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Is Tali most Liked?


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#51
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mrsph wrote...

Water Dumple wrote...

Yeah, well, the whole cult following deal makes it hard for those of us with justifiable opinions to get much respect on the subject. I detailed the problems with this in another thread, but to summarize, the group of extremist Talimancers generally wound up screwing with the public's impressions of the character and anybody who supports the character even slightly; I can list several supported reasons why she is in my top 3 favorite characters, but of course nobody cares and I'm just one of the "horde" in terms of public view. Others are probably in a similar situation.

It's sort of a pain, but I guess every forum has to have its HERP DERP somewhere or other.


You pretty much get ****ed at for liking any character that isn't Legion or Garrus. Espeically if the character is a LI.

A bunch of 12 year old's actually dedicated a hategroup to me because I admitted to liking Jacob and Jack =/


This is why character threads are a good idea.  Than all the "wackos" can hang out in their thread and not worry about getting trolled and if everybody else finds them creepy, well, they know where they are so they can avoid them.  I hate the general forums.  Every time I come out here it seems I accidentally start a flame war.  When I see people discussing things reasonably I like to join in.   I want to talk about other things than just one character but civil conversations are hard to come by out here.  I have no problems with people who honestly dislike certain characters.  They have that right.  But the hate is just ridiculous.  Hating people because they dislike a popular character or like an unpopular one is stupid.  I agree with with you on that

#52
Water Dumple

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Isabelle Mortello wrote...

Go ahead, please. I want to hear them with an open mind.


Sure. Of course, it's just an opinion, but I think I have some slightly justifiable reasons behind it.


1. The character is well-voiced. Right when I first saw Tali in ME1 through the end of the game, I thought it was impressive just how expressive the character was despite being masked 100% of the time. ME2 improved on this and gave her more of a personality, which is why I think she's somewhat better-represented later on. I never had a hard time understanding her through the accent or thought "Man...why did they put that accent in"? Video games commonly make accents feel silly or forced, but Tali was always portrayed as being very foreign (only Quarian in all of ME1) so it made sense to me.

2. The Quarians are my favorite race. Maybe this comes from being rather starved in terms of sci-fi (never read much of it), but I find the idea of an entire race supported entirely by mobile ships to be pretty cool. Add in their backstory with the Geth, and it gets a whole lot more interesting. There are ethical questions to be raised about whether they were right in their treatment of the Geth, how synthetics should be treated differently from organics if at all differently, and so on. (Ties into why I like Legion just as much as Tali.) As for personal preference, I also like the design of the Quarians' suits, but more from a technical/mechanical standpoint than...however the Talimancers view them. Their weird sexual attraction to the whole concept is something that has gone miles over my head, but I don't care to stick that head up there and ask them about it. Safer in the bunker here.

3.Tali's personal backstory is developed pretty well, with just enough room to speculate and imagine what's going on. (I can say the same thing of Garrus and Legion, although they're beside the point right now.) You start understanding part of Rael'Zorah's plans, but later find out just how much he uses Tali to pursue his political motivation, who is unknowing the entire time. His death scene is carried out with all sorts of class, too--a bittersweet moment done right for once. As his unwavering focus on his goal is blinded by apparent progress, you can see his constitution and rationality crumbling away, leaving Tali without any idea how to act after his demise; on the one hand, the only family member she really knew is dead, but on the other, it turns out that he was using her the entire time as a tool to pursue his own ambitions, even if it was partly out of love. There are plenty of other facets of the backstory, but I think that example gives a decent idea of what I'm getting at.

4. Tali is useful as a squadmate in combat. In ME1, she's quite handy for short-range assistance if you are a long range-centered class, or for screwing around with enemy tech. (Destroyer turns on its former allies, wreaks havoc! Easy to take out what few remnants are left.) In ME2, the combat drone makes for a great distraction along with the shield drain to weaken a powerful target. Hacking lost some of its use as you now have to get through shields to pull it off, but it still has potential. Admittedly, her weapons were far better in ME1 since ME2 nerfed the hell out of shotties, but the massive potential of the combat drone makes up for it. Anyway...


Those are just what came off the top of my head, but I hope you get the gist of why I like the character from those points. And these are a few other small reasons, although they're just personal preference rather than analysis (my nerd reasons for liking the character rather than the intellectual ones above).


-Tali's loyalty mission is the most interesting. It goes from some quite lengthy, entertaining dialogue to a unique combat area, then switches back for a little more dialogue (it's cool that the climax is actually the dialogue rather than the combat).

-I like her theme the most. Yes, the music in ME2 isn't orchestral, but...comparatively, this theme is pretty good. As a musician for 10 years and counting, I see a lot of elements of successful composition in there, though I won't bore you with the details since only us music geeks give a rip about that.

...and by "successful composition," I mean themes and patterns I like to hear in music. Beethoven would be turning in his grave if I tried to get professional about it.

-I like machines. The whole Quarian race is based around machines, and they even look like half-machines with their suits and all. Just a design aethetic I really enjoy.

-One of Tali's lines references the Miniature Giant Space Hamster.

#53
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Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

mrsph wrote...

Water Dumple wrote...

Yeah, well, the whole cult following deal makes it hard for those of us with justifiable opinions to get much respect on the subject. I detailed the problems with this in another thread, but to summarize, the group of extremist Talimancers generally wound up screwing with the public's impressions of the character and anybody who supports the character even slightly; I can list several supported reasons why she is in my top 3 favorite characters, but of course nobody cares and I'm just one of the "horde" in terms of public view. Others are probably in a similar situation.

It's sort of a pain, but I guess every forum has to have its HERP DERP somewhere or other.


You pretty much get ****ed at for liking any character that isn't Legion or Garrus. Espeically if the character is a LI.

A bunch of 12 year old's actually dedicated a hategroup to me because I admitted to liking Jacob and Jack =/


This is why character threads are a good idea.  Than all the "wackos" can hang out in their thread and not worry about getting trolled and if everybody else finds them creepy, well, they know where they are so they can avoid them.  I hate the general forums.  Every time I come out here it seems I accidentally start a flame war.  When I see people discussing things reasonably I like to join in.   I want to talk about other things than just one character but civil conversations are hard to come by out here.  I have no problems with people who honestly dislike certain characters.  They have that right.  But the hate is just ridiculous.  Hating people because they dislike a popular character or like an unpopular one is stupid.  I agree with with you on that


Well, yeah. You better like my favorite character and dislike the character I hate or you can just GTFO! =P

Though I am surprised Garrus didn't take a hit in popularity when he was made a LI. I was sure Kaidan and Thane would give him more trouble.

edit: And I don't come here for serious debate. I come here to laugh at all the stupid flaming and occassionally nerd out about quarians and turians.

Modifié par mrsph, 30 juillet 2010 - 07:09 .


#54
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I got a theory about that. Lots of Thane fangirls were really Garrus fangirls back in the day. They just didn't think Bioware would ever give them Garrus because he is so alien. So they latched onto Thane as a more humanoid malien alternative. I was one of these myself. When it became apparent that the utterly unthinkable happened and they did give us Garrus, a lot of us switched from Thane back to Garrus. But there is a lot of overlap in the fandoms. I think you will find that most Garrus fangirls are also Thane fangirls. I'm not as sure with the ones who prefer Thane because they kinda keep to themselves. That's another thing. Thane is actually pretty popular but his fangirls are kinda insular for some reason.



And this is way OT, so to contribute to the topic of Tali, I will offer some of my opinion on that phenomenon. Talimancers get flamed. A LOT. They have repeatedly been subjected to people entering their threads and trying to derail it with flame wars and the like. This makes them band together and get defensive. If you repeatedly attack people, of course, they are gonna rally and fight back. This is one reason the Garrus thread tends to be kinda mellow. Garrus is really popular and hardly ever gets flamed. We don't have to defend him all the time and so it makes us very laid back. That is my opinion anyway. All of that is just my personal observation. Could be a load of crap, but it sure makes sense to me.

#55
V0luS_R0cKs7aR

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Water Dumple wrote...

Isabelle Mortello wrote...

I truly have no Idea what these guys see in her. She is deformed, nothing close to pretty and looks like a robot (which is why it's weird to find her attractive.). Her accent is terrible and she isn't a very well developed character. I don't get it but they like her still.


I disagree about development; I think she's one of the best-developed characters across ME1 and ME2. The accent seemed fine to me (pretty much every race has some unique accent), but I definitely agree about the deformity. Honestly, when I first looked at the forum I expected her to be completely unliked because she looks like 50% machine. I didn't personally mind because I like machines in general, but...am I missing something about the appearance? I really expected Miranda to be the one with the biggest cult following.


Tali is only well developed relative to the rest of the crew because she was in ME1. The only other character who is available as a squaddie in both ME1 and 2 is Garrus. The two arguably are equal in terms of character development - if anything, this is the sole reason why she is among the "best" developed of the NPCs.

Thus, it's unfair to say she's the best developed amongst the ME2 characters, because her development took place over the course of two games. What character development does occur in ME2 is also pretty unimpressive - I mean, she basically throws herself at Shepherd.

I actually don't see the fuss about Tali either - after a point in ME2, her conversations play out like a rabid fangirl who's just too obviously into Shepherd. In combat, Legion is equal or better in almost every respect - though they have similar powers, Legion has better weapons (ARs and SRs vs. pistols and shotguns) and is generally much more survivable than Tali.

Also not impressed with the Quarians - apart from Kal Reegar, the Quarians have pretty much been cannon fodder for various mechs and geth in ME2.

Tali does have a great VA though.

#56
silver_sparrow

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Isabelle Mortello wrote...

I truly have no Idea what these guys see in her. She is deformed, nothing close to pretty and looks like a robot (which is why it's weird to find her attractive.). Her accent is terrible and she isn't a very well developed character. I don't get it but they like her still.

Some people say it's just a giant troll movement. But trolls aren't that dedicated and obsessed.

Thats it! I'm disowning you! 

<3=crushed

#57
GreedIsNoException

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Isabelle Mortello wrote...

Well in my opinion she isn't a terrible character but her dialogue and development are weak compared to others.

I think she's mostly based out of Liara for her romance in ME2. Which is very sad character development.

silver_sparrow wrote...

Isabelle Mortello wrote...

I truly have no Idea what these guys see in her. She is deformed, nothing close to pretty and looks like a robot (which is why it's weird to find her attractive.). Her accent is terrible and she isn't a very well developed character. I don't get it but they like her still.

Some people say it's just a giant troll movement. But trolls aren't that dedicated and obsessed.

Thats it! I'm disowning you!

=crushed

Disown me to then because I still have no idea why people are so obsessed over her... and frankly it gets pathetic with a few of the "Talimancers" sometimes.

Modifié par GreedIsNoException, 30 juillet 2010 - 12:31 .


#58
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Onyx Jaguar wrote...
Isn't that an oxymoron

No. Tautology. "Fan" is short for fanatic.

#59
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GreedIsNoException wrote...
I think she's mostly based out of Liara for her romance in ME2. Which is very sad character development.

Liara's romance is "The rumours about asari promiscuity are untrue. SEX ME NAO, SHEPARD."
While Tali's is "I didn't think you would like me..."

I fail to see the similarity.

#60
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So I see I am not the only one who finds Liara's personality hilarously inconsistent.

#61
Seth Burns

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I'd have to say she is the most popular. I'd be hard to say, but considering she wins most of the polls she's in and has the biggest forum really says a lot about her fan base. A lot of people here just claim it's the "Talimancer" freaks who sit on these forums all day and that's the only reason why she's popular, but that doesn't really make much since, all things considered.



And you can't really take many people's opinions. There will always be the crazy fanboys who think their character is the most popular. Then you will have the haters who hate the stuff that is popular, and claim it's the least popular. Then you will have the zealots that start arguements over the slightest stuff.



On this website? Yes. I don't know about the rest of the world though, I can't read minds, but I'm assuming it's yes as well if this website represents popular opinion.

#62
Barquiel

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Mukora wrote...

GreedIsNoException wrote...
I think she's mostly based out of Liara for her romance in ME2. Which is very sad character development.

Liara's romance is "The rumours about asari promiscuity are untrue. SEX ME NAO, SHEPARD."
While Tali's is "I didn't think you would like me..."

I fail to see the similarity.


- Shep rescues both characters (Tali - more than once)
- Liara lost her mother, Tali lost her father
- both characters are socially awkward when it comes to love
- and they are NOT exactly "SEX ME NAO, Shepard"
remember...Liara's "Eager is not the same as being ready" line

There are enough similarities.

#63
Yana Montana

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I agree with Barquiel.

#64
silver_sparrow

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Greed & Izzy = disowned.

pay no attention to my crying eye. it isn't hurt. 

#65
Rogue Eagle

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Tali's lame.



Liara would tear her apart.

#66
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Do we really need three Tali threads? Can we lock one of these things, or just stop bumping one?

#67
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silver_sparrow wrote...

Greed & Izzy = disowned.

pay no attention to my crying eye. it isn't hurt. 

She looks like an robotnic ogre. You can not like that.

#68
Anezay

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I prefer to experience a story, whatever the medium, in a vacuum, so as not to have my opinions or expectations influenced by others. This said, I genuinely liked Tali. I recently noticed that I believe that every single biotic teammate with the exception of Wrex, who is awesome, and Kaiden, who I'm indifferent about, can FOAD. To each his own. I would list some reasons, but Water Dumple's post up there was pretty much spot on.

On a different note, I wonder if we can get more LIs if we **** enough. Wrex LI, anyone?

#69
silver_sparrow

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Isabelle Mortello wrote...

silver_sparrow wrote...

Greed & Izzy = disowned.

pay no attention to my crying eye. it isn't hurt. 

She looks like an robotnic ogre. You can not like that.

 I will re-own you (thats sounds really bad) because you support liara but Tali is the ****!

#70
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Anezay wrote...
On a different note, I wonder if we can get more LIs if we **** enough. Wrex LI, anyone?

URZ FOR SQUADMATE AND LI IN ME3.

#71
Anezay

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Mukora wrote...

Anezay wrote...
On a different note, I wonder if we can get more LIs if we **** enough. Wrex LI, anyone?

URZ FOR SQUADMATE AND LI IN ME3.

YES!
Or, you can orchestrate relationships between your crew. Try to set them up together. Think about it: Legion and Mordin. Yeah. That would kick ass.

#72
Bom_diggidy_Wrex

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Miranda>jack>liara>ashley>tali



Tali is just a horrible romance...if you romanced her go romance garrus the two have nearly indentical romance subplots(akwardness toward interspecies relations, both ME1 squadies, Both romances not being about what they look like (talis mask garrus scar)) which is just lame, only diffrence is Tali comes on to shepard like a dog while garrus just makes shepard come on to him with his awesome reach and flexibility story!

#73
Siansonea

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mrsph wrote...

Do we really need three Tali threads? Can we lock one of these things, or just stop bumping one?


^This.

#74
Bom_diggidy_Wrex

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Siansonea II wrote...

mrsph wrote...

Do we really need three Tali threads? Can we lock one of these things, or just stop bumping one?


^This.


This ^ lock migrant fleet thread

#75
Water Dumple

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After seeing their adverse effects on both the game and forum, I'm not sure the romances actually improve the game anymore.

Granted, the ones I've personally seen have been surprisingly classy and weren't overly ridiculous at all. Unfortunately, they seem to have a degenerating effect on the public view of the LI; you'll notice that some of the only characters it's really "safe" to like are not LIs (people such as Legion, Samara, and Mordin). Also, because you either complete the romance subplot or you don't, the player doesn't really have much choice on the way they're carried out, so if you dislike the way the romance is depicted, you can't do anything about it. This contrasts the rest of the game's system, where you can typically find the precise response you want through paragon/renegade/several neutral answers.

The first time I saw one of the romances, I was thinking, "Man, this has the potential to be really pathetic..." and ended thinking "That was surprisingly mellow." Props to BioWare for the direction they took with those subplots, but unfortunately, the simple lack of decisions you get with them appears to hold back their potential overall. As a replacement for romances, I think a bunch more in-depth dialogue with the characters would have been better, and probably wouldn't have resulted in so many odd factions supporting/hating such and such a character. I didn't mind the romances personally, but clearly many others have complaints about them, and it seems to be the worst with Tali's.

Edit: Sorry about bumping this thread up again, a troll invaded the other one so I'm moving back here. >_>

Modifié par Water Dumple, 30 juillet 2010 - 09:24 .