135 réponses à ce sujet

[BlackyBlack]

Wall of text warning

It may come as a surprise to some of you, but BioWare doesn't exist to fulfill a small vocal minority's wishes. It's a company who's main purpose is to make money and to do that they need to appease the majority of gamers, not the RPG elitists (also known as the biggest whiners in the world)

Someone said in a article: "if the combat ain't broke don't fix it". Well, a lot of console players thought it WAS broke. And guess what: THEY CHANGED THE CONSOLE COMBAT, NOT THE PC COMBAT.

Before release a lot of people complained why the PC isn't voiced. I don't really care whether you prefer ME or DAO (or which story), but you've got to admit the presentation is much better in ME because it's more cinematic. Avatar isn't the best selling movie ever 'cos of its story, it's the presentation that matters. And ME2 sold more than DAO (if my info is wrong and DAO sold more it's probably because it was released on three different systems)

People need to remember that RPG doesn't mean "isometric game with no voice acting and floating stats". There's all kinds of different genres of RPG (turn based RPGs like Fallout, Action RPGs like Mass Effect, JRPGs like FF etc.). So while its currently unknown in which genre the console version lies, EVERY INFO ON THE PC VERSION WE'VE GOTTEN SUGGESTS THE PC VERSION IS MOSTLY UNCHANGED

Complete character customization has NEVER been what defines an RPG. Planescape: Torment, The Witcher, JRPGs none of those have character customization. Of course, I understand what everybody's problem is with it, it's because Origins had it. It's a marketing mistake they named it DA2 (read the last paragraph of this post)

A lot of suggestings have been said in this forums like making multiple voice actiors for the protagonist, but do any of you have any idea how much that costs? People really need to start seeing things from the devs eyes. Game making is a very expensive and long process. GTA4 had a budget of $100M.

Anyway, back to my point in the topic. If you had a choice whether to make a lot of money or huge sh!tload of money, would YOU really choose otherwise? I may be wrong, but I think that PEOPLE LIKE MONEY

Of course, nothing ANYONE is going to say is going to change the haters' minds. Haters still gonna hate even though they know almost nothing about the game

And one last thing, the game is called DRAGON AGE, not "Mute Gay Warden's story". Although there is problem with naming it DA2 as another forumite pointed out to me. They should have just named it Dragon Age: _____ and sold it off as a another game set in the DA universe, not a sequel. It's a huge marketing mistake

[Vaeliorin]

BlackyBlack wrote...
Before release a lot of people complained
why the PC isn't voiced. I don't really care whether you prefer ME or
DAO (or which story), but you've got to admit the presentation is much
better in ME because it's more cinematic. Avatar isn't the best selling
movie ever 'cos of its story, it's the presentation that matters. And ME2 sold more than DAO (if my info is wrong and DAO sold more it's probably because it was released on three different systems)

Best selling != good.  In fact, generally, best selling = mindless drivel.

BlackyBlack wrote...

Anyway, back to my point in the topic. If
you had a choice whether to make a lot of money or huge sh!tload of
money, would YOU really choose otherwise?

I'd rather make a
lot of money with a product I thought was excellent than a "huge
sh!tload" of money on a product I thought was inferior.  Everything I've
heard about DA2 makes it sound inferior to me (voiced protagonist,
dialogue wheel, new art style, faster combat without any mention of
fixing the actual problems with the combat system such as stat
imbalance, class imbalance, etc.)

That isn't to say that I think
DA2 is going to be a bad game.  It'll probably still be fun (I'm
hoping.)  But as far as I'm concerned, it won't be as good as DA, and
unless Bioware manages to really surprise me, I doubt it will be
something I'd consider an RPG.

Modifié par Vaeliorin, 26 juillet 2010 - 01:06 .

[BlackyBlack]

Vaeliorin wrote...

Best selling != good.  In fact, generally, best selling = mindless drivel.

I think you missed the point of my post, BIOWARE LIKES MAKING MONEY JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE

I don't really care about YOUR opinion. It's the majority's opinion that matters and in ME2's case the majority:

http://social.biowar...596/polls/1670/
http://social.biowar...093/polls/1659/
http://social.biowar...596/polls/4081/

GameSpot User Scores:
ME1: 9.1 360, 8.9 PC
ME2: 9.4 360, 9.2 PC
DAO: 8.8 360, 9.0 PC, 8.8 PS3

Modifié par BlackyBlack, 26 juillet 2010 - 01:15 .

[Captain Iglo]

Vaeliorin wrote...

I'd rather make a
lot of money with a product I thought was excellent than a "huge
sh!tload" of money on a product I thought was inferior.

And that would be the reason why you better should not start a company
an attitude like that would either lead to bankruptcy or hostile takeover in todays market...especially in the area of game development.

[Vaeliorin]

BlackyBlack wrote...

Vaeliorin wrote...
Best selling != good.  In fact, generally, best selling = mindless drivel.

I think you missed the point of my post, BIOWARE LIKES MAKING MONEY JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE

I imagine they also like making something of which they can be proud.  That's not to say they won't be proud of DA2, but it's not something I'd be proud of, because it's going in a direction I personally find inferior.

I don't really care about YOUR opinion. It's the majority's opinion that matters and in ME2's case the majority:

They why'd you ask?

To quote your OP:

BlackyBlack wrote...
If you had a choice whether to make a lot of money or huge sh!tload of money, would YOU really choose otherwise?

Captain Iglo wrote...

Vaeliorin wrote...
I'd rather
make a lot of money with a product I thought was excellent than a "huge
sh!tload" of money on a product I thought was inferior.

And that would be the reason why you better should not start a company
an
attitude like that would either lead to bankruptcy or hostile takeover
in todays market...especially in the area of game development.

I know.  Principles and big business don't mix, sadly.

Modifié par Vaeliorin, 26 juillet 2010 - 01:19 .

[Rubbish Hero]

Peter Jackson pressurized to make Lord Of the Rings into one single  movie. Did he do it? No, he say it compromise movie. Peter Jackson  pressurized into having intro sequence for each movie after Fellowship  of The Ring explain everything. Did he do it? No. Peter Jackson change art style to make contemporary with whats hot at the moment with
mainstream? No, art style classical fantasy. Lord Of The Rings massive  blockbuster, far bigger than any Bioware game. Did Jackson sell out for  the sake of squeezing larger profit? No. Will Lord Of The Rings remain better than  anything Bioware will ever produce? Obviously. Gaming Happy Meal in  paper bag targeting demographics. Bioware no Peter Jackson. No excause for crappy cwap.

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 26 juillet 2010 - 01:41 .

[Roland Aseph]

They should have just named it Dragon Age: _____ and sold it off as a another game set in the DA universe, not a sequel. It's a huge marketing mistake

You're assuming that DA2 will sell better than Origins...that's yet to be seen. Time will tell.

Though I do agree with your above statement 100%

[BlackyBlack]

Vaeliorin wrote...

I don't really care about YOUR opinion. It's the majority's opinion that matters and in ME2's case the majority:

They why'd you ask?

To quote your OP:

BlackyBlack wrote...
If you had a choice whether to make a lot of money or huge sh!tload of money, would YOU really choose otherwise?

You misunderstood. I was refering to the quote: Best selling != good.  In fact, generally, best selling = mindless drivel.

You don't seem to like any best selling games, but the majority does, that's why they're best selling. It's only YOUR OPINION that they're all mostly crap

[BlackyBlack]

@ Rubbish Hero

LoTR is one of the worst trilogies I've ever seen in my life

[Valmy]

BlackyBlack wrote...
Game making is a very expensive and long process. GTA4 had a budget of $100M.

This is the key to me.  Today's games, if they are going to be up to current technology, are ridiculously expensive.  If Bioware wants to avoid sinking into indy niche status they have to make games that are going to get more than $100M in sales in order to simply recoup the budget.

That requires them to be more appealing to the mainstream.  So far they have managed to do that while still making incredible games, IMO anyway, and hopefully they will continue to do so.  Awakenings aside...

Modifié par Valmy, 26 juillet 2010 - 01:26 .

[Rubbish Hero]

BlackyBlack wrote...

@ Rubbish Hero

LoTR is one of the worst trilogies I've ever seen in my life

It's too bad I not read this, everyone else in the world with actual credibility disagree's and you are not a relevant human being. Perhaps come back as Jesus, people care what you think yes?

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 26 juillet 2010 - 01:27 .

[Valmy]

Vaeliorin wrote...
I imagine they also like making something of which they can be proud.  That's not to say they won't be proud of DA2, but it's not something I'd be proud of, because it's going in a direction I personally find inferior.

I think I will be open minded enough to see the finished product first.

Anyway the boards  HATED Dragon Age: Origins and the release led to weeks of haters pouring their scorn on the inferior product...and now we are all upset they are going in a different direction from Dragon Age: Origins.  Kinda funny really.

[Captain Iglo]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

Peter Jackson pressurized to make Lord Of the Rings into one single  movie. Did he do it? No, he say it compromise movie. Peter Jackson  pressurized into having intro sequence for each movie after Fellowship  of The Ring explain everything. Did he do it? No. Peter Jackson change art style to make contemporary with whats hot at the moment with
mainstream? No, art style classical fantasy. Lord Of The Rings massive  blockbuster, far bigger than any Bioware game. Did Jackson sell out for  the sake of squeezing larger profit? No. Will Lord Of The Rings remain better than  anything Bioware will ever produce? Obviously. Gaming Happy Meal in  paper bag targeting demographics. Bioware no Peter Jackson. No excause for crappy cwap.

ähm...new lines would have never put so much money and trust in it, if they did not already have the fanbase of one of the best selling books of all time...they actually didnt need to worry about enough audience

[Herr Uhl]

BlackyBlack wrote...

You misunderstood. I was refering to the quote: Best selling != good.  In fact, generally, best selling = mindless drivel.

You don't seem to like any best selling games, but the majority does, that's why they're best selling. It's only YOUR OPINION that they're all mostly crap

Quality is not decided by a majority vote, just as truth isn't. Just look at the Twilight series.

[Valmy]

Captain Iglo wrote...

Vaeliorin wrote...

I'd rather make a
lot of money with a product I thought was excellent than a "huge
sh!tload" of money on a product I thought was inferior.

And that would be the reason why you better should not start a company
an attitude like that would either lead to bankruptcy or hostile takeover in todays market...especially in the area of game development.

If it was indeed true you could make a niche game and make a lot of money then it would be an accurate statement.  It is more like you are a top seller and survive or you are not a top seller and become a small developer..

[BlackyBlack]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

It's too bad I not read this, everyone else in the world with actual credibility disagree's and you are not a relevant human being. Perhaps come back as Jesus, people care what you think yes?

Now you know how your opinion of DA2 feels to everybody else

Modifié par BlackyBlack, 26 juillet 2010 - 01:36 .

[Arttis]

I like money...but once i have all hte money i need to live my life in comfort....i am gonna need a damn good game to play.

[Valmy]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

Peter Jackson pressurized to make Lord Of the Rings into one single  movie. Did he do it? No, he say it compromise movie. Peter Jackson  pressurized into having intro sequence for each movie after Fellowship  of The Ring explain everything. Did he do it? No. Peter Jackson change art style to make contemporary with whats hot at the moment with
mainstream? No, art style classical fantasy. Lord Of The Rings massive  blockbuster, far bigger than any Bioware game. Did Jackson sell out for  the sake of squeezing larger profit? No. Will Lord Of The Rings remain better than  anything Bioware will ever produce? Obviously. Gaming Happy Meal in  paper bag targeting demographics. Bioware no Peter Jackson. No excause for crappy cwap.

According to lots of LoTR fans Jackson did sell out for larger profits.  Those movies got HAMMERED by alot of hardcore fans.

Bioware is selling out ot the extent they need to remain competitive and survive with the huge budgets of today...and they do make good games not crappy ones.  Will any of them be up to the level of Lord of the Rings?  Um probably not but that is a pretty tall order.

[Bobad]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

BlackyBlack wrote...

@ Rubbish Hero

LoTR is one of the worst trilogies I've ever seen in my life

It's too bad I not read this, everyone else in the world with actual credibility disagree's and you are not a relevant human being. Perhaps come back as Jesus, people care what you think yes?

Well I thought Lord of the Rings were the best films I have ever seen, but I wouldn't want DA to start aping them as I am happy with the direction they are headed.

Given the length of time the universe has existed and the amount of time humans have existed, coupled with the amount of humans that have lived and died, I would say it's fairly certain that no human being is relevant.

[BlackyBlack]

Roland Aseph wrote...

You're assuming that DA2 will sell better than Origins...that's yet to be seen. Time will tell.

I wasn't assuming anything. My point was less people would be angry if they didn't name it DA2 and sold it off as just another game in the DA universe, not a sequel. Here, this guy explains it better than I do

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Had this not been named Dragon Age 2 but rather a game set in the Dragon Age setting then people might be more open as they would not be comparing it to DA:O nor expect it to be the same, but it is and so they are.

FlintlockJazz wrote...

BlackyBlack wrote...

Maybe you have a point, it's a marketing mistake. They should have named it Dragon Age: ____

Exactly, from my understanding the Dragon Age games were intended to establish a new franchise for them to make games in, kind of like how the Forgotten Realms is used as a setting but not every game is a sequel to the last.  We have Half-Life 2 but before that we had Half-Life:Blue Shift, Decay, etc.  Hell we could have a Dragon Age wargame as long as they didn't called it DA3! [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/policeman.png[/smilie]

Modifié par BlackyBlack, 26 juillet 2010 - 01:36 .

[Rubbish Hero]

Captain Iglo wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...

Peter Jackson pressurized to make Lord Of the Rings into one single  movie. Did he do it? No, he say it compromise movie. Peter Jackson  pressurized into having intro sequence for each movie after Fellowship  of The Ring explain everything. Did he do it? No. Peter Jackson change art style to make contemporary with whats hot at the moment with mainstream? No, art style classical fantasy. Lord Of The Rings massive  blockbuster, far bigger than any Bioware game. Did Jackson sell out for  the sake of squeezing larger profit? No. Will Lord Of The Rings remain better than  anything Bioware will ever produce? Obviously. Gaming Happy Meal in  paper bag targeting demographics. Bioware no Peter Jackson. No excause for crappy cwap.

ähm...new lines would have never put so much money and trust in it, if they did not already have the fanbase of one of the best selling books of all time...they actually didnt need to worry about enough audience

They did though regardless of a core base, wanted alot of things changed, more money, more accessibility.
Like Dragon Age,without the whole  " selling out" thing. Thank golly gosh Peter made this and not Bioware. Otherwise we listen to pretentious Mass Effect conversations for 30 minutes with elf boobs cleavage hanging out and cringe worthy sex scenes with leaky oil cliche character eyes.

Mass Effect mature sophisticated game, for those high in gene pool.

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 26 juillet 2010 - 01:40 .

[Vaeliorin]

BlackyBlack wrote...

Vaeliorin wrote...

I don't really care about YOUR opinion. It's the majority's opinion that matters and in ME2's case the majority:

They why'd you ask?

To quote your OP:

BlackyBlack wrote...
If you had a choice whether to make a lot of money or huge sh!tload of money, would YOU really choose otherwise?

You misunderstood. I was refering to the quote: Best selling != good.  In fact, generally, best selling = mindless drivel.

You don't seem to like any best selling games, but the majority does, that's why they're best selling. It's only YOUR OPINION that they're all mostly crap

They were good 10-15 years ago.

Of course, gaming was still a niche market then.

I'm still waiting for a proper new Descent sequel.

Valmy wrote...

Vaeliorin wrote...
I imagine they
also like making something of which they can be proud.  That's not to
say they won't be proud of DA2, but it's not something I'd be proud of,
because it's going in a direction I personally find inferior.

I think I will be open minded enough to see the finished product first.

Anyway
the boards  HATED Dragon Age: Origins and the release led to weeks of
haters pouring their scorn on the inferior product...and now we are all
upset they are going in a different direction from Dragon Age: Origins.
 Kinda funny really.

Well, I am still planning on getting DA2.  I just don't think it will fit my personal preferences as well as DA did (but I'm old school like that.  I'd honestly prefer if it were true turn-based, like Jagged Alliance or Realms of Arkania.)

Anyway, I'd argue the old pre-release boards for DA were nothing like this, probably because there were a lot less people and we were generally there because we wanted something like the old Bioware games, and we got something kind of close with DA.  DA2 doesn't seem like it's going to have that old-school feel to it.

Modifié par Vaeliorin, 26 juillet 2010 - 01:58 .

[Bobad]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

snip.

Those look better in the black loyalty outfit.

Modifié par Bobad, 26 juillet 2010 - 01:38 .

[Captain Iglo]

Vaeliorin wrote...

I'm still waiting for a proper new Descent sequel.

Woah!...Uber-Flashback!
one of the first games I've played...I had no Idea what was going on back then but I loved it!

[BlackyBlack]

@tez19

Funny, that's exactly what everybody else says about the DA2 and ME2 haters

You didn't even explain what's wrong with my post. I was only stating the truth and pointing out logical things. Next time try writing something a little bit more intelligent

Just a note: Not everybody has to agree with YOUR opinion. So stop being a troll

Modifié par BlackyBlack, 26 juillet 2010 - 03:14 .