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[I_Raps]

Kaldor Silverwand wrote...
Do you mean that there is a scarcity of certain gems that limits enchanting? Or do you mean they mistakenly left some gems out that are required for enchanting?

A general scarcity of all the crafting gems.  Practically none drop or are sold.  The crafting merchant also has limited supplies of the basics like iron ingots and leather which should be unlimited, as I recall.

Modifié par I_Raps, 15 janvier 2011 - 11:02 .

[Kaldor Silverwand]

Kaldor Silverwand wrote...

manageri wrote...

Could you make the alignment shift on Eternal Rest an option in the 2da? I read the stuff about it in the old thread you linked and since there's a legitimate non-altruistic use for it (good spirit energy return without increasing craving) I wouldn't consider it a good action.

I'm not sure.  There is the action itself, the end, and the intent. The action of Eternal Rest does not torture those affected, so it is not evil. The end is that they are released from undeath which is seemingly a good thing. The intention may be to either help them or to help yourself.  Selfishness may not be good, but it also may not be evil, since the act you are doing is still good.

So overall, my reasoning is that Eternal Rest is a good action even if you are doing it for selfish reasons.

I suppose this could be an option though.  I'll look into it.

This looks like a one line change in one script, so I've gone ahead and included it. There may be conversations that allow Eternal Rest to be done as an option. If so then they might still alter the alignment. But the script itself shouldn't do it anymore.

[kevL]

hi I_Raps & Kaldor,

I_Raps wrote...

A general scarcity of all the crafting gems.  Practically none drop or are sold.  The crafting merchant also has limited supplies of the basics like iron ingots and leather which should be unlimited, as I recall.

I agree, there is a general scarcity of Gems, not to mention OC-essences, in MotB (although the crafting system from OC works in MotB, right). I'm not too sure it's a proper thing for the MotB Makeover, though (up to KS, of course). not too sure how your script-fu is, but I'll just mention more as an idea, what I did in the PIA: included an optional script that puts gems and essences into creature inventories.

If you look it can easily be expanded (and I hope to do so) to include other crafting materials, etc. etc. Also with a little script-fu, such a drop table can be called from other, more elaborate systems like the MakeOvers (if & when they Override the default OnSpawn script). The way it's set up in the PIA, it also runs with the OnHeartbeat - which I admit is a bit edgy, but doing so allows for more choices by the enduser(s). & so far I haven't encountered a problem.


Regarding Eternal Rest and Devour Spirit. The main complaint I saw about the original implementation of Devour Spirit, was that Paladins were turning neutral / evil before getting Eternal Rest. So Obsidian took it out. In my own game I've altered these scripts as follows; it doesn't seem to be a disagreement with Kaldor's view. I leave DS with 1pt. evil shift, since it's that gloating satisfaction of craving Evil enjoys, and 1 or 2pts. shift Chaotic depending on whether or not the PC is already chaotic.

Eternal Rest gets 1 pt. shift Good, as a sanctimonious act; it also shifts Lawful 1 or 2 pts. (depending on whether or not the PC is already lawful), since the idea is to prevent chaotic spirits from floating around where they shouldn't be. I'm aware some persons think the whole Ethics / Morals thing ought be done away with entirely, and won't go there. The idea, here, is to put the pressure on Paladins to renounce their personal cravings, using it only as necessary, until they get ER.


note there's other Spirit feats not addressed in this ramble

edit - oh, and Kaldor, feel free to snatch ideas if & as you like.

Modifié par kevL, 16 janvier 2011 - 08:37 .

[puiwaihin]

Kaldor Silverwand wrote...

Why is the enchantment book worthless in MotB? There seems to be no lack of essences and the MotB recipes are all available online or in game. What do you feel is missing?

For me it's not about the availability of the SoZ recipe material, it's the usefulness of them.  The enchantment book lets you add the enchantments from SoZ onto items.  But even the most powerful SoZ enchantments are underpowered in MoTB as soon as you get your first MoTB essence.  So there would really be no point to using them.  And the wondrous items you can craft are likewise of little benefit next to what you can make with the MoTB crafting system.

As I understand it, part of the purpose of the makeover is to take the functionality of SoZ and give it to MoTB.  So, if we are going to have books to craft with, also include recipes for MoTB crafting.

[Kaldor Silverwand]

I'm going to leave crafting as it is. The makeover will allow SoZ recipes to be used. That they are underpowered for an epic level campaign isn't something I'm going to address. Since crafting is completely optional anyway I see no reason to spend more time on it than I already have.

[Kaldor Silverwand]

Two days fighting with the imaging machine in the Academy. Now it should work with player created party members, the PC, MotB companions, Ammon Jerro, and the additional optional companions.



Thing I learned: If you set the tag of something to a string that contains a space. The space is automatically removed from the tag name. That fact cost me several hours.

[Kaldor Silverwand]

Finally finished (I think) the modifications for Act II today. Act III is much smaller, so hopefully the end is in sight.

[Hellfire_RWS]

YAY

[Kaldor Silverwand]

You would think that a party of 15 epic characters would be able to get through the lower level of the Dead God's Vault. Not being able to rest definitely makes some of the battles difficult, even for a busload sized party.

[Kaldor Silverwand]

I've decided to release the current test version of the MotB Makeover SoZ Edition. This test version includes Act I and Act II and if you choose to install it then consider yourself a beta tester. The final release will probably require that you uninstall the test release, so MAKE A COPY OF YOUR NWN2 MOTB CAMPAIGN FOLDER BEFORE INSTALLING THIS!!! YOU WILL NEED IT TO UNINSTALL.

I hope that is clear enough. The MotB Makeover has the same requirements as the OC Makeover. It requires the OC, MotB, and SoZ be installed. It is not compatible with mods like Kaedrin's PrC pack that alter the standard module scripts or player menu. It is also not compatible with mods that alter the standard MotB companion conversations or purport to be MotB bug fixes. If you are going to test, please make sure you are patched and have no overrides installed. (Tony K's AI should be ok.)

I should also point out that if you play this test version through the end of Act II and then download and install the final version when it is released you will have to reinstall the Makeover but you should not have to restart the game. But depending on any bugs that are reported and fixed, it may be necessary to restart. I don't expect that, but just in case you should save frequently and keep multiple saves at different stages of the game.

Also, because of the length of the filepaths, you should probably unzip the makeover in your root directory and then install form there. Otherwise the unzipping may fail because of file path length exceeding some arbitrary limit in Windows.

Please post feedback here, but please do not give away any of the secrets. When in doubt PM or email me instead.

The test version of the MotB Makeover is at .... The final release will be posted in the vault. That may not be for another month or so.

Regards

Modifié par Kaldor Silverwand, 30 janvier 2011 - 05:43 .

[Kaldor Silverwand]

The first official completed release of the MotB Makeover SoZ Editon (v20110129) is now posted and will be available once the vault entry is approved. I've discontinued access to the test version.

Regards

Modifié par Kaldor Silverwand, 30 janvier 2011 - 07:45 .

[Kaldor Silverwand]

For those who started playing the MotB Makeover with a test release you will be relieved to know that your saved games should work fine with the new release as long as you haven't already spoken to Mephasm. If you have then you should go back to a save from before that point. Otherwise some of the later conversations may be confused (mostly if your main PC is female).

Regards

Modifié par Kaldor Silverwand, 30 janvier 2011 - 07:46 .

[Kaldor Silverwand]

I'm looking into crafting options for creating recipes for MotB enchanting as requested by more than one person, but I have to ask those who do craft (I don't), what is the advantage of the SoZ recipes over the crafting in MotB? From what I've read the MotB essences have included with them explanations for what they can be used for, and the Enchanter's Satchel allows you to craft anywhere, and Safiya has the crafting skills needed and she is basically a required companion. So why go to the trouble of creating a bunch of recipes?

[Kaldor Silverwand]

I've found two more bugs in the standard SoZ crafting routines. So I'll probably be releasing a patch for crafting anyway. Still undecided on creating a bunch of recipes though.

[Kaldor Silverwand]

I have an improved version of SoZ crafting now. It fixes several problems in the original code including deleting spells only from the crafter, excluding certain party members from spell deletion even though they were included in spell checking, relying on spell caster level rather than total levels, checking only the crafter for reagents, requiring all spells when multiple spells listed rather than any one of them. It is also completely independent of the crafting 2da and instead relies upon local variables on the recipe. This means that additional recipes can be added into the game easily without requiring any 2da merging (recipe packs?)



I'm testing with weapon enchantments rights now. A couple of areas of concern are:

- determining a fair price for a recipe (should price vary based on strength of enchantment?)

- determining a fair gp cost. It seems that it is cheaper to craft than purchase items, but I think that is backwards. Because it is cheaper crafting can be used to generate cash too easily and create a multitude of magic items. It seems to me that crafting should be more expensive and is something you do because you want precisely the features you want, so you should be willing to pay a high price for it.

- how to add new recipes into the game. Ideally they would be placed in stores, but that is a problem if you have already opened a store. I don't think random creature drops make sense. Area on enter scripts may allow placing some in containers, but some areas don't have them.



Whatever I would do, it should be compatible with both the OC and MotB Makeovers.



Thoughts?

[kilroy1266]

I will be purchasing MotB today or tomorrow using the Steam download and look forward to using your apdaptations after I've completed the campaign once.

I appreciate your thoughtful approach to the modifications you are doing.

On your most recent post:
- determining a fair price for a recipe (should price vary based on strength of enchantment?) - YES
- determining a fair gp cost. It seems that it is cheaper to craft than purchase items, but I think that is backwards. Because it is cheaper crafting can be used to generate cash too easily and create a multitude of magic items. It seems to me that crafting should be more expensive and is something you do because you want precisely the features you want, so you should be willing to pay a high price for it. - I think it should be less expensive to make items, than to buy them, but it should be difficult.  Also, is there a way to downgrade the amount of money you get from selling to the stores?  My thought is that the shops act like Pawn Brokers. They give you pennies on the dollar, then mark the item up by 1000% to sell it.
- how to add new recipes into the game. Ideally they would be placed in stores, but that is a problem if you have already opened a store. I don't think random creature drops make sense. Area on enter scripts may allow placing some in containers, but some areas don't have them. - I think "lower level" recipes should be in store and more powerful ones should be placed in specific areas.  Also, if possible, maybe certain ones can be tied to a conversation path taken with an NPC. I don't know dididly about the complexity of doing that, but it would be cool to get a clue about speaking to Morton about a way to make a triple-headed spider thumper!

Thanks for your work and willingness to solicit feedback, no matter how ignorant.

[Kaldor Silverwand]

Thanks for the feedback.



Stores do have markup/markdown percentages that can be applied. They apply to all items in the store. Generally I think items generally are purchased at 60% of their price and purchased at 125%, but the percentages can vary depending on the relationship to the shopkeeper and appraise skill.



Overriding conversations to give recipes can certainly be done. It is just something that would require a lot of work to do for a lot of recipes if one wanted to add the crafting system on to an existing campaign. Just doing it for special recipes wouldn't be a problem.



Regards