80 réponses à ce sujet

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

It sounds good to me! A fresh and new look at things. Has there ever been an RPG with an unreliable narrator, or even several? I do like it in books, it makes for unexpected twists when you find out about it.



Whatever they have planned, I'm sure it will be well-thought out, and it will all click when the game is released.



Allthough it will be hard to top Dragon Age: Origins... if not impossible. That game is near perfect.

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

Vandrayke wrote...

lol yeah I'm sure they want to make everyone really mad after they play the game. That'll sell a lot of copies based on recommendations

Yeah, this.

Seriously, they aren't going to risk angering the fandom. It will be good.

[Roland Aseph]

dan107 wrote...

KethWolfheart wrote...
First it could be fun to be playing out a character who becomes a legend, where you, as Hawke, know the actual truth. You get the fun of seeing how the Narrators think things happen. Second since this is not based on fact so it gives more freedom to the player. Just because the Narrators say this happened THIS WAY doesn't actually make it so - you the player will know the real truth since you are actually Hawke

If that's how it's done, that's fine by me. The problem is that the impression I get from the previews is that you don't know the actual truth. You play the story you're told, not the story that actually happened. Hawke, the character, knows what happened to him obviously. But you, the player, only know what the narrator tells you. That's where this concept starts to trouble me.

Roland Aseph wrote...

For some reason all I keep going back to is "The Princess Bride", now as much fun as that was (and still is) it's not the tone or experience I wanted with a DA game

The devs cited Princess Bride as an example in several interviews.

Didn't see that somehow..../sigh, figures

thx 

[Bugzehat]

dan107 wrote...

KethWolfheart wrote...
First it could be fun to be playing out a character who becomes a legend, where you, as Hawke, know the actual truth. You get the fun of seeing how the Narrators think things happen. Second since this is not based on fact so it gives more freedom to the player. Just because the Narrators say this happened THIS WAY doesn't actually make it so - you the player will know the real truth since you are actually Hawke

If that's how it's done, that's fine by me. The problem is that the impression I get from the previews is that you don't know the actual truth. You play the story you're told, not the story that actually happened. Hawke, the character, knows what happened to him obviously. But you, the player, only know what the narrator tells you. That's where this concept starts to trouble me.

I actually got the exact opposite impression from reading some dev comments. From what they've been saying, it looks like the "exaggerated" bits are only a small part of the game, and they were just showing a section like that in the preview to demonstrate the concept. I think for most of the game, we are going to be playing the story that actually happened. See these quotes from David Gaider:

Was the combat we showed in the demo over the top? Certainly. As we've
mentioned elsewhere, that part of the tale is a brief glimpse at the
"exaggerated" legend of Hawke-- he kills monsters with a single
stroke, slicing each one in two with a single slice of his sword, and
farts lightning bolts out of his ass. Is the whole game like that?
Certainly not-- that's simply part of the set-up.

I don't want to make promises, considering there's still lots of
tweaking to go on the specifics, but the idea is that you're looking at a
version of Hawke that has his level pumped and is doing major amounts
of damage with the gore effects turned way higher than they normally
would be. Which is not normal, no, and hence Cassandra's reaction.

The
idea for that as a demo is to show the concept, and for it to be a
fast-paced and exciting demo (as Mike mentioned elsewhere), but that's quite how regular combat plays. But,
again, I'm sure you'll all see that for yourselves soon enough. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png

I think the point is that it's up to the player to determine the tale
that Varric tells, and how he paints the hero. There are elements where
the nature of the unreliable narrator comes into play, but I'm leery to
get into that at present. Occasional exaggeration isn't meant to replace
the fact that, at it's heart, Varric's tale is a true one.

[Taoist09]

Eh, could be good or bad, depends on the implementation, whichever way you look at it it's deus ex machina regardless, one character going 'A happened', then another character clarifying that A did not actually happen, but B did. Then, typically the last time, by the end, one of the pivotal figures goes, neither B nor A happened, but C and D did...and oh my god! We have a plot twist which can be as silly as the writers want it to be since the story's told relying on subjective accounts of these characters.



Honestly, though, it's up in the air, Bioware always delivers on story, so I implicitly trust them on this account. The only thing that concerns me now is the alleged action oriented gameplay, which, if turns out to be true, will be a pain.

[Maverick827]

I could do without the 300-esque combat, but it's not like jumping on top of ogres and spinning around to cut off an enemy's head is very realistic combat as is. I would much rather have the embellishing take place during the recanting of the tale, though, rather than as you play. It would be interesting to see how a dwarven wordsmith alters your exploits after you play through it normally.

[Taoist09]

Maverick827 wrote...

I could do without the 300-esque combat, but it's not like jumping on top of ogres and spinning around to cut off an enemy's head is very realistic combat as is. I would much rather have the embellishing take place during the recanting of the tale, though, rather than as you play. It would be interesting to see how a dwarven wordsmith alters your exploits after you play through it normally.

Kinda hijacking the post there, but I think what has many people concerned isn't the over-the-top animation, it's the emphasis on simple hack-n-slash gameplay, rather than the tactical chessboard Origins was.

[Roland Aseph]

If this "unreliable narrative" is at the beginning of the game and basically "introduces" the Hawke character and THEN you play the real deal throughout the rest of the game, then that's a bit different and not such a drastic step.

[Maverick827]

Taoist09 wrote...

Maverick827 wrote...

I could do without the 300-esque combat, but it's not like jumping on top of ogres and spinning around to cut off an enemy's head is very realistic combat as is. I would much rather have the embellishing take place during the recanting of the tale, though, rather than as you play. It would be interesting to see how a dwarven wordsmith alters your exploits after you play through it normally.

Kinda hijacking the post there, but I think what has many people concerned isn't the over-the-top animation, it's the emphasis on simple hack-n-slash gameplay, rather than the tactical chessboard Origins was.

Oh, I'm not worried about that at all, because I'm intelligent and realize how absolutely zero reliable information points in that direction.

[ScreamingPalm]

Roland Aseph wrote...


So you could very well get to the End of the game only to find out that everything you just did and experienced was fake and just an  embellished "story/fable" from someones faulty memories.

Final Scene:

(sitting around fire at night)

"And childern, that's the story of Hawke...what a magnificent hero he was...ok off to bed"

Cut to CGI Trailer:

Be sure to watch out for DA3: Hawke - The REAL Story!

On Sale for $59.99 4/2012 

Yeah as long as this isn't the case, I think it's a pretty cool idea. Sounds like DLC could probably be various short story "rumors" of Hawke told from various NPC's.

[C9316]

Great, just great now that DA2 is going to be told in a story that means that hawke's story is going to be possibly exaggerated to a certain degree.

[Wynne]

filaminstrel wrote...

I just hope there's a part where Hawke meets Varric and Varric is, like, three stories tall and has a dragon in a headlock.

*lmao* Oh my GOD! That would be the purest win EVER!

[Taoist09]

Maverick827 wrote...
Oh, I'm not worried about that at all, because I'm intelligent and realize how absolutely zero reliable information points in that direction.

I wouldn't be so sure about either of those statements, since it has been mentioned numerous times that at the very least Bioware will give the same amount of attention to the action-oriented mechanic as it will to the tactical aspect. Read this and see if you feel the same; www.1up.com/do/previewPage

Modifié par Taoist09, 25 juillet 2010 - 11:08 .

[SuperSugars]

I am SO excited about this change in the storytelling. Don't hate on me BUT I love that in Mass Effect Shepard has his likes spoken and he responds to the people around him. I felt more connected to my Shepard than my Dragon Age charactors. I felt like Shepard was more an extension of me than my Dragon Age Mage (my main). I cannot wait to play this next BioWare masterpiece.

[Roland Aseph]

Well, so much for the "unreliable narrative" being only a way to introduce the Hawke character



From the "What we know so far" thread/sticky:



“Dragon Age II has a framed narrative structure, which means that the exploits of Hawke occured in the past, but are being retold in the present.” [Print magazine]

[Anarya]

Lord_Saulot wrote...

To say "lazy writing" is outright ridiculous. An unreliable narrator is far more difficult to write than a straightforward narrative because there are multiple layers that have to be accounted for. If anything, this means the writing will have to be more difficult and complex.

In any case, this is very much in line with some of the decisions they made in the first game. Most of the codex entries were written as opinions by characters in game, and elements like the Chantry religion were always framed as a matter of "this is what is believed" in order to make clear the perspective element. An narration influenced by the interests of the narrator (is there another kind?) plays up many of these elements, which were one of the main things that Dragon Age had improved on over the D&D games that Bioware had done and made their franchise distinctive.

This is probably one of the elements of the game that I am most excited about.

Totally agree with this. This has the potential to be completely awesome. Of course, that depends on how it's all implemented and it's a bit soon to say whether they pulled it off well or not, but I'm very excited by the possibilities and this is a change I'm really looking forward to seeing for myself.

[Sabariel]

The whole game is told in flashbacks? Or just certain parts?

[Zanderat]

Teh Chozen Wun wrote...

That's why people voted for Obama wasn't it? Lol.

Ya.  And how well has that turned out? 

[sporky1]

My opinion: Its a risk worth taking. If people don't like it, I do not think it will hurt the game to the point of being unplayable. If done well, it will add layers to the story (maybe the guy is lying? Did it really happen this way?). I have also played very few games with the narrative structure. I'm pumped for it

[Anarya]

jln.francisco wrote...

Wynne wrote...

filaminstrel wrote...

I just hope there's a part where Hawke meets Varric and Varric is, like, three stories tall and has a dragon in a headlock.

*lmao* Oh my GOD! That would be the purest win EVER!

If he's anything like Oghren that's a totally possible situation.


I have a question. Has the relationship between the Inquisitor and Varric been explained? Is it like the two sitting down to dinner or is it more like an actual interrogation with Varric being kept in a prison or something?

We don't really know, but I would guess somewhere in between, leaning toward the latter. It hasn't really been clarified yet though.

[Blessed Silence]

Seeing this topic and reading the article in GI has me slightly confused. Let me write the sentence I'm talking about.



When describing how Varric speaks to a female Chantry Seeker about the action Hawke took to escape from Lothering " ... and Varric reluctantly tells the tale. At least, he tells the version he wants the Seeker to hear, and the scene fades to Lothering and shifts to Hawke's persepective."



Is this bad? I don't know. Is the narration to throw off the Seeker but when the scene shifts to Hawke we see what really happened? Something like this is really hard to make an informed decision about until it is seen in action.

[UltraBoy360]

Yeah, the question is whether the skewed-perspective/amped-up action (ie. you're playing Hawke from the narrator's perspective, exaggeration and all) that is described by the Comic Con goers is for this one scene or whether the narrator's perspectives influence gameplay throughout.



I'm torn, I like the style in a narrative sense, but have concerns about my ability to own a character that is being narrated by someone else. I actually really liked Leliana's Song and liked how the story differed from her story to the Warden. I think I'll be OK with it.

[Arttis]

Roland Aseph wrote...

If this "unreliable narrative" is at the beginning of the game and basically "introduces" the Hawke character and THEN you play the real deal throughout the rest of the game, then that's a bit different and not such a drastic step.

I think its more it skips you along and you will never really know what exactly happens.I think its up to preference.I probably will dislike it.Anything that gives you a story then some hwo says it may be true/some parts may be true...is really annoying...Of course the entire thing is fantasy but still this sort of writing screams laziness to me.
If they let you in with what really happened I would be fine.But with a game with numerous endings and many choices I will likley get confused unless they make it obvious.SO need to play to find out for sure.Of course it wont make the game unplayable for me as I  very rarely encounter great games anyways.
So far the only games I cannot endure are shin megami tensei games...its just too much tedious grind for me.
Will I buy this game?...depends on info coming out such as toolset and so on.As of right now it still seems good enough for a buy.
Well thats enough from me and this new narrative.

Modifié par Arttis, 26 juillet 2010 - 09:41 .

[nikki191]

honestly i think it will be a case of : storyteller" and then hawke entered the village to solve the mystery he had heard" fade to black