123 réponses à ce sujet

[Water Dumple]

I disagree with your specific reasons against the character, but some of the fans are enough to make me hate her as well...



Rationality seems to have a degenerating amount of influence on this board.

[epoch_]

I like her. I just think she's a poor love interest.

[Calculatrice]

These threads never end up well...

[KendallX23]

well tali is a nice character...and good squadmate...but a very poor love interest...and her views on the geth are wrong....but i never want to kill her...she is like a litlle sister to my Sheps...male and female chars

[PrinceLionheart]

I disagree in the fact that I actually liked the changes Tali had from ME1 to ME2. In the first game she was basically just a walking encylopedia of Quarian Culture. So I never really understood why so many people loved her. I liked her a lot more in ME2 though because she gained a far more assertive personality.



But still, the Tali Romance plain sucked. It was nothing but fanservice for Tali-Fanboys, which, while good for them, I'm not among them so I felt it was lacking. That and I agree that she came off rather *****y towards Jacob, so I also snickered when he made the A.I. jab.

[xlavaina]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

I disagree in the fact that I actually liked the changes Tali had from ME1 to ME2. In the first game she was basically just a walking encylopedia of Quarian Culture. So I never really understood why so many people loved her. I liked her a lot more in ME2 though because she gained a far more assertive personality.

But still, the Tali Romance plain sucked. It was nothing but fanservice for Tali-Fanboys, which, while good for them, I'm not among them so I felt it was lacking. That and I agree that she came off rather *****y towards Jacob, so I also snickered when he made the A.I. jab.

I know what you're saying, and I partly agree. The romance with Tali could seem a little... misplaced. I personally don't think so but I see where you're coming from. Honestly though, I think Bioware did a good job with the romance, since it was more believable due to your adventures in the previous game.

Yeah and about the AI jab, I would have loved to see her flip out or try and sabotage EDI. What if she worked with Joker... hmm...

[Universitas_C]

epoch_ wrote...

I like her. I just think she's a poor love interest.

This.

[V-rex]

To be fair I can see why people do like Tali. She's sweet and charming and has a nice personality but I honestly much preferred her in the first Mass Effect because she was strong and decisive. That said while I always liked her as a sort of little sister figure I can't say I was a huge fan of her romance subplot because it was all just about sex (intimacy) and she just seemed a little too weak all of a sudden and became like a submissive fan-girl to the greatness of Shepard, plus all the conversations put together last about eight minutes, that's the average length of a single conversation with a Love Interest in Mass Effect 1.

Point is, there wasn't as much character development given to how she has feelings for Shepard and even less of an explanation of where Shepard suddenly gets feelings for her, it's just sort of... announced. True she's still greatly characterized in both games but the romance itself doesn't really evolve past the issue of 'the immune system'.



Point is, it felt rushed and not very well implemented and it kind of compromised her character by turning her into a sort of vapid damsel in distress type who is drunk on Shepard's manliness and of whom the only real conflict is her immune system of which is resolved alarmingly fast.

Plus I didn't like how she was always sweet and always vulnerable without any notable flaws or moments of strength the whole way through the romance until the final scene. It felt like an idealized version of how a girlfriend 'should' be. Completely in love and doting towards her man, it's Twilight but this time from the view of the Vampire.



I still LIKE Tali a lot and I can understand why people would want to go the extra mile with her and I mean no offense to anyone who enjoyed the romance with her (I admit there still were some rather cute moments and her loyalty mission brought tears to my eyes) but overall I would have preferred the romance to be better developed. But still maybe I'm just biased because my heart belongs to a certain Operations Chief, who knows.



Still, I like Tali a hell of a lot, enough that I worked like crazy to keep her alive in the Suicide Mission and that counts for something. I like her, just can't say I was really 'wowed' by her romance and while the idea of dating a Quarian with the whole immune system problem makes for potentially good drama overall I just prefer to think of her as a friend and not much else.

[PrinceLionheart]

xlavaina wrote...

PrinceLionheart wrote...

I disagree in the fact that I actually liked the changes Tali had from ME1 to ME2. In the first game she was basically just a walking encylopedia of Quarian Culture. So I never really understood why so many people loved her. I liked her a lot more in ME2 though because she gained a far more assertive personality.

But still, the Tali Romance plain sucked. It was nothing but fanservice for Tali-Fanboys, which, while good for them, I'm not among them so I felt it was lacking. That and I agree that she came off rather *****y towards Jacob, so I also snickered when he made the A.I. jab.

I know what you're saying, and I partly agree. The romance with Tali could seem a little... misplaced. I personally don't think so but I see where you're coming from. Honestly though, I think Bioware did a good job with the romance, since it was more believable due to your adventures in the previous game.

Yeah and about the AI jab, I would have loved to see her flip out or try and sabotage EDI. What if she worked with Joker... hmm...

Yeah, like Garrus, given their past history it helped with the romance. But seriously, all the romance really consisted of was Tali saying she had a Crush on him and talk about how they'll touch. Like I said, it's really good for Tali fans, which is why I can understand people did like the romance, but not so much for me. 

[Kacynski]

V-rex wrote...

To be fair I can see why people do like Tali. She's sweet and charming and has a nice personality but I honestly much preferred her in the first Mass Effect because she was strong and decisive. That said while I always liked her as a sort of little sister figure I can't say I was a huge fan of her romance subplot because it was all just about sex (intimacy) and she just seemed a little too weak all of a sudden and became like a submissive fan-girl to the greatness of Shepard, plus all the conversations put together last about eight minutes, that's the average length of a single conversation with a Love Interest in Mass Effect 1.
Point is, there wasn't as much character development given to how she has feelings for Shepard and even less of an explanation of where Shepard suddenly gets feelings for her, it's just sort of... announced. True she's still greatly characterized in both games but the romance itself doesn't really evolve past the issue of 'the immune system'.

Point is, it felt rushed and not very well implemented and it kind of compromised her character by turning her into a sort of vapid damsel in distress type who is drunk on Shepard's manliness and of whom the only real conflict is her immune system of which is resolved alarmingly fast.
Plus I didn't like how she was always sweet and always vulnerable without any notable flaws or moments of strength the whole way through the romance until the final scene. It felt like an idealized version of how a girlfriend 'should' be. Completely in love and doting towards her man, it's Twilight but this time from the view of the Vampire.

I still LIKE Tali a lot and I can understand why people would want to go the extra mile with her and I mean no offense to anyone who enjoyed the romance with her (I admit there still were some rather cute moments and her loyalty mission brought tears to my eyes) but overall I would have preferred the romance to be better developed. But still maybe I'm just biased because my heart belongs to a certain Operations Chief, who knows.

Still, I like Tali a hell of a lot, enough that I worked like crazy to keep her alive in the Suicide Mission and that counts for something. I like her, just can't say I was really 'wowed' by her romance and while the idea of dating a Quarian with the whole immune system problem makes for potentially good drama overall I just prefer to think of her as a friend and not much else.

Just sums it up for me - *waves to another certain Operations Chief lover*
Tali is really great and her loyalty mission makes for some of the best moments in the game. But exactly as pointed out above, her romance did not touch anything inside me save for the feeling I screwed my little sister ...

[DeckardWasAReplicant]

If you look at her from a squadmate standpoint in firefights ahe is useless unless you have mech/geth enemies. Shotgun and heavy pistol? The shotgun is practicly useless on squad members in most fights. And AI hack is uselss with out tech/geth. But thats my take.

[shadowpiranha]

I like her, don't absolutely irrevocably love her, but I like her. However, much like others I always thought of her as the 'kid sister', so for her to be a romance has always felt weird. Then again, I play a female Shepard, and my experience is that Tali is still the kid sister/good friend that inspires the most protective feelings of my Shepard. (but Kasumi is my girl, hands down.)



As for her opinion of the geth, I can't judge, she's the Quarian, they're going to have more insight and some pretty strong stances on the subject. I like the geth since Legion showed up and explained a bunch of things, but I understand someone like Tali would never be comfortable with him/them. Plus, I don't think she was defending her father's actions so much as she was defending his memory, which I can also understand completely.



Now, the rabid fanboying, I don't quite get, but then again, I've never gotten obsession or even understood it, so maybe it's just me.

[thq95]

Never liked her, If it wasn't for Udina she would have never been in my squad to begin with.

[Bom_diggidy_Wrex]

I like this human!



I like tali as a little sister character...but as a romance with her nah she's too quarian probaly will cheat on ya with reegar in ME3 could tottally tell something going on there (that is ofcourse that if she dosen't die due to your lust to see her naked and give her deadly infection!)

[thq95]

Shepard: "I think this is more than you can handle."



Udina: "She's already survived a run in with the geth, take her with you Shepard."



Shepard: "NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!"

[Tootles FTW]

I'm a female player, and I can get the Tali-fandom thing...I just don't share it. The Quarian race, in general, bothers me. I feel little sympathy for space gypsies who won't acknowledge their contribution to their own fate.

Modifié par Tootles FTW, 30 juillet 2010 - 06:38 .

[Funkcase]

I agree with all of V-rex's points. Tali is a great character i too can understand why people love her, just not my thing, she's a friend, a very good friend. But i would'nt risk her health, her romance felt a little rushed and could have done with more development, plus Ash is the main reason for me aswell ofcourse.

But alot of this Tali hate (and hate for any character for that matter) is just stupid, let people enjoy there game, what they play aint the same as you, if she died on the suicide mission for you, she wont be in your ME3 playthrough, so no need to b**ch about them online. Its a game, people play them to have fun, dont try and spoil it for them. I think most Tali hate is just becuase of her massive fan base, and not becuase of her character tbh.

Modifié par Funkcase, 30 juillet 2010 - 12:30 .

[Estelindis]

You know, the title of this thread made me think it was going to be nothing but attention-seeking nonsense, but you actually give some pretty good reasons for disliking Tali.

That said, I do like Tali as a character (haven't romanced her, since I play FemShep), and I think that a number of the flaws you mentioned exist because, like any other person, she has imperfections.  She is a well-written character, not a Mary Sue.  In particular, it's very human to have blind spots when it comes to the mistakes of one's own family and nation (re. Tali's hypocrisy on the topic of Cerberus's experiments compared with her father's).  *But* she shows the ability to acknowledge this when confronted with it (e.g. in the paragon resolution to her confrontation with Legion).  So she can learn and develop when her beliefs are challenged.  (At the same time, though, I also kinda liked it in ME1 when you could argue with her but not persuade her.  There are benefits to both writing approaches!)

As I said, I can't really comment on the romance since I haven't played it.  But there are two respects in which I think Bioware could have written it better (just going from the general shape of things).  Firstly, I think that it should be possible to have romance without sex in a case where one genuinely cares for the other person and fears endangering their health.  Secondly, hasn't Tali been rescued by Shepard three times by the end of ME2, and isn't that a bit much?  (All the squad girls in ME1 are rescued when you meet them initially, whereas none of the ME1 squad dudes were - what a cliché!  At least ME2 shakes that up a bit in general - just not with Tali.)

Modifié par Estelindis, 30 juillet 2010 - 01:57 .

[Thundertactics]

Mukora wrote...

Tootles FTW wrote...

I'm a female player, and I can get the Tali-fandom thing...I just don't share it. The Quarian race, in general, bothers me. I feel little sympathy for space gypsies who won't acknowledge their contribution to their own fate.

Eh? The codex mentions that nearly all quarians acknowledge the fact that their exile is their fault...

Indeed.
[codex]
Quarians: Religion

The ancient quarians practiced ancestor worship. Even after abandoning faith for secularism,quarians continued to revere the wisdom of elders. As time passed and technology advanced, they inevitably turned their knowledge to preserving the personalities and memories of the elderly as computer virtual intelligences. These recordings became a repository of knowledge and wisdom, stored in a central databank and available through any extranet
connection.
They held no illusions that this was like a form of immortality; like all virtual intelligences, their electronically-preserved ancestors were not truly sapient. This was considered a surmountable problem; sapience could surely be reduced to simple mathematics.
The quarians began exhaustive research into creating artificial intelligence so they could learn to escape the bounds of mortality and give their ancestral records true awareness. Unfortunately, the life thequarians created did not accept the same truths they did. The geth destroyed the ancestor databanks when they took over.

In the centuries since they evacuated their homeworld, most quarians have returned to religion in various forms. Many believe the rise of the geth and the destruction of their 'ancestors' were chastisement for arrogantly forsaking the old ways and venerating self-made idols. Others have a more philosophical outlook, believing their race was indeed arrogant, but no supernatural agency lay behind the geth revolt. Rather, the quarians' actions wrought their own doom. Either way, every quarian would agree that their own hubris cost them their homeworld.[/codex]

Water Dumple wrote...

I disagree with your specific reasons against the character, but some of the fans are enough to make me hate her as well...

I might be adding to your hate by saying this and quite frankly, I don't care, as I have no reason to value your opinion; but sir, that reasoning is pathetic at best.

Modifié par Thundertactics, 30 juillet 2010 - 01:43 .

[Estelindis]

mrsph wrote...
You rescue Garrus

In ME2, yes.  Not in ME1.  (That's what I was saying re. ME2 mixing things up a bit, thankfully.)

[Rogue Unit]

I like Tali. But I'm willing to admit she sometimes pissed me off with her ****y attitude. Garrus reminded you of Cerberus' past actions and left it alone Tali on the other hand wont shut up about them.

And her complete defiance of Shepards authority is annoying during her conflict with Legion. You tell a psychopath like Jack to back off, she says she'll do her job and leaves. You tell Tali to leave Legion alone and she decides "Forget Shepard Im going to fire a shot at him anyways for good measure."

Modifié par Rogue Unit, 30 juillet 2010 - 02:00 .