I just played both again and going over the footage, I noticed that Joker constantly had brief unspoken comments whenever Aliens or Alien power was concerned. It might have just been arrogance, but If you watch both games back to back you begin to see he's possibly the most racist person in the game. It may have all been my imagination and I'm going to put together a little video compilation on youtube with pop ups of what I think he might be saying or implying. I think he was an agent of Cerebus from the get go.
Was Joker a member of Cerebus from the very beginning of ME1?
Débuté par
GifMike
, juil. 27 2010 02:16
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#2
Guest_Shandepared_*
Posté 27 juillet 2010 - 02:22
Guest_Shandepared_*
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I don't know, but I suspect the reasons he and Chakwas gave you for joining Cerberus weren't entirely the truth.
#3
Posté 27 juillet 2010 - 02:26
Christmas Ape
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The more I think about it, the more there are implications everywhere Cerberus has been involved from the beginning. The very first cinematic, in fact; all the opening lines seem to center on your likelihood of commitment to humanity, then sort of "confirm" you based on your military record.
For that matter...who exactly does Udina "make the call" to?
For that matter...who exactly does Udina "make the call" to?
#4
Posté 27 juillet 2010 - 02:29
GifMike
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Christmas Ape wrote...
The more I think about it, the more there are implications everywhere Cerberus has been involved from the beginning. The very first cinematic, in fact; all the opening lines seem to center on your likelihood of commitment to humanity, then sort of "confirm" you based on your military record.
For that matter...who exactly does Udina "make the call" to?
I knew I couldn't be the only one who noticed something. From the very first conversation between Joker and Alenko on why he distrusts Nihlus. I believe Joker will have a bigger part to play.
#5
Posté 27 juillet 2010 - 02:42
Kroesis-
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Well Cerberus did encourage the planning and building of the Normandy.
#6
Posté 27 juillet 2010 - 02:45
Jedi Master of Orion
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The Citadel Council presumably? They are the ones who make the call of who gets to be a spectre or not. Admiral Hackett, Captain Anderson and Ambassador Udina were discussion who they thought would be the best one.
#7
Posté 27 juillet 2010 - 02:46
GifMike
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Kroesis- wrote...
Well Cerberus did encourage the planning and building of the Normandy.
They might have had several spies in the Alliance, and thought it was in their best interests to have a pair of eyes in there. And If Joker WAS with Cerebus, technically they had complete control of the Normandy at all times.
Modifié par GifMike, 27 juillet 2010 - 02:47 .
#8
Posté 27 juillet 2010 - 02:52
smudboy
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The whole Joker/Chakwas exposition/joining Cerberus is so bloody confusing it doesn't make any goddamned sense.
Now whether Joker was part of Cerberus in ME1, that's a big guess.
Now whether Joker was part of Cerberus in ME1, that's a big guess.
#9
Posté 27 juillet 2010 - 03:12
GifMike
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smudboy wrote...
The whole Joker/Chakwas exposition/joining Cerberus is so bloody confusing it doesn't make any goddamned sense.
Now whether Joker was part of Cerberus in ME1, that's a big guess.
It did seem a little tacked on. But then again so did the silly man verses Reaper ending.
#10
Posté 27 juillet 2010 - 03:21
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A lot of things don't make sense until you see the bigger picture, fact of life.
#12
Posté 27 juillet 2010 - 03:30
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nov_pl wrote...
Maybe Joker is the Shadow Broker!
LOL, I'm not sure if you meant that as a joke, but I thought of that, or possibly he's the real illusive man.
#13
Posté 27 juillet 2010 - 03:34
TudorWolf
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Joker mentions the Alliance effectively grounded him after the events of ME1... to Joker that's about the worst thing you can do. I presume Cerberus then went after him, because "he's the best". Joker isn't going to turn them down if they let him fly 
I don't see how that (which is what he tells you himself) could be a fabrication or something. Chakwas is more ambiguous though.
I don't see how that (which is what he tells you himself) could be a fabrication or something. Chakwas is more ambiguous though.
#14
Posté 27 juillet 2010 - 03:40
GifMike
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TudorWolf wrote...
Joker mentions the Alliance effectively grounded him after the events of ME1... to Joker that's about the worst thing you can do. I presume Cerberus then went after him, because "he's the best". Joker isn't going to turn them down if they let him fly
I don't see how that (which is what he tells you himself) could be a fabrication or something. Chakwas is more ambiguous though.
That's because it's more difficult to think of Joker as that good of liar. but If I'm right he's one of the greatest liars of all time.
#15
Posté 27 juillet 2010 - 03:45
SarEnyaDor
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Wow, that's just so wrong. Joker is THE man, he's not a Cerberus stoolie!
The Alliance treated him (and everyone who talked about the "ahh yes ...reapers" ) like crap and so when Cerb came calling and offered him a chance to fly again, he took it
EVERYTHING isn't a conspiracy.
The Alliance treated him (and everyone who talked about the "ahh yes ...reapers" ) like crap and so when Cerb came calling and offered him a chance to fly again, he took it
EVERYTHING isn't a conspiracy.
#16
Posté 27 juillet 2010 - 03:47
GifMike
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SarEnyaDor wrote...
Wow, that's just so wrong. Joker is THE man, he's not a Cerberus stoolie!
The Alliance treated him (and everyone who talked about the "ahh yes ...reapers" ) like crap and so when Cerb came calling and offered him a chance to fly again, he took it
EVERYTHING isn't a conspiracy.
This might be posted by Jokers mom. Sorry Mrs. Green.
#17
Posté 27 juillet 2010 - 03:53
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LOL and eeew, since I'm pulling for a Joker-romance *shudders*
#18
Posté 27 juillet 2010 - 04:00
Christmas Ape
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Two problems here.Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
The Citadel Council presumably? They are the ones who make the call of who gets to be a spectre or not. Admiral Hackett, Captain Anderson and Ambassador Udina were discussion who they thought would be the best one.
1. Why in the world would the Council listen to their recommendation? They don't seem to believe a damn thing we say to them without shoving their faces in proof.
2. Nihlus tells you he put your name forward for consideration, and the recommendation of another Spectre seems a far more likely "in" than that of some random Alliance brass and the Ambassador whose very job description is "push human interests".
#19
Posté 27 juillet 2010 - 04:02
GifMike
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Christmas Ape wrote...
Two problems here.Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
The Citadel Council presumably? They are the ones who make the call of who gets to be a spectre or not. Admiral Hackett, Captain Anderson and Ambassador Udina were discussion who they thought would be the best one.
1. Why in the world would the Council listen to their recommendation? They don't seem to believe a damn thing we say to them without shoving their faces in proof.
2. Nihlus tells you he put your name forward for consideration, and the recommendation of another Spectre seems a far more likely "in" than that of some random Alliance brass and the Ambassador whose very job description is "push human interests".
I'm curious about Nihlus's motavations also.
#20
Posté 27 juillet 2010 - 04:09
SarEnyaDor
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I just don't think EVERYTHING is always a conspiracy.
As a matter of fact, I would be highly disappointed if they took this route, as it is lazy writing. Once again the hero has been manipluated throughout every step of his life by this shadowy organization with hard-to-define nefarious goals so much so that even his closest friends and colleages were all just Cerberus plants to ensure the unwitting hero acted the way we wanted him to! {evil laugh}
I just find it more credible and realistic that what Joker, Doc Chak, Ashley/Kaiden, Liara, Tali, and Garrus tells you is the truth and that after Shep died the Alliance tried to pretty things up, swept people who wouldn't hush up away and disgruntled former ace-fliers took a gig where they could do what they loved to do instead of sitting behind a desk shuffling papers and being spoon-fed BS.
Too many conspiracies spoil the soup.
As a matter of fact, I would be highly disappointed if they took this route, as it is lazy writing. Once again the hero has been manipluated throughout every step of his life by this shadowy organization with hard-to-define nefarious goals so much so that even his closest friends and colleages were all just Cerberus plants to ensure the unwitting hero acted the way we wanted him to! {evil laugh}
I just find it more credible and realistic that what Joker, Doc Chak, Ashley/Kaiden, Liara, Tali, and Garrus tells you is the truth and that after Shep died the Alliance tried to pretty things up, swept people who wouldn't hush up away and disgruntled former ace-fliers took a gig where they could do what they loved to do instead of sitting behind a desk shuffling papers and being spoon-fed BS.
Too many conspiracies spoil the soup.
Modifié par SarEnyaDor, 27 juillet 2010 - 04:10 .
#21
Posté 27 juillet 2010 - 04:13
Christmas Ape
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I'm willing to entertain the notion because as much as the game is about the obvious themes, there's a cyclical nature to it. So much either is, or can be easily taken as in retrospect, foreshadowing that I feel paying careful attention to everything has a lot more to reveal than we think.
I've been recently fixated on "You're not even alive; not really. You're a machine, and machines can be broken." as it connects to ME2.
I've been recently fixated on "You're not even alive; not really. You're a machine, and machines can be broken." as it connects to ME2.
#22
Posté 27 juillet 2010 - 04:15
Kasen
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Shandepared wrote...
I don't know, but I suspect the reasons he and Chakwas gave you for joining Cerberus weren't entirely the truth.
I never felt there was a reason to disbelieve either Joker or Doctor Chakwas, though I do think it would have been more convincing had they both said they joined Cerberus specifically for Shepard. At first, I was convinced that Dr. Chakwas must have had a part in Project Lazarus (she is a Doctor after all), but alas, that was never mentioned at all so I've all but dismissed the idea.
(Edited for spelling...)
Modifié par Kasen13, 27 juillet 2010 - 04:16 .
#23
Posté 27 juillet 2010 - 04:22
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I always figured she felt like Joker was sort of a son to her, and she worries about him and his condition and figured she wanted to be on a ship not a station, the Alliance had lost it's appeal so why not got work for Cerb and stay close to the closest thing she has to family. Seems normal and human enough to me.
#24
Posté 27 juillet 2010 - 04:58
GifMike
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Christmas Ape wrote...
I'm willing to entertain the notion because as much as the game is about the obvious themes, there's a cyclical nature to it. So much either is, or can be easily taken as in retrospect, foreshadowing that I feel paying careful attention to everything has a lot more to reveal than we think.
I've been recently fixated on "You're not even alive; not really. You're a machine, and machines can be broken." as it connects to ME2.
Ya, technically every living thing is SOME type of machine, and it's obviously self aware and alive. Reapers are what happens when biological civilizations are left to indefinatly grow technologically. Your left with nothing else to do but cultivate gardens of biologicals to keep yourself alive. Reapers are proof that the universe SHOULD be wiped every now and again.
#25
Posté 27 juillet 2010 - 05:04
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Christmas Ape wrote...
Two problems here.Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
The Citadel Council presumably? They are the ones who make the call of who gets to be a spectre or not. Admiral Hackett, Captain Anderson and Ambassador Udina were discussion who they thought would be the best one.
1. Why in the world would the Council listen to their recommendation? They don't seem to believe a damn thing we say to them without shoving their faces in proof.
2. Nihlus tells you he put your name forward for consideration, and the recommendation of another Spectre seems a far more likely "in" than that of some random Alliance brass and the Ambassador whose very job description is "push human interests".
Well they obviously thought well enough of the Alliance and of you in general to make you a spectre. I thought it was clear that Udina was invovled with the Council in choosing the process of selecting first human spectre prior to their final decsion. It was certainly something that was significant enough to warrent a lot of careful consideration by both the galaxy's leaders and the leaders of the species they chose. Otherwise, was it just a coincidence that Nihlus and Udina chose Shepard at the same time to save the galaxy?
