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The Missing RPG element that people keep bringing up-


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#226
Xpheyel

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tonnactus wrote...

Xpheyel wrote...

Saying that the Claymore is the flat out best shotgun is also just bollocks in my opinion. It may put out the highest DPS

Right.And dps decide what is the best weapon in a game where you have to shoot enemies.


DPS over how much time, how many targets, and how many rounds? Yeah that's right, probably pounding shot after shot into a YMIR? How much faster can it kill 3 Blue Suns vs. the Eviscerator if I have someone throw a shield drain into their group first?

I've never been married to the Claymore and you can certainly get along without it. In fact, choosing the AR or the SR on the Collector ship as a Vanguard would give you even more flexibility while sacrificing only single target damage over time. 

Of course then again I guess asking you to make choices like that doesn't count on social.bioware because it isn't quantified by a bar. 

Modifié par Xpheyel, 29 juillet 2010 - 07:21 .


#227
theelementslayer

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tonnactus wrote...

theelementslayer wrote...


The point is that in ME1 there was a definite best of all classes, and you could get all of them. In ME2 there really is no second best for all playstyles. Sure there are ones that do the most DPS but what if your an infiltrator and dont just want DPS but instead want slow precise headshots?


For what? Dps decide what is the best weapon.Someone could like other weapons more,but this doesnt change what is the best weapon. And does it make sense that shepardt only pick one weapon on the collector ship...


Nah DPS doesnt decide which is the best weapon. With the viper I find myself missing becasue of the recoil after every quick shot. Remember DPS means your hitting him in the same place. With my infiltrator, whose headshot damage is incresased then why go for body shots with a viper and waste more ammo? Im quicker with the matis because I miss less, also better with ammo. DPS doesnt account for upgrades, headshots ect. Sure if your a vanguad and using it a CQC then maybe. But for me nope. 

Now stop interupting me and Liara, we want our sexy time:whistle:

#228
tonnactus

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Xpheyel wrote...


DPS over how much time, how many targets, and how many rounds? Yeah that's right, probably pounding shot after shot into a YMIR? How much faster can it kill 3 Blue Suns vs. the Eviscerator if I have someone throw a shield drain into their group first?

Powers dont exclude the usage of a weapon.Yes,someone of your group used a shield drain.You still kill the enemies faster with a claymore then with a eviscerator and faster with the vindicator then with the avenger. Rounds would matter if headsinks were not laying aroung every meter even in insanity.

I've never been married to the Claymore and you can certainly get along without it. In fact, choosing the AR or the SR on the Collector ship as a Vanguard would give you even more flexibility while sacrificing only single target damage over time. 


Gameplay decisions didnt change the fact what is the best weapon in the game.

#229
Sparda Stonerule

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I was hoping to show up during the good discussion. Not the discussion in which tonnactus just goes by DPS and ignores everyone who feels like playing the game they want to with the weapons they feel like using. Your general statements are irrelevant. All you have done is show which guns have the best DPS. The best DPS does not determine the best of anything unless you are playing an MMO. Go back to World of Warcraft and start debating why some classes are broken because they have more DPS.

#230
LyletheBloody

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I am a huge fan of them tweaking the inventory in the way that they did. I feel like it streamlined the experience and lets the player focus much more on the actual game play. I think BioWare made a good decision there and I hope they will keep with it for ME 3 (or maybe they will come up with something even better).

#231
haberman13

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LyletheBloody wrote...

I am a huge fan of them tweaking the inventory in the way that they did. I feel like it streamlined the experience and lets the player focus much more on the actual game play. I think BioWare made a good decision there and I hope they will keep with it for ME 3 (or maybe they will come up with something even better).


Like a functional inventory and gear system?

#232
Pocketgb

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tonnactus wrote...

Yes.Shooters like halflife, prey and deadspace have puzzles that require some thinking. Deadspace even allow it to upgrade weapons on a workbench in the order the player wants to do that and have shops(selling and buying) where the player could by weapons/store items . Its a shame that a so called rpg like Mass Effect 2 didnt have that.


It didn't need it. Selling items could've been interesting, but Shepard is still in a very different place than Isaac.

tonnactus wrote...

On insanity snipers could oneshot shepardt in armor that have less damage reduction then colossus/titan. So i prefer that.(for an engineer at least)


Ok...?

#233
Gorn Kregore

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Epic777 wrote...

Seriously are hardcore RPGs for the most intelligent and enlightened?


shame most of them r busy wasting oxygen in their mother's basement

so much for useful intelligence!1

#234
M1tt3ns

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MarchWaltz wrote...

I dont mind. It is more realistic. That being said, we should have way more armor and weapons.


In what respect is it more realistic? In the real world pick any gun, chances are there's somewhere between 5 and 5000 variants of it, each with it's own unique quirks and performance standards. On top of that there are thousands of aftermarket parts as well that improve mechanical function or ergonomics, or even just aesthetics.

While you certainly can't carry 100 guns on your person, it's no more absurd to believe that there is only one weapon in each class in the Mass Effect universe. Especially when the last game demonstrated otherwise.

More importantly finding superior weapons and armor makes you feel rewarded in between levels and after hard fights. Finding weapon upgrades in ME2 was very anti-climactic as they made no aesthetic changes. Not only does finding items add to the gameplay experience, it also improves replayability. There's quite literally no reason to go back through the game with your initial Shepard in ME2, whereas I played through the first game a half dozen or so times to get everyone on my team Predator armor. Even moreover it rewards players for completing the game on higher difficulties... the only reward ME2 had for higher difficulty was a sub-par assault rifle.

Gorn Kregore wrote...

Epic777 wrote...

Seriously are hardcore RPGs for the most intelligent and enlightened?


shame most of them r busy wasting oxygen in their mother's basement

so much for useful intelligence!1




So much for a shift key.

Modifié par M1tt3ns, 29 juillet 2010 - 09:58 .


#235
lazuli

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theelementslayer wrote...

Nah DPS doesnt decide which is the best weapon. With the viper I find myself missing becasue of the recoil after every quick shot. Remember DPS means your hitting him in the same place. With my infiltrator, whose headshot damage is incresased then why go for body shots with a viper and waste more ammo? Im quicker with the matis because I miss less, also better with ammo. DPS doesnt account for upgrades, headshots ect. Sure if your a vanguad and using it a CQC then maybe. But for me nope. 


I agree with your assessment of the non-Widow sniper rifles.  The Infiltrator's time dilation works better with the Mantis.

#236
tonnactus

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Sparda Stonerule wrote...

I was hoping to show up during the good discussion. Not the discussion in which tonnactus just goes by DPS and ignores everyone who feels like playing the game they want to with the weapons they feel like using. Your general statements are irrelevant.


Oh fine.Just claiming things without arguments is a good way to have good discussions. People wrote that in the first game spectre weapons were the best of and in the second game something like this didnt exist.What is clearly wrong because top of the line weapons like the revenant exists and they are better in all points compared with others.Call that "irrelevant",it doesnt matter.

Modifié par tonnactus, 29 juillet 2010 - 10:41 .


#237
theelementslayer

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M1tt3ns wrote...

In what respect is it more realistic? In the real world pick any gun, chances are there's somewhere between 5 and 5000 variants of it, each with it's own unique quirks and performance standards. On top of that there are thousands of aftermarket parts as well that improve mechanical function or ergonomics, or even just aesthetics.

While you certainly can't carry 100 guns on your person, it's no more absurd to believe that there is only one weapon in each class in the Mass Effect universe. Especially when the last game demonstrated otherwise.

More importantly finding superior weapons and armor makes you feel rewarded in between levels and after hard fights. Finding weapon upgrades in ME2 was very anti-climactic as they made no aesthetic changes. Not only does finding items add to the gameplay experience, it also improves replayability. There's quite literally no reason to go back through the game with your initial Shepard in ME2, whereas I played through the first game a half dozen or so times to get everyone on my team Predator armor. Even moreover it rewards players for completing the game on higher difficulties... the only reward ME2 had for higher difficulty was a sub-par assault rifle.


Actually in modern warfare, like the actual theatres, not the game there really arent too many differences.

Americans use the M16, M4, Barrett .50cal, .45 colt for a sidearm, maybe a beretta. And SMG maybe an MP5. A mossberg for a shotty and maybe the M24 for a smaller calibre sniper

Russians use strictly the AK47, Dragonovs, maybe a 74U for smaller close range. The G3 is coming into play a bit more too depending.

Chinese use the same as russians really. The brits the same as americans, maybe a G36 thrown in there odd times but the M4 and M16 are quite used.

Canada uses all the american weapons bar the M4, its called the C4 but really looks and acts the same.

French have the FAMAS

so really only around 5-6 really well used ARs and SMGs, a few snipers and shottys. Yes there are derivatives, but any that really make a difference no not really. Sure there werent many weapons but it was better then carrying around 50 weapons.

And as for rewards. Nah once I got the Spectre guns I sold and omni gelled, that was for like 3/4 of the game, alright maybe only 1/2 but still wasnt very rewarding, didnt need the credits or the omni gel. Nah ME2 personally felt more rewarding

#238
2kgnsiika

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Sparda Stonerule wrote...

I was hoping to show up during the good discussion. Not the discussion in which tonnactus just goes by DPS and ignores everyone who feels like playing the game they want to with the weapons they feel like using. Your general statements are irrelevant. All you have done is show which guns have the best DPS. The best DPS does not determine the best of anything unless you are playing an MMO. Go back to World of Warcraft and start debating why some classes are broken because they have more DPS.


Yeah, I thought this convesation was about the inventory system and rpg elements (or rather rpg staples) that were not present in ME2.

Anyhow, let me start by saying that ME2 was an unsurpassed experience, one of the best games ever and definitely GOTY 2010 for me, and when I played it I thought it was superior to ME1 in almost every way, so this is not an anti-ME2 rant.


However, just recently I went back to create another Shepard in ME1 and noticed how much better the combat/framerate/visual presentation was in ME2, but  to my surprise I really enjoyed all to looting, upgrading, shopping etc. and most of all the ability to EQUIP ARMOR ON YOUR SQUADMATES.


Nothing looks more badass than Shep, Liara and Garrus sneaking around Ilos in Armax Arsenal's Predator H/M/L X Armor or shooting through geth on Noveria wearing Rosenkov Materials' black-and-white Titan Armor. It really felt more like you were the commanding officer of a real elite clandestine paramilitary special tactics and reconnaissance unit, when everybody's wearing similar armor (or atleast some kind of armor!) Instead, in ME2 some squadmates just wear high heels and spandex (or nothing at all) and make do with a breathing mask in a vacuum, which makes ME2 feel like you're not a space marine in a science fiction game for adults but Captain America in a comic book for teens.
 
Also, the ability to switch armor during missions was also great and allowed you to immediately wear that hot piece of Heavy Colossus X instead of waiting for 45 minutes to wear it on your next mission.  I know, I know. It's very unrealistic but also such an established RPG staple that it really doesn't inhibit the immersive experience that is Mass Effect.


Compared to that, switching armors in ME2 is a real pain in the ass. You have to be aboard the Normandy, you have to take the elevator up to the captain's quarters and you have to decide at once whether you want Shepard's face to be hidden behind a visor for the next two hours or whether you want to face an army or mercs/geth/collectors without a helmet looking silly and unprotected.


But as I said, ME2 has it's own strengths like superb combat, presentation, variety in terms of locations and lots of real badassery that clearly tip the scale in its favor.

Modifié par 2kgnsiika, 29 juillet 2010 - 10:52 .


#239
M1tt3ns

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theelementslayer wrote...

M1tt3ns wrote...

In what respect is it more realistic? In the real world pick any gun, chances are there's somewhere between 5 and 5000 variants of it, each with it's own unique quirks and performance standards. On top of that there are thousands of aftermarket parts as well that improve mechanical function or ergonomics, or even just aesthetics.

While you certainly can't carry 100 guns on your person, it's no more absurd to believe that there is only one weapon in each class in the Mass Effect universe. Especially when the last game demonstrated otherwise.

More importantly finding superior weapons and armor makes you feel rewarded in between levels and after hard fights. Finding weapon upgrades in ME2 was very anti-climactic as they made no aesthetic changes. Not only does finding items add to the gameplay experience, it also improves replayability. There's quite literally no reason to go back through the game with your initial Shepard in ME2, whereas I played through the first game a half dozen or so times to get everyone on my team Predator armor. Even moreover it rewards players for completing the game on higher difficulties... the only reward ME2 had for higher difficulty was a sub-par assault rifle.


Actually in modern warfare, like the actual theatres, not the game there really arent too many differences.

Americans use the M16, M4, Barrett .50cal, .45 colt for a sidearm, maybe a beretta. And SMG maybe an MP5. A mossberg for a shotty and maybe the M24 for a smaller calibre sniper

Russians use strictly the AK47, Dragonovs, maybe a 74U for smaller close range. The G3 is coming into play a bit more too depending.

Chinese use the same as russians really. The brits the same as americans, maybe a G36 thrown in there odd times but the M4 and M16 are quite used.

Canada uses all the american weapons bar the M4, its called the C4 but really looks and acts the same.

French have the FAMAS

so really only around 5-6 really well used ARs and SMGs, a few snipers and shottys. Yes there are derivatives, but any that really make a difference no not really. Sure there werent many weapons but it was better then carrying around 50 weapons.

And as for rewards. Nah once I got the Spectre guns I sold and omni gelled, that was for like 3/4 of the game, alright maybe only 1/2 but still wasnt very rewarding, didnt need the credits or the omni gel. Nah ME2 personally felt more rewarding




You're not talking about a conventional soldier. Shepard is privately funded by Cerberus, Shepard's enemies are largely mercenaries.

Rather than comparing the gear she'd find to standard issue kits, you should compare it instead to the loadouts of private contractors... There's simply too many kinds of weapons and armor to even begin to list.

Moreover Americans use far more man-portable weapons than that:
M16A2, A3 and A4
M4A1
M249
M240
M60
M14
M14 DMR
Mk14 Mod 0
M21
M21 EBR
M24
SR25
M82
92FS
USP .45
Colt 1911
MP5/n
MP5SD
SCAR/L*
HK416*
AK-47's are also common in Special Forces units operating where 7.62x39 ammo is plentiful

*: Issued to some elite units as a trial of the weapon.

Many are modifications upon other weapons, but most are accurized versions, or versions with shorter or longer barrels. There's a large difference in performance there because of those factors.

Modifié par M1tt3ns, 29 juillet 2010 - 11:42 .


#240
Ralnith

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Well, that's part of the problem. I think noone here would argue against getting more weapons and armor or being able to equip your squadmates. I just think that it would fit the story a lot better if we got that in an improved ME2 style without a flood of worthless junk items and selling sessions at the next trading hub that usually come as a sideeffect of a typical RPG inventory. Some people like it, but I think allowing us to change squadmate armor/weapons like we change Shepard's equipment at the Normandy and reintroducing weapon mods would be the best way to handle inventory in ME3. It seems to be at least partly a matter of personal taste though.

#241
M1tt3ns

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Ralnith wrote...

Well, that's part of the problem. I think noone here would argue against getting more weapons and armor or being able to equip your squadmates. I just think that it would fit the story a lot better if we got that in an improved ME2 style without a flood of worthless junk items and selling sessions at the next trading hub that usually come as a sideeffect of a typical RPG inventory. Some people like it, but I think allowing us to change squadmate armor/weapons like we change Shepard's equipment at the Normandy and reintroducing weapon mods would be the best way to handle inventory in ME3. It seems to be at least partly a matter of personal taste though.


What about for us Paragons? Selling that worthless junk would be a big portion of Shepard's funding since she's not supported by Cerberus or the Council anymore. I'm not entirely sure it is less fitting with the theme, and it might help to drive home the desperate situation Shepard and her crew are in.

#242
theelementslayer

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M1tt3ns wrote...

theelementslayer wrote...

M1tt3ns wrote...

In what respect is it more realistic? In the real world pick any gun, chances are there's somewhere between 5 and 5000 variants of it, each with it's own unique quirks and performance standards. On top of that there are thousands of aftermarket parts as well that improve mechanical function or ergonomics, or even just aesthetics.

While you certainly can't carry 100 guns on your person, it's no more absurd to believe that there is only one weapon in each class in the Mass Effect universe. Especially when the last game demonstrated otherwise.

More importantly finding superior weapons and armor makes you feel rewarded in between levels and after hard fights. Finding weapon upgrades in ME2 was very anti-climactic as they made no aesthetic changes. Not only does finding items add to the gameplay experience, it also improves replayability. There's quite literally no reason to go back through the game with your initial Shepard in ME2, whereas I played through the first game a half dozen or so times to get everyone on my team Predator armor. Even moreover it rewards players for completing the game on higher difficulties... the only reward ME2 had for higher difficulty was a sub-par assault rifle.


Actually in modern warfare, like the actual theatres, not the game there really arent too many differences.

Americans use the M16, M4, Barrett .50cal, .45 colt for a sidearm, maybe a beretta. And SMG maybe an MP5. A mossberg for a shotty and maybe the M24 for a smaller calibre sniper

Russians use strictly the AK47, Dragonovs, maybe a 74U for smaller close range. The G3 is coming into play a bit more too depending.

Chinese use the same as russians really. The brits the same as americans, maybe a G36 thrown in there odd times but the M4 and M16 are quite used.

Canada uses all the american weapons bar the M4, its called the C4 but really looks and acts the same.

French have the FAMAS

so really only around 5-6 really well used ARs and SMGs, a few snipers and shottys. Yes there are derivatives, but any that really make a difference no not really. Sure there werent many weapons but it was better then carrying around 50 weapons.

And as for rewards. Nah once I got the Spectre guns I sold and omni gelled, that was for like 3/4 of the game, alright maybe only 1/2 but still wasnt very rewarding, didnt need the credits or the omni gel. Nah ME2 personally felt more rewarding




You're not talking about a conventional soldier. Shepard is privately funded by Cerberus, Shepard's enemies are largely mercenaries.

Rather than comparing the gear she'd find to standard issue kits, you should compare it instead to the loadouts of private contractors... There's simply too many kinds of weapons and armor to even begin to list.

Moreover Americans use far more man-portable weapons than that:
M16A2, A3 and A4
M4A1
M249
M240
M60
M14
M14 DMR
Mk14 Mod 0
M21
M21 EBR
M24
SR25
M82
92FS
USP .45
Colt 1911
MP5/n
MP5SD
SCAR/L*
HK416*
AK-47's are also common in Special Forces units operating where 7.62x39 ammo is plentiful

*: Issued to some elite units as a trial of the weapon.

Many are modifications upon other weapons, but most are accurized versions, or versions with shorter or longer barrels. There's a large difference in performance there because of those factors.


Nono I know there are alot in circulation and such but the thing is, there arent thousands, and if you go to your regualr army grunt it will usually be an M16 or M4, one of the A derivatives. Once you get into spec ops then yes there is alot more diveristy

#243
M1tt3ns

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theelementslayer wrote...
Nono I know there are alot in circulation and such but the thing is, there arent thousands, and if you go to your regualr army grunt it will usually be an M16 or M4, one of the A derivatives. Once you get into spec ops then yes there is alot more diveristy


Most of those barring the MP5s and M60 are available to most soldiers (but the aforementioned weapons are only in use with SEALs). The M14 and variations are issued as Designated Marksman Rifles, there's an M240 or M249 with every team as well.

But again, we're not talking about an average grunt. Shepard, and the enemies she might steal weapons from are privately funded, and as I just said would have a loadout more similar to a PMC than a grunt or even an operator. Which is to say no limitations whatsoever save for likely interchangable magazines with one's allies. Of course thermal clips are universal... so even that wouldn't be a factor in Mass Effect's universe.

#244
Jimmie_Rox

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Ralnith wrote...

Well, that's part of the problem. I think noone here would argue against getting more weapons and armor or being able to equip your squadmates. I just think that it would fit the story a lot better if we got that in an improved ME2 style without a flood of worthless junk items and selling sessions at the next trading hub that usually come as a sideeffect of a typical RPG inventory. Some people like it, but I think allowing us to change squadmate armor/weapons like we change Shepard's equipment at the Normandy and reintroducing weapon mods would be the best way to handle inventory in ME3. It seems to be at least partly a matter of personal taste though.


I approve of the idea of a mixture of the inventory systems from the 2 games, weapon mods and armour mods were good. I personally like having junk and selling it, it means I have an alternate scource of income other than just picking up credits that people happen to leave lying around.

theelementslayer wrote...

Actually in modern warfare, like the actual theatres, not the game there really arent too many differences.

Americans use the M16, M4, Barrett .50cal, .45 colt for a sidearm, maybe a beretta. And SMG maybe an MP5. A mossberg for a shotty and maybe the M24 for a smaller calibre sniper

Russians use strictly the AK47, Dragonovs, maybe a 74U for smaller close range. The G3 is coming into play a bit more too depending.

Chinese use the same as russians really. The brits the same as americans, maybe a G36 thrown in there odd times but the M4 and M16 are quite used.

Canada uses all the american weapons bar the M4, its called the C4 but really looks and acts the same.

French have the FAMAS

so really only around 5-6 really well used ARs and SMGs, a few snipers and shottys. Yes there are derivatives, but any that really make a difference no not really. Sure there werent many weapons but it was better then carrying around 50 weapons.

And as for rewards. Nah once I got the Spectre guns I sold and omni gelled, that was for like 3/4 of the game, alright maybe only 1/2 but still wasnt very rewarding, didnt need the credits or the omni gel. Nah ME2 personally felt more rewarding


No, we don't. Standard issue in the Forces is the SA-80 mark 2, manufactured by H&K, the only similarity between that and the M16 (and it's variants) being that it uses NATO standard ammunition. It's a bullpup config assault rifle which gives it the longer range accuracy of the M16 with the close quarters manouverability of the M4. It's true you will find the occasional G36 but only in SF. Standard issue sidearms are the Browning Hi-Power (with both the 13 and 21 round clips in use) and Sigs (though these are only just being phased in and thus are used mainly in SF atm) and various Accuracy International sniper rifles. What you see in a CoD game isn't always true, hell, the Royal Marine attatched to your team in Ghost Recon carried an SA-80 and it was the most overpowered weapon in the game.

As for mindless tedium in ME2, what about the fish? I have a super intelligent AI to do my every bidding, so why can't I have it feed my ****ing fish which is done electonically anyway? I prefer having to go down to the cargo hold and visit the supplies officer after a mission because at least I get something for doing that.

As for the best assault rifle in ME2? I tend to use the Avenger simply because I don't like burst fire guns and I like the extra ammo I get with it. The Revanant is, well a touch inaccurate IMO and I don't like the way the collector rifle looks. As for snipers, on a Vanguard I use a Viper, but as a marksman's battle rifle with a bit of spam (but accurate spam) not as a true sniper rifle. For every other class I use the Mantis or the Widow. As I only ever use shotguns on Vanguards I never use the Claymore, it's RoF is too slow and it doesn't have enough ammo. I tend to use the Eviscerator until I get the Scimitar (or Skimatar if you get the joke) since using the Claymore screws you over if you use Biotic Charge and can only get one shot off after coming out of the charge and melee's useless since shotti's have a slow melee attack, or at least I notice that the attack speed seems to be slower than for say the pistol and the smg.

#245
catabuca

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CatatonicMan wrote...

The biggest issue with ME2 as far as I can see actually doesn't stem from the game itself, but rather from the fact that it is a sequel.

ME2 works perfectly fine as a game. It's mechanics are functional, it's experience is fun and memorable, and it is generally well executed on the whole. It has it's flaws like all games, but they aren't generally critical or game breaking. Some liked it, and some didn't - just like every other game.

ME1 also worked perfectly fine: functional mechanics, fun, good experience, well executed, with some irritating but not game breaking flaws. Again, it was liked by some and disliked by others.

The problems arise because ME2 is a direct sequel from ME1. ME2 is quite a different game than ME1; they are similar in the basic premise, but differ massively in the implementation. Unfortunately, this means that anyone who bought ME2 thinking that it would be ME1+1 (like most direct sequels) was going to find a game that was quite different that what they anticipated. It is fairly obvious to me that unless a player enjoyed the changes, they would be out for the blood of the one who messed up the game.

The same thing would have happened if ME2 had come first.

The issue is not one of mechanics, but instead of performing radical changes to a direct sequel.


I'm catabuca, and this is my favourite post on the internet. :D

It's difficult to view either game solely on their own merits, because they exist in a narrative relationship with one another. I recently played Alpha Protocol, but didn't find myself comparing it to ME (no more than I was asked to, since it was marketed as similar to the ME franchise in terms of being action/rpg, and only in the way I would compare Mass Effect to Assassin's Creed, with regard to which I enjoyed playing the most, for example) simply because it isn't part of that franchise. I can't play ME1 or 2 with the same detatchment because they are part of the same narrative, the same story, which is being delivered in 3 episodes.

I believe ME1 and 2 work at their best as stand-alone games, both having excellent qualities and both having some flaws. I rate ME1's story and immersion as better than ME2, I rate ME2's combat (in terms of cover and aiming) as better than ME1. I prefer the range of talents and depth of armor/weapon customisation or modding in ME1, but I found the inventory system bloated and badly implemented. I prefer the way I can curve powers and not have to wade through inventories in ME2, but I dislike the way the game is chopped up even more so than ME1 by its end of level screens, and by being dropped into combat levels (with their crates-means-combat layout) and whisked out of them again. At the same time, I enjoyed the more expansive main missions in ME1, where the missions were made of up several aspects like talking to people, doing smaller missions, then some combat, but, conversely, I disliked how each uncharted world was essentially the same. I like how ME2 had varied side assignments, but I disliked how short or inconsequential most of them seemed.

See, I'm comparing the two games. They work best as two stand-alone games, and the problem lies in the fact that we aren't playing them as two stand-alone games. They are parts one and two of a trilogy which are continuing the same story. The Mass Effect trilogy was marketed to fans at the beginning essentially along the lines of a three act play. It wasn't described as a stand-alone game (ME), which may have its universe extended by the creation of another stand-alone game or games in the future (ME2 and ME3). The former is how a lot of people view the current trilogy, and that's why they will compare the games to a far greater level than they would compare say Mass Effect to Alpha Protocol, or GTAIII to GTAIV.

This isn't all as cut and dried as some make out: if you criticise aspects of ME2, it doesn't mean you hate it, and it doesn't mean you idolise all aspects of ME1. Likewise, if you say ME2 is a better game than ME1, I'd wager the reason a lot of people picked up ME2 in the first place was because they played and enjoyed ME1, while at the same time recognising its faults. Overall, I prefer ME1 because I prefer its story and the way it immerses me in the universe. It is possible for me to hold that opinion while disliking ME1's inventory bloat, while finding the texture glitches mildly irritating, while getting tired of the same merc bases on the uncharted worlds, and while liking the improved combat mechanics in ME2. It's possible for me to recognise and enjoy the great improvements BW made in ME2 to graphics, combat, and so on, while at the same time preferring how ME1 felt emotionally as I played it. It's not either/or, it's not black/white.

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*ahem* I realise this post does little to discuss the inventory, which was the point of this thread. fwiw, as I briefly stated above, amidst the rest of my rambling, I disliked the bloat of ME1's inventory system, and how you had to micro-manage it and spend so much time piffling around. At the same time, I wish BW had retained a little more customisation potential in ME2, in terms of mods to weapons (I'm reasonably happy with the way my armor is modular in ME2), and I wish my squad wore armor - that is one of the biggest oversights of the whole game imo.

And in reply to the point about carrying hundreds of pieces of gear around with you being unrealistic (I agree it's unrealistic, but it's something that doesn't break immersion for me, since it's something I'm comfortable with in terms of suspension of disbelief, just not in terms of bloat), I think you're on dodgy ground using realism as an argument against it since I find it pretty unrealistic that there would be weapons lockers at strategic places around combat levels where I could access all the weapons on my ship.