245 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

sporky1 wrote...
In Tim O'brien's Things They Carried, a True War Story is defined not by something that actually happened, but that strikes true in finding meaning in war. In other words, even though a story can be completely fake, its point is what makes the story true. It may sound absolutely insane that Hawke does all the things the 3rd person narrator says, but if his version sounds believable in the context of the turbulent state that the events took place.

And as Tolkien once said, allegory is a rubbish way to tell a story.

Oh, and I love how people are criticizing the writer's for not telling the player's what actually happened. Its a game, so it obviously never happened. If anything, the idea that what we se in the game may not necessarily be true just bring it closer to reality.

Urgh.  Obviously what people are asking for is a straight(er) narrative with no tricks, at least no tricks that feel manipulative.  Not whether there actually was a Ferelden?!

Modifié par Addai67, 27 juillet 2010 - 02:59 .

[Mirander]

aberdash wrote...

JoePinasi1989 wrote...

What exactly was changed for the sake of change?

Do you actually think any more thought went into the decision than "this will be fun and different". Really is there is any good reason to change what already works?

Pong worked pretty well, should the game industry have stopped at that?

[aberdash]

JoePinasi1989 wrote...

Since you obviously have and already know the answer, why don't just give it? Or even better give me a link. Please?

This entire now 7 page thread is about changing from the first person perspective of DA:O to being told about a character from a dwarf in DA2...

[aberdash]

Mirander wrote...

Pong worked pretty well, should the game industry have stopped at that?

Creating something new and switching to something else for no reason is not the same thing.

[Roland Aseph]

Ok, perhaps someome in the "know" can tell me/us this about the narrative:



As you play Hawke, do the actions that WE choose (when given a choice) "create" the Story he's telling?



Or is the Story being relayed/told and we transition to the game and play out that part of the narrative?



The former would work I guess IF it was done the right way. But the second option would not, well wouldn't be fun or interesting imo

[Roland Aseph]

aberdash wrote...

JoePinasi1989 wrote...

Since you obviously have and already know the answer, why don't just give it? Or even better give me a link. Please?

This entire now 7 page thread is about changing from the first person perspective of DA:O to being told about a character from a dwarf in DA2...

Well to be honest, a dwarf that embellishes the truth and makes up stuff about areas of the story he "doesn't" know first hand about.

That's the BIG difference for me...

If we were being told the events as they really occurred then that would be a lot better than playing some "dramatized" half-truth re-enactment tale.

But that's just me. 

Modifié par Roland Aseph, 27 juillet 2010 - 03:12 .

[aberdash]

Roland Aseph wrote...

Ok, perhaps someome in the "know" can tell me/us this about the narrative:

As you play Hawke, do the actions that WE choose (when given a choice) "create" the Story he's telling?

Or is the Story being relayed/told and we transition to the game and play out that part of the narrative?

The former would work I guess IF it was done the right way. But the second
option would not, well wouldn't be fun or interesting imo

Its the first option.

It will most likely start out with the dwarf giving some broad statement about what we will be doing while playing Hawke and after you finish it he will go into specifics based on what we just did. This will probably continue throughout the whole game.

But hey I could be wrong just like I was about how the origins would have little effect in the first... oh wait...

Modifié par aberdash, 27 juillet 2010 - 03:18 .

[Roland Aseph]

aberdash wrote...

Roland Aseph wrote...

Ok, perhaps someome in the "know" can tell me/us this about the narrative:

As you play Hawke, do the actions that WE choose (when given a choice) "create" the Story he's telling?

Or is the Story being relayed/told and we transition to the game and play out that part of the narrative?

The
former would work I guess IF it was done the right way. But the second
option would not, well wouldn't be fun or interesting imo

Its the first option.

well that's some consolation I suppose

thx 

[Sphynx118]

Drunk dwarf- "This one time, hawke totally shagged a dragon lul"

*cinematic of hawt dragon humping  starts*

*conversation wheel pops up*

Did hawke enjoy it Yes/No/Maybe?

Modifié par Sphynx118, 27 juillet 2010 - 03:23 .

[Bryy_Miller]

aberdash wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...

Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time

Never played but I've never heard its story praised before now. Most of what I hear is how fun the running and jumping is. Will DA2 have fun running and jumping?

It's posts like these that make me wonder why you still choose to post.

[aberdash]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

It's posts like these that make me wonder why you still choose to post.

Funnily enough I could say the same about you.

My main concern is the narrative is going to be forcing me through the game. If there is enough that we can do between the major plot points then it wont bother me. If we can do side-quests, chat up our party members, screw around in camp for a while, explore a random cave, and then continue on with the story I'm fine with it. But if it is railroading us through the story it is a terrible idea and I will undoubtedly hate it.

Modifié par aberdash, 27 juillet 2010 - 03:38 .

[Massadonious1]

aberdash wrote...

Mirander wrote...

Pong worked pretty well, should the game industry have stopped at that?

Creating something new and switching to something else for no reason is not the same thing.

I'd say switching from a D&D based gameplay system to a non D&D gameplay system worked pretty well.

[aberdash]

Massadonious1 wrote...

I'd say switching from a D&D based gameplay system to a non D&D gameplay system worked pretty well.

If by worked well you mean made mages insanely overpowered you are right. Sure mages in D&D were strong but they weren't death incarnate.

[Kileyan]

aberdash wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

It's posts like these that make me wonder why you still choose to post.

Funnily enough I could say the same about you.

My main concern is the narrative is going to be forcing me through the game. If there is enough that we can do between the major plot points then it wont bother me. If we can do side-quests, chat up our party members, screw around in camp for a while, explore a random cave, and then continue on with the story I'm fine with it. But if it is railroading us through the story it is a terrible idea and I will undoubtedly hate it.

Now this I agree with. I do want random caves, encounters, stuff totally unrelated to the big foozle and the end story.

If the way Bioware approaches this style of story is to just end each mission in a cloud of memory, teleport me back to the story teller, and set me up to be teleported into the next action sequence, I will be upset.

At that point I won't feel like I am part of the world, even if I get to pick my class and skills. I do want the chance to explore random stuff, save a kitty in a tree(or set the tree on fire), meet a rogue guild and steal some stuff. Ya know, a bunch of stuff that isn't in the story of my legend.

If all I am, and all the story is, is what this dwarf tells, it will seem to be a game where you just get teleported into set peice battles over and over.

[Addai]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Roland Aseph wrote...

Isn't having a Non-Canon (imagined, fake..) storyline a waste of time in the IP's grand scheme of things?

What's the point?

Haven't you played DAO? Everything in Thedas is shrouded in uncertainty. Every major event in history is just a story, and most of those stories change based on who is telling them. This is a story of some people and events that are very important to Thedas history, told by someone who was there. It's skewed, but it's as true and as false as everything else in history.

I believe other people have already addressed this, but to me this is not a good analogy.  While the codex and conversations you encounter in Origins all have their "skew," we had the immediacy of our own PC's experience as an anchor in the story.

And this is what makes me nervous about a framed narrative, not as a storytelling device but as an RPG.  Not only are we put at distance from our PC in a gameplay sense by the addition of VO and paraphrases rather than full text, even within the story we're at a distance from Hawke because nothing is told in his/her own words.  As someone pointed out, the player character really is the dwarf, not Hawke.

So I think it boils down to the 1st person vs. 3rd person debates we've seen in other threads.

[Massadonious1]

aberdash wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

I'd say switching from a D&D based gameplay system to a non D&D gameplay system worked pretty well.

If by worked well you mean made mages insanely overpowered you are right.

Uh, by "worked well" I meant continued critical and commerical success.

[Dummkopf]

aberdash wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

It's posts like these that make me wonder why you still choose to post.

Funnily enough I could say the same about you.

My main concern is the narrative is going to be forcing me through the game. If there is enough that we can do between the major plot points then it wont bother me. If we can do side-quests, chat up our party members, screw around in camp for a while, explore a random cave, and then continue on with the story I'm fine with it. But if it is railroading us through the story it is a terrible idea and I will undoubtedly hate it.

http://social.biowar...07&lf=8#3141406

[2papercuts]

Addai67 wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...

Roland Aseph wrote...

Isn't having a Non-Canon (imagined, fake..) storyline a waste of time in the IP's grand scheme of things?

What's the point?

Haven't you played DAO? Everything in Thedas is shrouded in uncertainty. Every major event in history is just a story, and most of those stories change based on who is telling them. This is a story of some people and events that are very important to Thedas history, told by someone who was there. It's skewed, but it's as true and as false as everything else in history.

I believe other people have already addressed this, but to me this is not a good analogy.  While the codex and conversations you encounter in Origins all have their "skew," we had the immediacy of our own PC's experience as an anchor in the story.

And this is what makes me nervous about a framed narrative, not as a storytelling device but as an RPG.  Not only are we put at distance from our PC in a gameplay sense by the addition of VO and paraphrases rather than full text, even within the story we're at a distance from Hawke because nothing is told in his/her own words.  As someone pointed out, the player character really is the dwarf, not Hawke.

So I think it boils down to the 1st person vs. 3rd person debates we've seen in other threads.

but thats the ending plot twist, it turns out there really was no Hawke and the narrator was the one that  really did all the thing he was telling you about so player character really was the dwarf the entire time

[aberdash]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Uh, by "worked well" I meant continued critical and commerical success.

Well then you are probably wrong. There were serveral threads about "why are there no clerics?" and "why cant I be a druid?" around the time the game was released.

Oh and there were countless threads about "mages are so op" and "rogues are useless".

Modifié par aberdash, 27 juillet 2010 - 04:14 .

[Arttis]

David Gaider wrote...

aberdash wrote...
If you know of a game with a framed narrative that has had great commercial sucess I would love to see it.

Alpha Protocol was the last to do it and it flopped.

It's odd only because I so rarely see people on these forums suggesting we should only do what has been financially successful before.

Well, I guess we'll see, won't we? I suspect you'll dislike what we have planned-- most people who are determined enough to dislike something usually do-- but as a writer I've found it a fun and different take on our usual method of presenting a story. Take that as you will.

I am gonna take a wild guess and say Hawke's story ends with DA2.