101 réponses à ce sujet

[Lady Dino]

*Spoiler Warning for those of you who haven't got to Redcliffe yet*

After reading the books and then playing the game, I was saddened by the fact that Alistair held his father in such low regard.

Not that I don't understand why Alistair feels that way, given what he was told/knows about his father. It just makes me sad.

I was wondering who else here thinks that the two would have gotten along smashingly well, perhaps even better then Maric and Cailan? How do you think they would react to meeting one another? Have any scenarios, no matter how fantastical or comedic, in mind? Care to share with the rest of us?

[Addai]

It is indeed very sad. Think about it, Maric was alive and king when Alistair was sent off to the Chantry. He could have intervened and didn't. Whatever his reasons, it sucks big-time. I like both characters but sometimes I don't know why I like Maric so much.



Flemeth's prophecy definitely came to fruition: "You will hurt the ones you love the most."

[wicked_being]

I just finished reading The Stolen Throne last night, good read. I was actually reading Maric's lines with Alistair's voice. They just feel so...alike.

Modifié par wicked_being, 26 juillet 2010 - 04:03 .

[Sarah1281]

I think it would be sadder if Alistair hero-worshipped the father who abandoned him.

[Mdfitz]

maric great man horrible father

[Lady Dino]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I think it would be sadder if Alistair hero-worshipped the father who abandoned him.

I agree. I just think it would have been cool to see how they would react to each other. Who knows, maybe Alistair would change his opinion of Maric if he understood that his birth wasn't the product of a lusty king and a lucky maid.

[AntiChri5]

After a few pages i heard every one of Marics lines in Alistairs voice.

[Addai]

Alistair seems more cynical than Maric, however.  His humor is a little more cutting.

The most glaring place where Alistair's bitterness towards Maric shows through, to my mind, is where he says his father died before his mother did.  It might just be a mistake in the dialogue, but he says it so dismissively that I think you can easily interpret it as "he was dead to me before I was born."

One of the saddest lines in the game, besides how Alistair talks about Eamon, is "I never knew my father..."  He's saying it before the Landsmeet, all these people who could care less about him, some of whom tried to kill him, and some of them knew Maric a lot better than he did.  It really is a cruel twist of Gaider's pen that Alistair gets all the sh*t from his bastard status his whole childhood and then just when he thinks he's free of it, is caught up in the middle of a succession fight.  Being executed for it just puts the cherry on the cake, if that happens.

Modifié par Addai67, 26 juillet 2010 - 05:47 .

[CalJones]

Alistair does get the crappy end of the stick, true. Although I spare Loghain in pretty much every playthrough and hate Alistair's baying for blood, I am not without sympathy for him. He's basically been passed off by Maric, then by Eamon - it's little wonder he lacks confidence due to all the rejection he has endured. It makes me really loathe Eamon, to be honest. If there was an option not to go for the Ashes, I'd let him rot.

[Xandurpein]

I don't think Alistair and Maric would have gotten along very well, considering how Alistair grew up. It may even be a case of them being too alike to get along. Alistair would be resentful at Maric, and would not approve of how irresponsible Maric is, I think.



A "hardened" Alistair is clearly a much better King than Maric. Maric was a pretty bad King in my opinion, even if he was a superb leader of a guerilla band. Alistair is far more responsible.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Xandurpein wrote...
A "hardened" Alistair is clearly a much better King than Maric. Maric was a pretty bad King in my opinion, even if he was a superb leader of a guerilla band. Alistair is far more responsible.

I concur. Maric was a brilliant rebel figurehead, but a very bad king (isn't that almost always the case?). Unhardened Alistair as king? I can see a bit of Maric in that, namely the disinterest to rule properly.
Hardened Alistair on the otherhand makes a decent king, especially since he actually wants to rule.
  

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 27 juillet 2010 - 12:24 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Didn't Maric rule properly until Rowan died then he lost all interest leaving Loghain to make all the decisions?

[KnightofPhoenix]

I am almost inclined to say that it was Rowan that did most of the ruling or an integral part of it (according to Loghain, both Maric and Ferelden needed Rowan for this). She was certainly made for it. But that's speculation on my part.

[Sarah1281]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Didn't Maric rule properly until Rowan died then he lost all interest leaving Loghain to make all the decisions?

I'd call losing all interest in ruling and making other people make the decisions from the moment of your spouse's death onwards a bad King. It's understandable, I suppose, but it didn't make him any better at his job.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Not to mention purposely trying to die while the only heir to the throne is too young to rule (as it turned out, Cailan will always be a child regardless of age). That was an act of sheer idiocy and irresponsability.

[Sarah1281]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Not to mention purposely trying to die while the only heir to the throne is too young to rule (as it turned out, Cailan will always be a child regardless of age). That was an act of sheer idiocy and irresponsability.

Not to mention bad parenting.

[Addai]

Xandurpein wrote...

I don't think Alistair and Maric would have gotten along very well, considering how Alistair grew up. It may even be a case of them being too alike to get along. Alistair would be resentful at Maric, and would not approve of how irresponsible Maric is, I think.

I don't see Maric as irresponsible.  Are you taking that from The Calling?  That is a small snapshot of a long reign, where Maric struggled after losing his wife and in a bit of a mid-life crisis.  The end of TC indicates he went back to the kingship with new vigor.  (Edit:  Besides the fact that in TC, Maric is responding to what he sees as an existential threat to the country and to all Thedas, in a capacity only he or Loghain could have undertaken.)

Anyway, Alistair approves generally of Maric's kingship.  If you ask him about Theirin blood while unhardened, he says something like, "I didn't know my father well, but he seems to have done alright with the kingship.  There are worse things I guess."

A "hardened" Alistair is clearly a much better King than Maric. Maric was a pretty bad King in my opinion, even if he was a superb leader of a guerilla band. Alistair is far more responsible.

I disagree.  I think a hardened Alistair is much like Maric was.  Maric was "hardened" by Katriel.  Not sure why you have such a negative opinion of Maric's rule.  He united the country after the rebellion- the codex describes how contentious the Landsmeets were after the rebellion and mentions Maric specifically as one who led the country through that.  And after he dies, the kingdom begins to unravel, even with Loghain still around.  It was Maric who was the glue of a reconstructed Ferelden.

Modifié par Addai67, 27 juillet 2010 - 03:22 .

[Addai]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Didn't Maric rule properly until Rowan died then he lost all interest leaving Loghain to make all the decisions?

For about a two-year period, that seems to be the picture.  He is ruling, but kind of like an empty shell.  After the events of The Calling he re-assumed the kingship with renewed sense of purpose.

[errant_knight]

Xandurpein wrote...

I don't think Alistair and Maric would have gotten along very well, considering how Alistair grew up. It may even be a case of them being too alike to get along. Alistair would be resentful at Maric, and would not approve of how irresponsible Maric is, I think.

A "hardened" Alistair is clearly a much better King than Maric. Maric was a pretty bad King in my opinion, even if he was a superb leader of a guerilla band. Alistair is far more responsible.

Well, he can forgive Eamon and Isolde, so there's a good chance he would have forgiven Maric, if he'd been given the chance. The things he finds unforgivable have to do with other people, not himself.

Can't comment on Maric's kingship, not having read the books.

Not having been given the chance, though, I'd say he's a bit bitter.

Modifié par errant_knight, 27 juillet 2010 - 03:50 .

[jpdipity]

I never got the impression that Loghain or Rowan was the force behind Maric who ruled the country.



In the Calling, Maric says that Rowan and he worked tirelessly to repair the nation and Maric had to make many hard decisions - it is specifically noted that it was Maric that made those decisions.



It seems to me that during Maric's 2 yr depression period after Rowan's death, Loghain likely stepped in to help - Loghain states that Maric barely lifted a finger since his return (implying that he was gone before Rowan's death). This was clearly a temporary thing because at the end of the TST (which takes place after the Calling), it is noted that Loghain avoided court while Rowan was alive and still was never at court during the present day.



Not to mention, I think Loghain had a level of respect for Maric that he did not for anyone else. Although, he vocally expressed his opinions to Maric, those opinions were often swayed or held at bay by Maric.



I think Alistair is bitter, but I also think that he would have worked to build a strong relationship with Maric had he been given the chance. I believe that Alistair and Maric would have been able to relate much more closer to one another than Cailan/Maric could ever have done so.

[BramAlam12345]

If you believe that Katriel is Alistair's mother, than Maric's treatment of Alistair makes more sense. Katriel wanted her son to be free of the burdens of both his parents and convinced Maric to follow her wishes in this matter.



I like the idea of K being A's mom, even though it is "kinda" contradicted in Origins. The Maric in the books doesn't seem the type to chase after peasant washer-women. In fact, he doesn't seem the type to have random flings at all.

[Lady Dino]

BramAlam12345 wrote...

If you believe that Katriel is Alistair's mother, than Maric's treatment of Alistair makes more sense. Katriel wanted her son to be free of the burdens of both his parents and convinced Maric to follow her wishes in this matter.

I like the idea of K being A's mom, even though it is "kinda" contradicted in Origins. The Maric in the books doesn't seem the type to chase after peasant washer-women. In fact, he doesn't seem the type to have random flings at all.

Although I also kinda wish this was true, I think you are talking about Fiona not Katriel.

[BramAlam12345]

Lady Dino wrote...

BramAlam12345 wrote...

If you believe that Katriel is Alistair's mother, than Maric's treatment of Alistair makes more sense. Katriel wanted her son to be free of the burdens of both his parents and convinced Maric to follow her wishes in this matter.

I like the idea of K being A's mom, even though it is "kinda" contradicted in Origins. The Maric in the books doesn't seem the type to chase after peasant washer-women. In fact, he doesn't seem the type to have random flings at all.

Although I also kinda wish this was true, I think you are talking about Fiona not Katriel.

Heh heh... oops....

[Sarah1281]

Even if Fiona is the mother and Maric was just trying to give his son a better life...that does NOT excuse him for letting Eamon up and send him to the Chantry to be enslaved as a Templar.