little cutscene.

A handful of missions that have Shepard getting in a fight inside a hub world (preferably accompanied by civilians fleeing in terror) would have been a nice change of pace in ME2.  I understand why they removed the ability to draw your gun inside a hub since it always seemed odd that no one would flee in terror when I started shooting; but adding a few scripted sections where the combat controls open up again and you get in a firefight in the streets would have given the hub worlds a little more life.

[implodinggoat]

Mister Mida wrote...

Collider wrote...

I hardly remember any of the sidequests from KOTOR. Then again, I didn't do that one where you get put into some weird dimension if you look into the box...there is a sidequest like that, right?

Yes there's a side quest where you need to deliver a weird box to the Hutt on Tatooine. I recommend you do that one. It's quite interesting, if you look into the box that is .

I loved that one, really a case of curiosity killing the Jedi.

The little side mission where all the little critters infest your ship was pretty cool too.  Seeing the Normandy crew freaking out because there are Pyjaks crawling all over the ship would have been quite entertaining, particularly if it was accompanied by a few indignant comment from EDI, somethink like.

Shepard:  "We've got to git rid of these damned Pyjaks.  EDI's gotta be pissed off having a bunch of monkies crawling around in her ducts."

EDI:  "Since the crew came on board, I've gotten quite used to having monkies crawling around in my ducts...that was a joke Shepard."

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Onyx you went back to the old avatar... the world is better.

[Intax]

Mallissin wrote...

Simpfan wrote...

Nothing is more memorable than driving in a barely working tanking across a bland environment into the same bunkers over and over.

If I gave you six cookies that were all the same shape and color, yet each tasted very different and incredibly delicious, would you complain?

If I gave you two cookies that were the prettiest things you've ever seen and made you stop after every bite to admire. Wait, did I say admire...I meant you stop because you need to chug water to get them down since they taste like crap.

First scenario, ME1. Second scenario, ME2.

I'm greatly offended that everyone in ME2 has daddy issues. The producers really dropped the ball steering the writers.

Oh, and I'm on the ME1 sidequest crowd's side if no one noticed. I also enjoyed how you had the survivors after Virmire on the ship with you AND YOU COULD TALK TO THEM!

What a horrible analogy. I'll work with it though. Your ME1 cookies are a bit off, its not just six cookies that tasted different and delicious. Its a whole bathtub full of cookies (some good some not, almost all identical though). The first few were great, by the time you finish the whole tub though you're just sick.

On the other hand, the ME2 cookies are just run of the mill chocolate chip, but its only a plate of them. You eat, you're satisfied but move on to bigger and better things.

[KOKitten]

I thought Admiral Hackett was more memorable than the e-mails. 

I don't think the two-storied bunker, three-chambered mine and generic spaceship, which were reused in each ME1 side mission, were memorable at all.  The two-storied bunker looked so boring and it appeared on every planet.   

[Ninniach Lina]

Mesina2 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I agree with the OP about this. I always have. I am one of those people who cannot really enjoy combat, no matter how improved it is, without some good story support. Without it I become bored. What is the purpose?

Dude, this is a game not movie. Focus on game is gameplay and combat is gameplay. Talking to the people in game is not gameplay, it's interaction.

This is why Heavy Rain is not game but interactive movie( great one).

Gaming is a story telling platform.

[smudboy]

Ninniach Lina wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I agree with the OP about this. I always have. I am one of those people who cannot really enjoy combat, no matter how improved it is, without some good story support. Without it I become bored. What is the purpose?

Dude, this is a game not movie. Focus on game is gameplay and combat is gameplay. Talking to the people in game is not gameplay, it's interaction.

This is why Heavy Rain is not game but interactive movie( great one).

Gaming is a story telling platform.

Everything is a story telling platform.

Nightwriter is a flying car platform fueled by broccoli.

Modifié par smudboy, 26 juillet 2010 - 01:35 .

[ACSSolver]

I would most certainly prefer a mix of ME1 and ME2 style sidequests.



In ME1, I liked the Mako and the planets, mostly. Beautiful skies, driving around under all that really gave me an outer space feeling. I just wish the Mako would overdrive a bit less and the planets could really have used flatter, easier to navigate terrain.



Story wise, the ME1 sidequests were mostly superior. Admiral Hackett usually provided some background as to what's going on, and there was dialogue in the quest itself, with perhaps unique squad member dialogue where it fit, like Kaidan and those L2 biotics. Better backstories generally than going in to disturb merc operations in ME2.



The environments were far superior in ME2 of course, as ME1 would have literally identical bases, while ME2 had something unique on each N7 mission. And I liked how ME2 used datapads or audio logs to convey information as opposed to ME1 popup with a paragraph of text describing what you discover.



Ideally, I'd prefer a mix of the two games. Give me some side quests that need driving, some that don't. Some where the "action" is inside a structure, some where it's on the planet's surface. Most importantly, give the quests a backstory and give most of them some dialogue. Now that would be great sidequesting.



And no, I can't see ME2 loyalty missions as side quests. The game itself classifies them as Missions, not Assignments. They're definitely part of the main story, ME2 is about building the team mostly. Loyalty missions of course easily trump ME1 and ME2 side quests quality wise, though there's a significant number of characters that have an issue with their children or parents - Miranda, Thane, Jacob, Samara, Tali.