135 réponses à ce sujet

[TheSeeker2654]

I agree that their focus is to appeal to the widest available audience with their games. However, what I DONT agree with is the homogenization of genres in games today. If your going to make an RPG, why are they so worried about it appealing to the shooter crowd? If your going to make a shooter then why are they so worried about getting those RPG guys/girls on board? I mean make a game, pick a genre, and recognize your target audience. No game is going to appeal to everyone, and there is a point of diminishing returns in regards to mass appeal.



You try to do everything and appeal to everyone and you end up with a game that just isnt all that good. I think this is where most devs JUST DONT GET IT. They need to realize who their target audience is, and tailor the game to them. Then after that is done, you make little things here and there to get others on board. For instance. Instead of completely cutting out pretty much all the rpg elements from ME2 (supposedly an RPG), all they needed to do is put in an auto leveling option. Oh wait, they already did that... So what the hell was the point of cutting out all the customization choices. In a gameplay/mechanic standpoint all that does is limit choices and make combat more stale and repetitive. I realize that to the shooter crowd this is nothing new. But combat in RPG's has always been more about the mind than the muscle.



In general, devs are going about things the wrong way. To gain mass appeal you dont need to water your game down. You just need to get creative. If you want to get that tweeny adhd crowd to play your RPG, you dont necessarily need to cut out the RPG elements to keep them out of the menu. All you need is an auto equip, auto level functionality. That way, as soon as they pick up a new badass weapon it auto equips. Or as soon as you level up it will assign skill points into good abilities and skills. Many rpgs already do this. So I dont get what the issue is?

And besides, this is Dragon Age, supposedly a spiritual successor to Baldurs Gate CRPG. With that sort of pedigree serving as inspiration one naturally expects to see certain things. If you want to make some entirely new watered down homgenization of RPG/shooter, then makes something else. But dont try and tell us that its the spiritual successor to BG then.

Modifié par TheSeeker2654, 26 juillet 2010 - 03:25 .

[BlackyBlack]

@imported_beer

I disagree. Everything should evolve. How else are we going to appreciate the good old days ?

Modifié par BlackyBlack, 26 juillet 2010 - 03:23 .

[Gatt9]

BlackyBlack wrote...

Anyway, back to my point in the topic. If you had a choice whether to make a lot of money or huge sh!tload of money, would YOU really choose otherwise? I may be wrong, but I think that PEOPLE LIKE MONEY

Here's your problem.  You're making the incredibly huge assumption that removing the RPG elements from an RPG means you make more money.  Alot of companies now lie bankrupt and lost from that fallacy.  Alienating your customers is widely regarded as the biggest mistake possible in business,  Gaming industry has yet to figure that one out.  I guess it'll take another half dozen studios folding first,  likely including this one at this point judging from ME2 and now this.

The die hard fans cribbed and complained and whined and even protested outside one weekend. But a small group of grumpy old timers cannot keep a company successful. Something they have a hard time comprehending

Either prove definitively with a complete survey of every gamer on the planet these statements or quit strawmaning.

You might also want to realize that it'll take me about 4 seconds to link to dozens of surveys showing the average gamer is the "Grumpy old timer!".

It'd probably be even more helpfull if you'd note that gaming is shrinking at a pretty rapid pace...likely because these "Grumpy old timers!" aren't terribly interested in these ultra-simplified games.

[Collider]

In Bioware's place, I would retexturize Ferelden pink and replace every party member with Jolee Bindo.

[BlackyBlack]

Collider wrote...

In Bioware's place, I would retexturize Ferelden pink and replace every party member with Jolee Bindo.

That would be pretty awesome

[TheSeeker2654]

You guys do realize that the biggest number of gamers, as well as those that are most able to spend alot of money on games are 30+? I mean, you teeny bopper, skinny jeans wearing, emo hair having pansies are a small subsection of the gaming community. Yet like all CHILDREN, you think the world and in this instance the gaming world, revolves around you.

[BlackyBlack]

TheSeeker2654 wrote...

You guys do realize that the biggest number of gamers, as well as those that are most able to spend alot of money on games are 30+?

That's actually pretty sad ...

[Amentep]

TheSeeker2654 wrote...

You guys do realize that the biggest number of gamers, as well as those that are most able to spend alot of money on games are 30+? I mean, you teeny bopper, skinny jeans wearing, emo hair having pansies are a small subsection of the gaming community. Yet like all CHILDREN, you think the world and in this instance the gaming world, revolves around you.

Funnily enough, I seriously doubt teeny bopper, skinny jeans wearing, emo hair having pansies are the ones demanding that the game be exactly like Baldur's Gate or Planescape: Torment...or is that not what you mean about people thinking the gaming world revolves around them...?

[TheSeeker2654]

BlackyBlack wrote...

TheSeeker2654 wrote...

You guys do realize that the biggest number of gamers, as well as those that are most able to spend alot of money on games are 30+?

That's actually pretty sad ...

Im curious to know why that is sad? Gamers who are 30+ are more stable, usually have good jobs and have disposable income. Unless you are referring to the fact that somone 30+ playing games is too old? How is gaming any different then watching movies, reading or any other activity that you enjoy. The days of the mindset that gaming is for children are long gone.

[Collider]

TheSeeker2654 wrote...

You guys do realize that the biggest number of gamers, as well as those that are most able to spend alot of money on games are 30+? I mean, you teeny bopper, skinny jeans wearing, emo hair having pansies are a small subsection of the gaming community. Yet like all CHILDREN, you think the world and in this instance the gaming world, revolves around you.

I did not ask your opinion, geezer. Please take your archaic, outrageously unhip "traditions" back to the mossy and spider filled place it came.

[pprrff]

BlackyBlack wrote...
It's a company who's main purpose is to make money and to do that they need to appease the majority of gamers, not the RPG elitists (also known as the biggest whiners in the world)

I get the feeling that those people would rather see the genre die a slow death than to see any changes  that might attract new players. I played DA as my first bioware game, and I try to go back and play their previous titles and I couldn't stand them (ME being the exception). I am glad they made changes to their games instead of sitting around doing the exact same thing inorder to milking off cash from a what would had been a dwindling fan base.

[Elanareon]

Doesn't change the fact that most of bioware fans likes them because they are the only ones who makes RPG's like they make em before.... OH WAIT THAT'S CHANGING NOW! So will old time bioware fans will still be bioware fans?

[AlanC9]

Gatt9 wrote...
Here's your problem.  You're making the incredibly huge assumption that removing the RPG elements from an RPG means you make more money.  Alot of companies now lie bankrupt and lost from that fallacy.  Alienating your customers is widely regarded as the biggest mistake possible in business,  Gaming industry has yet to figure that one out.  I guess it'll take another half dozen studios folding first,  likely including this one at this point judging from ME2 and now this.

ME2 failed?

[TheSeeker2654]

Amentep wrote...

TheSeeker2654 wrote...

You guys do realize that the biggest number of gamers, as well as those that are most able to spend alot of money on games are 30+? I mean, you teeny bopper, skinny jeans wearing, emo hair having pansies are a small subsection of the gaming community. Yet like all CHILDREN, you think the world and in this instance the gaming world, revolves around you.

Funnily enough, I seriously doubt teeny bopper, skinny jeans wearing, emo hair having pansies are the ones demanding that the game be exactly like Baldur's Gate or Planescape: Torment...or is that not what you mean about people thinking the gaming world revolves around them...?

Actually the other way around. They are the ones that are demanding that the games be watered down so that they dont have to sit in the menu or do anything except go from one plot point to the next mindlessly, until the credits roll.

[AlanC9]

TheSeeker2654 wrote...

BlackyBlack wrote...

TheSeeker2654 wrote...

You guys do realize that the biggest number of gamers, as well as those that are most able to spend alot of money on games are 30+?

That's actually pretty sad ...

Im curious to know why that is sad? Gamers who are 30+ are more stable, usually have good jobs and have disposable income. Unless you are referring to the fact that somone 30+ playing games is too old? How is gaming any different then watching movies, reading or any other activity that you enjoy. The days of the mindset that gaming is for children are long gone.

It's sad for the people who really hate paying for DLC. $5 or $7 is beneath notice for anyone with a real job.

[BlackyBlack]

TheSeeker2654 wrote...

Amentep wrote...

TheSeeker2654 wrote...

You guys do realize that the biggest number of gamers, as well as those that are most able to spend alot of money on games are 30+? I mean, you teeny bopper, skinny jeans wearing, emo hair having pansies are a small subsection of the gaming community. Yet like all CHILDREN, you think the world and in this instance the gaming world, revolves around you.

Funnily enough, I seriously doubt teeny bopper, skinny jeans wearing, emo hair having pansies are the ones demanding that the game be exactly like Baldur's Gate or Planescape: Torment...or is that not what you mean about people thinking the gaming world revolves around them...?

Actually the other way around. They are the ones that are demanding that the games be watered down so that they dont have to sit in the menu or do anything except go from one plot point to the next mindlessly, until the credits roll.

They weren't demanding anything. It was the RPG elitists that demanded NOTHING EVER CHANGED, CHANGE IS HORRIBLE

[TheSeeker2654]

Collider wrote...

TheSeeker2654 wrote... You guys do realize that the biggest number of gamers, as well as those that are most able to spend alot of money on games are 30+? I mean, you teeny bopper, skinny jeans wearing, emo hair having pansies are a small subsection of the gaming community. Yet like all CHILDREN, you think the world and in this instance the gaming world, revolves around you.

I did not ask your opinion, geezer. Please take your archaic, outrageously unhip "traditions" back to the mossy and spider filled place it came.

And in the end your true nature reveals itself. Completely unaffectual, unintelligent, and unhindered by original thought. Oh, and actually, you DID open yourself up to my opinion when you created this thread. Or did you think that you would state your completely unthoughtful, uninsightful, unimaginative, and thoroughly idiotic insights and think that everyone would be just so taken aback by your comments that we would all bow at your feet and worship your "worldly knowledge"

Please, all knowing child, command me for you know all in this world. lol, wow, I cant believe I was ever as clueless as you.

[ROD525]

BlackyBlack wrote...

TheSeeker2654 wrote...

You guys do realize that the biggest number of gamers, as well as those that are most able to spend alot of money on games are 30+?

That's actually pretty sad ...

Please elaborate...why is that sad?

[Amentep]

TheSeeker2654 wrote...

Amentep wrote...

TheSeeker2654 wrote...

You guys do realize that the biggest number of gamers, as well as those that are most able to spend alot of money on games are 30+? I mean, you teeny bopper, skinny jeans wearing, emo hair having pansies are a small subsection of the gaming community. Yet like all CHILDREN, you think the world and in this instance the gaming world, revolves around you.

Funnily enough, I seriously doubt teeny bopper, skinny jeans wearing, emo hair having pansies are the ones demanding that the game be exactly like Baldur's Gate or Planescape: Torment...or is that not what you mean about people thinking the gaming world revolves around them...?

Actually the other way around. They are the ones that are demanding that the games be watered down so that they dont have to sit in the menu or do anything except go from one plot point to the next mindlessly, until the credits roll.

My point is I've seen one group demanding "the world revolve around them" in these forum and its the one that keeps posting about Baldur's Gate and Plansecape: Torment and how DA should be taking their cues from those games.  And those aren't the younger players. 

EDIT: I agree that both groups may exist, but I don't see the purpose in creating a "generation gap" of devisiveness.  We're ultimately all selfish in how we approach threads about games because we all like different things about the games.

Modifié par Amentep, 26 juillet 2010 - 03:47 .

[pprrff]

imported_beer wrote...

BlackyBlack wrote...

@imported_beer

I disagree. Everything should evolve. How else are we going to appreciate the good old days ?

I think you misunderstood me, Blacky. Please let me explain:

I was saying that what we like may not always be in a commercial entity's best interest. I was a child of the BG1 era. I played ULTIMA for crying out loud! 

Firstly:
I am not as quick to assume that the game will be soul-less, dry, appealing only to 14 year olds who are mentally 8, because of the announced changes because I enjoy the way the writers write and *cannot* reasonably believe that no matter how much voice acting or dynamic combat is involved, the writing, story or companions will suck. Some people seem so quick to jump to that conclusion. I cannot.

Secondly:
Case in point: One day Bioware fans were RANTING and raving about a *stupid* DAO trailer with a Marilyn Manson soundtrack. They told them they had destroyed RPGs, they sold out, they sucked. These fans were too selfish to even realize that there were large scale layoffs. In Bioware and in other EA held companies. They were too busy RANTING about Marilyn Manson and how DAO was now totally hack and slash, when the reality is that the people who make it have to work for a living. 

That is why I have little sympathy for the holier than thou who simply crib and whine about commercialization. It is easy to do that. As someone who still co-ops BG2, the easiest thing for me to do is bemoan the end of the era I most loved. I can either see what this new era is, and if I can evolve with it, or I can bow out gracefully from the genre. But I cannot blame Bioware for making a living.

Lol, rational thoughts is not something I expect to find on internet forums.

[In Exile]

Vaeliorin wrote..
Best selling != good.  In fact, generally, best selling = mindless drivel.

That's a pretty offensive claim, you know.

I'd rather make a
lot of money with a product I thought was excellent than a "huge
sh!tload" of money on a product I thought was inferior.  Everything I've
heard about DA2 makes it sound inferior to me (voiced protagonist,
dialogue wheel, new art style, faster combat without any mention of
fixing the actual problems with the combat system such as stat
imbalance, class imbalance, etc.)

What if, shocking though this may be, Bioware (like myself, and I would hope you would give me credit of being of at least average intelligence) happen to think all of these are improvements?  Well, the VO and art style, at any rate. Combat is entirely wait and see.  

I'm sure you didn't mean it this way, and the OP was very leading, but it's still quite unfair to make claims of this sort, as if a subjective preference is objective.