40 réponses à ce sujet

[gmgo]

It appears, as mentioned on an interview, that Bioware is developing two combat system: One for consoles more action oriented, and one for the PC, which with the Keyboard and Mouse they can control better the classic tactic of pausing and giving directives.

Now I am primary a PC users, because of the mods and everything (and in my country, PC games are way much cheaper than Console games for some stupid reason) so when a game is multi-platform, I usually get Computer version. However, I prefer the idea of a more action oriented gameplay.

DA:O combat system was really "meh" to me. I didn't like it. I enjoyed the game for it's story, choices and outcomes, but the overall combat system was really a down to me.

I know many of you may not be interested on having a "more action oriented" gameplay, and sticking with the classics. But that's why i'd like to have the choice of it, at least on the PC, "Play Tactical RPG" or "Play Action RPG".

[Rubbish Hero]

Yes, please consolize the game more. Make the UI interchangeable between control pad and mouse and keyboard with big chunky console text so we can read 5 foot away. Also get rid of AA, it's only one when you have to
force it through nvidia control panel. Game could also do with checkpoint system instead of quick-save. Also change field of view to something really narrow, player see too much.

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 25 juillet 2010 - 11:28 .

[Arttis]

They improved combat for both versions.

Its just that console is more combat hack and slash than PC.

[dan107]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

Yes, please consolize the game more. Make the UI interchangeable between control pad and mouse and keyboard. Also get rid of AA, it's only one when you have to force it through nvidia control panel. Most pc gamers want console gamers, I sign up after magical dragon chased over rainbow of ludicrous.

Where exactly does this notion that action=console=bad come from? Action games, as all other games, originated on computers long before consoles. There are plenty of exellent PC action based games.

"Consolization" is really only a problem when the graphics and interface of a PC game are unnecessarily limited to work with the inferior control schemes and processing and memory capabilities of consoles. It has absolutely nothing to do with the style of combat.

And I agree with the OP 100%. I can't wait for someone to make an unapologetic action game with the depth of story and companion interactions of a Bioware RPG. It would be the best of both world IMO.

Modifié par dan107, 25 juillet 2010 - 11:31 .

[Rubbish Hero]

dan107 wrote...Where exactly does this notion that action=console=bad come from?

Rainbow 6: Vegas, Rainbow 6: Lockdown, Rainbow 6: Vegas 2, Operation Flashpoint 2, Oblivion, Bioshock, Xcom: Shoot People In  Face Edition, Ghost Recon: Future Soldier, Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, Jade Empire, Fear 2, Fallout 3 and my balls, which are big.

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 25 juillet 2010 - 11:33 .

[Arttis]

rubbish hero is an elitist PC user.Anything console = bad to her.

moving on.

The PC combat is probably going to stay the same due to time constraints.

[Arttis]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

dan107 wrote...Where exactly does this notion that action=console=bad come from?

Rainbow 6: Vegas, Rainbow 6: Lockdown, Rainbow 6: Vegas 2, Operation Flashpoint 2, Oblivion, Bioshock, Xcom: Shoot People In  Face Edition, Ghost Recon: Future Soldier, Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, Jade Empire, Fear 2, Fallout 3 and my balls, which are big.

You just named like 1% of all  good games.
Oblivion was damn fun.
Mass effect 1 and 2 was pretty fun also.
never played bioshock or rainbow or future soldier or fallout or fear.
Jade empire was pretty dang good also.
Rubbish hero is rubbish.

[dan107]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

dan107 wrote...Where exactly does this notion that action=console=bad come from?

Rainbow 6: Vegas, Rainbow 6: Lockdown, Rainbow 6: Vegas 2, Operation Flashpoint 2, Oblivion, Bioshock, Xcom: Shoot People In  Face Edition, Ghost Recon: Future Soldier, Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, Jade Empire, Fear 2, Fallout 3 and my balls, which are big.

And? How does spouting off a list of games and mentioning your (most likely quite small) balls answer my question?

[Rubbish Hero]

Arttis wrote...

rubbish hero is an elitist PC user.Anything console = bad to her.
moving on.

Not true. Platforms, Beat em ups, JRPG's and racing games better on  consoles without pc gamepad. Even then feel more comfortable on consoles than pc .Because company's basically greedy as hell, games get ill-fitted  across multiple platforms even if not fit well, Like Dragon Age, for  example. On on console to maximize profit because console easy money, likewise with sims 3 and Tropico 3. Crap on consoles, need canceled, forever.

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 25 juillet 2010 - 11:39 .

[swirlwind]

gmgo wrote...

Now I am primary a PC users, because of the mods and everything (and in my country, PC games are way much cheaper than Console games for some stupid reason) so when a game is multi-platform, I usually get Computer version. However, I prefer the idea of a more action oriented gameplay.

There are a lot of action oriented games out there, some even with fairly interesting stories. However, there aren't many strategic RPGs. BioWare is already making more action oriented versions of DA2 for XBOX 360 and PS3, but the truth is, a lot of people enjoyed Origins because of the combination of a good story and strategic fights. I would very much prefer them not to make the PC version any more action oriented than it already is, because that would ruin a good thing for a lot of players out there, including myself. Requests such as the one you're presenting here make me worry that soon there won't be any games for people like me to enjoy.

[Rubbish Hero]

dan107 wrote...
And? How does spouting off a list of games

Please stop asking "how does" every time you get factual based excellent explanation.
Consoles dumb games down, it's time to get over it and move on.

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 25 juillet 2010 - 11:40 .

[Krilral]

I would certainly like an "action gameplay" option for the pc.

[joriandrake]

you can't be serius

[DaringMoosejaw]

dan107 wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...

Yes, please consolize the game more. Make the UI interchangeable between control pad and mouse and keyboard. Also get rid of AA, it's only one when you have to force it through nvidia control panel. Most pc gamers want console gamers, I sign up after magical dragon chased over rainbow of ludicrous.

Where exactly does this notion that action=console=bad come from? Action games, as all other games, originated on computers long before consoles. There are plenty of exellent PC action based games.

"Consolization" is really only a problem when the graphics and interface of a PC game are unnecessarily limited to work with the inferior control schemes and processing and memory capabilities of consoles. It has absolutely nothing to do with the style of combat.

And I agree with the OP 100%. I can't wait for someone to make an unapologetic action game with the depth of story and companion interactions of a Bioware RPG. It would be the best of both world IMO.

It's an unfortunate psychological trait. Lock a bunch of people in a room, half of them wearing blue bracelets and the other half wearing red bracelets that neither can remove. After awhile, I'm sure there'll be some ridiculous unfounded rivalry about how anyone wearing a blue bracelet is an idiot and anyone wearing a red bracelet is a loser. It's part of what causes racism, I'd imagine. People like to identify with something and take on to antagonize anyone who they're in a perceived rivalry with. You see it in sports teams, World of Warcraft (Alliance vs. Horde, Raiders vs. Casual), cultures, genders, nationalities, you name it. They need to puff themselves up by praising their chosen attribute while shooting down its rivalry.

This whole PC vs. Console thing is similar. PC-players think their choice somehow makes them super-intelligent, and they think anyone who'd prefer a console doesn't like thinking when they play games. Console-players think their choice means they have lives, and think PC-players are a bunch of nerd losers in their basements griping about roleplaying.

This only applies to people who engage in the rivalry, as there thankfully exist people who aren't goddamned petty jerkoffs and don't give a damn about video game rivalries. You're seeing all this anger directed at consoles because these certain PC folks are apparently convinced that Bioware now favors the console players by making the gameplay 'dumbed down' and changing it, so thus are lashing out at them.

Modifié par DaringMoosejaw, 25 juillet 2010 - 11:44 .

[dan107]

Rubbish Hero wrote...
factual based excellent explanation.

Quote of the week right there. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

I think you're trolling on purpose now though, so I won't argue with you any more.

Modifié par dan107, 25 juillet 2010 - 11:57 .

[Khayness]

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

This whole PC vs. Console thing is similar. PC-players think their choice somehow makes them super-intelligent, and they think anyone who'd prefer a console doesn't like thinking when they play games. Console-players think their choice means they have lives, and think PC-players are a bunch of nerd losers in their basements griping about roleplaying.

On PC we have more ways to interact with the game, making it more complex (zmg more thinking), saving us time (no powerwheel and such).

Facerolling 1-0 + shift 1-0 + ctr 1-0 in NWN 1/2 would drive anyone nuts who is accustomed to the gamepad.
And so is setting every goddamn interaction to one button, removing doubleclick and codex/squad/journal hotkeys, making it weird (and inefficient) to play ME2 after a nicely ported ME1.

Yes it feels like being a Glorious PC Gaming Master Race™

[dan107]

swirlwind wrote...
There are a lot of action oriented games out there, some even with fairly interesting stories. However, there aren't many strategic RPGs. BioWare is already making more action oriented versions of DA2 for XBOX 360 and PS3, but the truth is, a lot of people enjoyed Origins because of the combination of a good story and strategic fights. I would very much prefer them not to make the PC version any more action oriented than it already is, because that would ruin a good thing for a lot of players out there, including myself. Requests such as the one you're presenting here make me worry that soon there won't be any games for people like me to enjoy.

That's a fair point. I would just point out that while there are few strategic RPGs with deep stories, I'm not aware of a single action game that's ever been made that features the truly deep and reactive stories found in Bio RPGs. Also action does not need to be mindless hack-and-slash. You could still have a lot of tactical and strategic considerations involved in a twich based system. The primary difference would be that the action is more fast paced and requires you to think on your feet. I really think that if such a system were properly implemented, it would be a lot more enjoyable than many people think.

[soteria]

dan107 wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...
factual based excellent explanation.

Quote of the week right there. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png

I think you're trolling on purpose now though, so I won't argue with you any more.

Most of his posts are fairly trollish, but if you learn not to take them seriously, they're pretty funny.  The comment in another thread about Blizzard being "king of RPG/MMO/RTS, and what Bioware king of?  Cooking," was just priceless.

[dan107]

Khayness wrote...

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

This whole PC vs. Console thing is similar. PC-players think their choice somehow makes them super-intelligent, and they think anyone who'd prefer a console doesn't like thinking when they play games. Console-players think their choice means they have lives, and think PC-players are a bunch of nerd losers in their basements griping about roleplaying.

On PC we have more ways to interact with the game, making it more complex (zmg more thinking), saving us time (no powerwheel and such).

Facerolling 1-0 + shift 1-0 + ctr 1-0 in NWN 1/2 would drive anyone nuts who is accustomed to the gamepad.
And so is setting every goddamn interaction to one button, removing doubleclick and codex/squad/journal hotkeys, making it weird (and inefficient) to play ME2 after a nicely ported ME1.

Yes it feels like being a Glorious PC Gaming Master Race™

I don't think that anyone is saying that the PC version shouldn't take full advantage of the undoubtedly superior mouse and keyboard controls.

[Arttis]

Khayness wrote...

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

This whole PC vs. Console thing is similar. PC-players think their choice somehow makes them super-intelligent, and they think anyone who'd prefer a console doesn't like thinking when they play games. Console-players think their choice means they have lives, and think PC-players are a bunch of nerd losers in their basements griping about roleplaying.

On PC we have more ways to interact with the game, making it more complex (zmg more thinking), saving us time (no powerwheel and such).

Facerolling 1-0 + shift 1-0 + ctr 1-0 in NWN 1/2 would drive anyone nuts who is accustomed to the gamepad.
And so is setting every goddamn interaction to one button, removing doubleclick and codex/squad/journal hotkeys, making it weird (and inefficient) to play ME2 after a nicely ported ME1.

Yes it feels like being a Glorious PC Gaming Master Race™

PC sucks for complex action oriented games without resorting to the Console control and interface.
ULTIMATELY they are just machines we use to play games.Get over it.

[Arttis]

soteria wrote...

dan107 wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...
factual based excellent explanation.

Quote of the week right there. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png

I think you're trolling on purpose now though, so I won't argue with you any more.

Most of his posts are fairly trollish, but if you learn not to take them seriously, they're pretty funny.  The comment in another thread about Blizzard being "king of RPG/MMO/RTS, and what Bioware king of?  Cooking," was just priceless.

Seriously people take some posts seriously?
Never take the internet forums seriously...I thought that was common sense.

[soteria]

Also action does not need to be mindless hack-and-slash. You could still have a lot of tactical and strategic considerations involved in a twich based system. The primary difference would be that the action is more fast paced and requires you to think on your feet. I really think that if such a system were properly implemented, it would be a lot more enjoyable than many people think.

FFXIII tried to be that game. The combat looks and initially feels pretty "twitch" because of all the actions that take place in a given round. Battles are actually fairly tactical, requiring the player to shift focus and change fluidly throughout the fight. Thing is, they gave the player the option to choose between manually selecting abilities or allowing the game to choose them automatically (with guidance). The cool thing was the game was actually highly intelligent about choosing the right abilities to use on auto. The bad thing was, it made trying to choose them manually feel like a losing proposition because you were slower and more error-prone than the computer. So, FFXIII could be "twitchy" and tactical at the same time, but only if the player avoided using the auto function.

[tommcc]

It's hard enough for Bioware to cater for the fans of one genre, let alone two. I'd prefer that they make an excellent RPG with action elements, or an excellent action game with RPG elements... not two separate games.

[Khayness]

Arttis wrote...

PC sucks for complex action oriented games without resorting to the Console control and interface.

Elaborate please. I fail to see that an UI designed for a 23 button controller (I just popped up a pic and counted them, don't know if it's the right number) can be more complex and fitting as the keyboard+mouse combo.

[Arttis]

Request for elaboration has been rejected.

All you have is my word...deal with it.