111 réponses à ce sujet

[racerfox]

 Joker wasn't an agent of Cerberus from the start. To think so is really a massive stretch, and simply harbouring anti-alien thoughts is not enough to lend the conjecture weight.

However, he clearly held the kind of ideals that would make his transition from Alliance Pilot to Cerberus Operative believable. 

Which is exactly why the story worked well.

Joker being a member of Cerberus wouldn't make any sense to the plot currently, and working in this angle to a fringe character (solid, sure, but he /is/ fringe) would be overly contrived and unsatisfying (and I am pretty certain most would agree with this).

[Lyrandori]

Joker told Shepard at the beginning of ME2 why he joined Cerberus, no one remembers?



And even if Joker has some xenophobia in him doesn't necessarily mean that he's part of Cerberus, additionally he's not the only one on the original Normandy to feel distrust towards aliens, Ashley and Pressly also both were not comfortable with them around, so we might as well presume that they were part of Cerberus as well, no? I mean... if being racist/xenophobe is a prerequisite for working with/for Cerberus then hey, Joker ain't alone!



Anyway... we'll all see in ME3, hopefully.

[SarEnyaDor]

GifMike (the OP) thinks that all of that was a cover, that Joker is like Kevin Costner in No Way Out and is deep undercover in the Alliance to help guide and mold Shepard into the kind of Hero Cerberus can be proud of......

[angj57]

Spornicus wrote...

Where in the first one was he anti-alien?

Joker is just anti-everyone. Yes, he disparages aliens at several points in both games, but he does the same to various humans. If you listen to his experiences in flight school, he sounds like the type who doesn't get along with most people and has a chip on his shoulder. He actually kind of reminds me of House although I haven't watched that show in a long time.

I definitely don't see him as initially being a Cerberus agent. I think he also says that his favorite from the old crew was Tali (uh oh, Jokers is a Talimancer!) so I don't think he is anti-alien either.

[GifMike]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

GifMike (the OP) thinks that all of that was a cover, that Joker is like Kevin Costner in No Way Out and is deep undercover in the Alliance to help guide and mold Shepard into the kind of Hero Cerberus can be proud of......

That sure made what I thought sound smart.  I was kinda thinking Joker was his own evil genius seducing edi with his rapier wit.  All the while making the puppets dance.  Kevin Costner was just following orders.

[GifMike]

Lyrandori wrote...

Joker told Shepard at the beginning of ME2 why he joined Cerberus, no one remembers?

And even if Joker has some xenophobia in him doesn't necessarily mean that he's part of Cerberus, additionally he's not the only one on the original Normandy to feel distrust towards aliens, Ashley and Pressly also both were not comfortable with them around, so we might as well presume that they were part of Cerberus as well, no? I mean... if being racist/xenophobe is a prerequisite for working with/for Cerberus then hey, Joker ain't alone!

Anyway... we'll all see in ME3, hopefully.

How long ago was it you played ME1?

[GifMike]

angj57 wrote...

Spornicus wrote...

Where in the first one was he anti-alien?

Joker is just anti-everyone. Yes, he disparages aliens at several points in both games, but he does the same to various humans. If you listen to his experiences in flight school, he sounds like the type who doesn't get along with most people and has a chip on his shoulder. He actually kind of reminds me of House although I haven't watched that show in a long time.

I definitely don't see him as initially being a Cerberus agent. I think he also says that his favorite from the old crew was Tali (uh oh, Jokers is a Talimancer!) so I don't think he is anti-alien either.

And House isn't an evil genius?

[GifMike]

GifMike wrote...

Lyrandori wrote...

Joker told Shepard at the beginning of ME2 why he joined Cerberus, no one remembers?

And even if Joker has some xenophobia in him doesn't necessarily mean that he's part of Cerberus, additionally he's not the only one on the original Normandy to feel distrust towards aliens, Ashley and Pressly also both were not comfortable with them around, so we might as well presume that they were part of Cerberus as well, no? I mean... if being racist/xenophobe is a prerequisite for working with/for Cerberus then hey, Joker ain't alone!

Anyway... we'll all see in ME3, hopefully.

How long ago was it you played ME1?  Play it again and really watch and focus on Joker.  I'm telling you something is up with him.

[pvt_java]

Ashley, Pressely, the Alliance inspector and virtually half the humans you encounter in the first game are Cerberus Operatives apparently. It's called Xenophobia and it was very common in ME1 among humans and even some of the aliens when it came to Krogan and Rachni.

[GifMike]

pvt_java wrote...

Ashley, Pressely, the Alliance inspector and virtually half the humans you encounter in the first game are Cerberus Operatives apparently. It's called Xenophobia and it was very common in ME1 among humans and even some of the aliens when it came to Krogan and Rachni.

He also tries to keep you off Liara and onto Ashley.

Modifié par GifMike, 28 juillet 2010 - 02:15 .

[dreman9999]

GifMike wrote...

smudboy wrote...

The whole Joker/Chakwas exposition/joining Cerberus is so bloody confusing it doesn't make any goddamned sense.

Now whether Joker was part of Cerberus in ME1, that's a big guess.

It did seem a little tacked on.  But then again so did the silly man verses Reaper ending.

No, it isn't. The Illusive man wanted as much of the original crew of the normandy as possible due to the fact that they the most experanced crew for that type of ship. Most turned him down I imagine and No Joker was not a spy, his veiw on alien is common amoung humans in the game.

[GifMike]

dreman9999 wrote...

GifMike wrote...

smudboy wrote...

The whole Joker/Chakwas exposition/joining Cerberus is so bloody confusing it doesn't make any goddamned sense.

Now whether Joker was part of Cerberus in ME1, that's a big guess.

It did seem a little tacked on.  But then again so did the silly man verses Reaper ending.

No, it isn't. The Illusive man wanted as much of the original crew of the normandy as possible due to the fact that they the most experanced crew for that type of ship. Most turned him down I imagine and No Joker was not a spy, his veiw on alien is common amoung humans in the game.

He certainly may not be a spy, but there's something he's hiding and there's a bigger story for him.  I'm convinced.

[CommanderTravis]

GifMike wrote...

GifMike wrote...

Lyrandori wrote...

Joker told Shepard at the beginning of ME2 why he joined Cerberus, no one remembers?

And even if Joker has some xenophobia in him doesn't necessarily mean that he's part of Cerberus, additionally he's not the only one on the original Normandy to feel distrust towards aliens, Ashley and Pressly also both were not comfortable with them around, so we might as well presume that they were part of Cerberus as well, no? I mean... if being racist/xenophobe is a prerequisite for working with/for Cerberus then hey, Joker ain't alone!

Anyway... we'll all see in ME3, hopefully.

How long ago was it you played ME1?  Play it again and really watch and focus on Joker.  I'm telling you something is up with him.

What is it that joker does, or how is it that he acts, that makes you so certain something is up with him?

[GifMike]

CommanderTravis wrote...

GifMike wrote...

GifMike wrote...

Lyrandori wrote...

Joker told Shepard at the beginning of ME2 why he joined Cerberus, no one remembers?

And even if Joker has some xenophobia in him doesn't necessarily mean that he's part of Cerberus, additionally he's not the only one on the original Normandy to feel distrust towards aliens, Ashley and Pressly also both were not comfortable with them around, so we might as well presume that they were part of Cerberus as well, no? I mean... if being racist/xenophobe is a prerequisite for working with/for Cerberus then hey, Joker ain't alone!

Anyway... we'll all see in ME3, hopefully.

How long ago was it you played ME1?  Play it again and really watch and focus on Joker.  I'm telling you something is up with him.

What is it that joker does, or how is it that he acts, that makes you so certain something is up with him?

Hold on, I'm still putting together a video compilation.

[Kitteh303]

It's a stretch, but stranger things have happened. Like the VS on Horizon.

[Shwiggliness]

Joker doesn't trust Spectres is what he said.

tieing into Saren, and how he could not be trusted.

[Cypher0020]

I don't think Joker is Cerberus... he mistrusted Nihlus....I think he just mistrusted Spectres in general but really....which is funny because Shepard is his buddy and later on a Spectre too



But although I love Joker and Chakwas....I still find it odd they'd totally leave the Alliance and join Cerberus.....



on that note..... WHY did Chakwas get recruited again? Shepard and Joker I can see...most of the crew is ex-alliance, or lesser extremist....



but Chakwas? Unless she's one of the better doctors?

[GifMike]

Shwiggliness wrote...

Joker doesn't trust Spectres is what he said.
tieing into Saren, and how he could not be trusted.

I don't think Joker knew of Saren when he said the don't trust Spectres line.

[GifMike]

Cypher0020 wrote...

I don't think Joker is Cerberus... he mistrusted Nihlus....I think he just mistrusted Spectres in general but really....which is funny because Shepard is his buddy and later on a Spectre too

But although I love Joker and Chakwas....I still find it odd they'd totally leave the Alliance and join Cerberus.....

on that note..... WHY did Chakwas get recruited again? Shepard and Joker I can see...most of the crew is ex-alliance, or lesser extremist....

but Chakwas? Unless she's one of the better doctors?

She's one of those doctors who'll fix you up no questions asked and that won't report your bullet wound.

[Cypher0020]

Ah got it



also has a stash of booze in her quarters as well

[GifMike]

Cypher0020 wrote...

Ah got it

also has a stash of booze in her quarters as well

Jokers keeping a close eye on her.

[SarEnyaDor]

I'll look forward to your video, but I still think you are waaaay stretching your noggin and looking for conspiracies in places where the simple explanation just works better.

[jackkel dragon]

GifMike wrote...

Shwiggliness wrote...

Joker doesn't trust Spectres is what he said.
tieing into Saren, and how he could not be trusted.

I don't think Joker knew of Saren when he said the don't trust Spectres line.

It's called foreshadowing.

SarEnyaDor wrote...

I'll look forward to your video, but I still think you are waaaay stretching your noggin and looking for conspiracies in places where the simple explanation just works better.

If there is one thing I've learned from the Order of the Stick, it's that nothing is worthwhile if it isn't overly complicated.

Modifié par jackkel dragon, 28 juillet 2010 - 10:24 .

[GifMike]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

I'll look forward to your video, but I still think you are waaaay stretching your noggin and looking for conspiracies in places where the simple explanation just works better.

It won't be the first time.  I bought a plaster moon rock that was on the fake set of the moon landing.

[TelexFerra]

If Jokr and Chakwas have been cerberus members from the beginning then it will be a retcon.



There's no way that was planned from the beginning. Just like the writers on LOST, I don't think the writers knew where they were taking this story from the beginning.