245 réponses à ce sujet

[guru7892]

HopHazzard wrote...

aberdash wrote...

Grommash94 wrote...
We don't know Leliana is telling the truth, however. 

We have no reason to assume she would lie about her past. The dwarf himself says he could just be making up 
stuff.

I have a lot of reason to assume she was lying. The story in Leliana's Song bears very little resemblance to the story she 
told my warden in camp. So she's definitely lying to someone.

jackkel dragon wrote...
The fact that the story may be wrong allows more customization of the story. "Your" Hawke may have been a 
Psychopath, but "I" was told that he was loving and kind. The "haze" around Hawke's legend allows for things to be told 
differently by different players without forcing a "canon."
That's how I took it anyway. Take it or leave it...

Mary Kirby wrote...
 Everything in Thedas is shrouded in uncertainty. Every major event in history is just a story, and most of those stories 
change based on who is telling them. This is a story of some people and events that are very important to Thedas history, 
told by someone who was there. It's skewed, but it's as true and as false as everything else in history.

jackkel dragon wrote...
The fact that the story may be wrong allows more customization of the story. "Your" Hawke may have been a 
Psychopath, but "I" was told that he was loving and kind. The "haze" around Hawke's legend allows for things to be told 
differently by different players without forcing a "canon."

Mary Kirby wrote... The story happens over a long period of time, remember? What he isn't present for, he can certainly find out about from Hawke or other characters later. Or just make up. He's always happy to do that, too.

...so my jesus theory still stands...

David Gaider wrote...

I think that books experiment with narrative structure, and there's no reason not to do it with games. There are possibilities with interactive storytelling that games have barely scratched.

...but its like the gospel according to James Joyce?

[aberdash]

Roland Aseph wrote...

This isn't the same thing as just a plain old story. Come on, surly you get the argument here??

You've already set the story and "canon" if you will into place. We have the World and Histories you created.

We played a game/story IN that world and fans want more.

But you're not giving us a new experience in the DA IP and world. This is a re-telling of a Tale that may or may not be accurate...and from what we've been told thus far, various parts are indeed embellished and/or exaggerated.

This weakens the power and meaning of the narrative across the board. And by creating a fableized (?sp) character and placing them in a story/game setting that is "already" been lived multiplies the problem. We're no longer carving out our own path (within a set framework granted) but rather re-living a set destiny that's already happened and now being retold by someone who's very ability to recall the facts is in question lol

This guys said it pretty well. Gamers a want to go "Ya look how badass I am!" not to be told how bad ass some guy they never heard of was.

God that just made me sound like Peter Molyneux.

Modifié par aberdash, 27 juillet 2010 - 01:38 .

[Malanek]

Mary Kirby wrote...

aberdash wrote...

If you know of a game with a framed narrative that has had great commercial sucess I would love to see it.

Alpha Protocol was the last to do it and it flopped.

Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time

That was a great story in an excellent game. It wasn't just the Sands of Time, the killer twist in the narative came at the end of the third game.

[Bryy_Miller]

aberdash wrote...
God that just made me sound like Peter Molyneux.

Why did you have to go and make me feel sorry for you?

[HopHazzard]

aberdash wrote...

Roland Aseph wrote...

This isn't the same thing as just a plain old story. Come on, surly you get the argument here??

You've already set the story and "canon" if you will into place. We have the World and Histories you created.

We played a game/story IN that world and fans want more.

But you're not giving us a new experience in the DA IP and world. This is a re-telling of a Tale that may or may not be accurate...and from what we've been told thus far, various parts are indeed embellished and/or exaggerated.

This weakens the power and meaning of the narrative across the board. And by creating a fableized (?sp) character and placing them in a story/game setting that is "already" been lived multiplies the problem. We're no longer carving out our own path (within a set framework granted) but rather re-living a set destiny that's already happened and now being retold by someone who's very ability to recall the facts is in question lol

This guys said it pretty well. Gamers a want to go "Ya look how badass I am!" not to be told how bad ass some guy they never heard of was.

God that just made me sound like Peter Molyneux.

So, companies should only make games about people we've heard of before?

[Malanek]

aberdash wrote...

Roland Aseph wrote...

This isn't the same thing as just a plain old story. Come on, surly you get the argument here??

You've already set the story and "canon" if you will into place. We have the World and Histories you created.

We played a game/story IN that world and fans want more.

But you're not giving us a new experience in the DA IP and world. This is a re-telling of a Tale that may or may not be accurate...and from what we've been told thus far, various parts are indeed embellished and/or exaggerated.

This weakens the power and meaning of the narrative across the board. And by creating a fableized (?sp) character and placing them in a story/game setting that is "already" been lived multiplies the problem. We're no longer carving out our own path (within a set framework granted) but rather re-living a set destiny that's already happened and now being retold by someone who's very ability to recall the facts is in question lol

This guys said it pretty well. Gamers a want to go "Ya look how badass I am!" not to be told how bad ass some guy they never heard of was.

God that just made me sound like Peter Molyneux.

Actually I suspect most gamers would love someone else to say how badass they are.

[Bryy_Miller]

Malanek999 wrote...

aberdash wrote...

Roland Aseph wrote...

This isn't the same thing as just a plain old story. Come on, surly you get the argument here??

You've already set the story and "canon" if you will into place. We have the World and Histories you created.

We played a game/story IN that world and fans want more.

But you're not giving us a new experience in the DA IP and world. This is a re-telling of a Tale that may or may not be accurate...and from what we've been told thus far, various parts are indeed embellished and/or exaggerated.

This weakens the power and meaning of the narrative across the board. And by creating a fableized (?sp) character and placing them in a story/game setting that is "already" been lived multiplies the problem. We're no longer carving out our own path (within a set framework granted) but rather re-living a set destiny that's already happened and now being retold by someone who's very ability to recall the facts is in question lol

This guys said it pretty well. Gamers a want to go "Ya look how badass I am!" not to be told how bad ass some guy they never heard of was.

God that just made me sound like Peter Molyneux.

Actually I suspect most gamers would love someone else to say how badass they are.

Like women?

[aberdash]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Why did you have to go and make me feel sorry for you?

To be fair he has a good understanding of what gamers want he just cant implement it very well in his games

HopHazzard wrote...

So, companies should only make games about people we've heard of before?

No, companies should only make games that we play as people we've never heard of before.

[Malanek]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Actually I suspect most gamers would love someone else to say how badass they are.

Like women?

Sure, why not?

[aberdash]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time

Never played but I've never heard its story praised before now. Most of what I hear is how fun the running and jumping is. Will DA2 have fun running and jumping?

[HopHazzard]

aberdash wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...

Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time

Never played but I've never heard its story praised before now. Most of what I hear is how fun the running and jumping is. Will DA2 have fun running and jumping?

Oh, I hope so! If I never encounter another insurmountable waist high fence it will be too soon!

[Grommash94]

aberdash wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...

Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time

Never played but I've never heard its story praised before now. Most of what I hear is how fun the running and jumping is. Will DA2 have fun running and jumping?

The entire game has been praised, story and all.

[Mydalis]

For me, I think this is maybe the most interesting bit of info released so far, and if done well it could be great. But it seems like some people still don't seem to get how you can be part of a story that someone else is telling and still make decisions that matter. Basically, as I understand it, the general idea goes sort of like below. If I'm misunderstanding it someone please feel free to correct me.

Varric: "Let me tell you about Hawke"-> gameplay section, character makes decisions-> back to narrative, "So he risked his life to kill off the Darkspawn? or So he really let all those people die?" or whatever decision the player made in gameplay section, then "Well, tell me about so and so"-> move along in the story, back to gameplay section, decisions etc.

And regarding the framed narrative in Alpha Protocol- I don't actually remember many complaints about the narrative structure or the story itself. That seems to be the part where the game got most of its praise. Unfortunately it had lots of technical and gameplay issues. I still enjoyed it despite those and thought the way it was told helped to add some tension to the game's story.

Being in an entirely different genre I'm not sure how the Bioware writers will approach it in DA2, but they've got a pretty good track record(imo) so I'm certainly willing to give it a chance; I'm sure they have a couple ideas to keep things interesting.

Also...

HopHazzard wrote...

aberdash wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...

Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time

Never played but I've never heard its story praised before now. Most of what I hear is how fun the running and jumping is. Will DA2 have fun running and jumping?

Oh, I hope so! If I never encounter another insurmountable waist high fence it will be too soon!

Lol.

Modifié par Mydalis, 27 juillet 2010 - 02:01 .

[aberdash]

Grommash94 wrote...

The entire game has been praised, story and all.

Just skimmed through a couple reviews and IGN had a 5 page review and 3 of that was for gameplay. Story was never brought up. Gamespot also never mentioned the story but praised gameplay to no end like ign did. Too lazy to look up more but I see a pattern here.

Great gameplay makes up for a lot. So I'm sure if they made a lot of improvement to combat it will sell pretty well. Just look at the Civ series. No story at all and people love it.

Modifié par aberdash, 27 juillet 2010 - 02:10 .

[Grommash94]

aberdash wrote...

Grommash94 wrote...

The entire game has been praised, story and all.

Just skimmed through a couple reviews and IGN had a 5 page review and 3 of that was for gameplay. Story was never brought up. Gamespot also never mentioned the story but praised gameplay to no end like ign did. Too lazy to look up more but I see a pattern here.

Great gameplay makes up for a lot. So I'm sure if they made a lot of improvement to combat it will sell pretty well. Just look at the Civ series. No story at all and people love it.

'shrugs' Play the game; there is a story, and it's pretty good.

[aberdash]

Oh well. As long as the dwarf is just a brief little interlude between "missions" it's probably not really going to be bother me.

[David Gaider]

aberdash wrote...
If you know of a game with a framed narrative that has had great commercial sucess I would love to see it.

Alpha Protocol was the last to do it and it flopped.

It's odd only because I so rarely see people on these forums suggesting we should only do what has been financially successful before.

Well, I guess we'll see, won't we? I suspect you'll dislike what we have planned-- most people who are determined enough to dislike something usually do-- but as a writer I've found it a fun and different take on our usual method of presenting a story. Take that as you will.

[Kileyan]

To be fair, Alpha Protocol was damned to gaming hell over bugs, very old graphics and the clunky implementation of a dice roll combat system in a shooting game. What most reviewers did like was the way they handled the story and the choices you could make during the story. I enjoyed the game and read many reviews, none of the bad reviews I read were centered around the narrative, just the graphics, bugs, animations and basically the fact the game felt unfinished.



Actually many of the reviews pined for a game with Obsidians writing and Biowares polish.



No offense Mr Gaider, your writing is fine, but Obsidian rocks as well:)



Anyways, using Alpha Protocol as the poster boy for narrative stories being bad isn't a good case. It failed for many reasons, but the story telling style wasn't one of them, imho.

[aberdash]

David Gaider wrote...

It's odd only because I so rarely
see people on these forums suggesting we should only do what has been
financially successful before.

Well, I guess we'll see, won't we?
I suspect you'll dislike what we have planned-- most people who are
determined enough to dislike something usually do-- but as a writer I've
found it a fun and different take on our usual method of presenting a
story. Take that as you will.

You'd assume it is a financial success because it does it right so why change it?



Change for the sake of change is rarely a good thing.

Modifié par aberdash, 27 juillet 2010 - 02:43 .

[aberdash]

JoePinasi1989 wrote...

What exactly was changed for the sake of change?

Do you actually think any more thought went into the decision than "this will be fun and different". Really is there is any good reason to change what already works?

[aberdash]

How about reading the thread before asking stupid questions.