111 réponses à ce sujet

[GifMike]

TelexFerra wrote...

If Jokr and Chakwas have been cerberus members from the beginning then it will be a retcon.

There's no way that was planned from the beginning. Just like the writers on LOST, I don't think the writers knew where they were taking this story from the beginning.

The writers don't even know.  That's how deep undercover he is.

[Costin_Razvan]

Seems far fetched, but not impossible.

[GifMike]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Seems far fetched, but not impossible.

exactly

[SarEnyaDor]

GifMike wrote...

The writers don't even know.  That's how deep undercover he is.

LMAO. You win a cookie.  

Now I think this whole thread you started was just a joke to get people to disagree with you.

[GifMike]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

GifMike wrote...

The writers don't even know.  That's how deep undercover he is.

LMAO. You win a cookie.  

Now I think this whole thread you started was just a joke to get people to disagree with you.

I was so sure I wasn't the only one, but noone else seemed to notice.

[GifMike]

CommanderTravis wrote...

GifMike wrote...

GifMike wrote...

Lyrandori wrote...

Joker told Shepard at the beginning of ME2 why he joined Cerberus, no one remembers?

And even if Joker has some xenophobia in him doesn't necessarily mean that he's part of Cerberus, additionally he's not the only one on the original Normandy to feel distrust towards aliens, Ashley and Pressly also both were not comfortable with them around, so we might as well presume that they were part of Cerberus as well, no? I mean... if being racist/xenophobe is a prerequisite for working with/for Cerberus then hey, Joker ain't alone!

Anyway... we'll all see in ME3, hopefully.

How long ago was it you played ME1?  Play it again and really watch and focus on Joker.  I'm telling you something is up with him.

What is it that joker does, or how is it that he acts, that makes you so certain something is up with him?

I posted a vid on youtube showing all his little signals, but noone agreed with me.  I must be the only one.  I thought about trying to play up the angle for the ME2 Movie, but Jokers just so darn likable, i didn't want to alienate people.  He does seem more loyal to Shepard so the point is basically moot.  I still don't trust him though.

[KainrycKarr]

You guys are reading way too much into it.

[Zan51]

I'm replaying ME1 right now and no way is Joker an alien hater. He says in ME2 he likes Tali and he also likes Garrus - remember the whole "stick up his ass.. now he's beating them with it. Can't believe I liked the old Garrus better." part?
I'm also not seeing Joker "talking in his head" at any time. You suggesting he's wired into a private network we know nothing about? Let's face it, he has little to say but a rant or three about his school days in pilot school, so you have to look at ME2 to get any treal conversation out of him.  If he was Cerberus, you think he would **** so much about EDI in his cockpit/bridge?

As for Chakwas, she likes Shepard. Is it that odd that given the chance she'd jump off a planet onto a ship with you and Joker? I don't think so. I think you are seeing conspiracies everywhere, or human supremacists...

Modifié par Zan51, 23 août 2010 - 04:17 .

[GifMike]

Zan51 wrote...

I'm replaying ME1 right now and no way is Joker an alien hater. He says in ME2 he likes Tali and he also likes Garrus - remember the whole "stick up his ass.. now he's beating them with it. Can't believe I liked the old Garrus better." part?
I'm also not seeing Joker "talking in his head" at any time. You suggesting he's wired into a private network we know nothing about? Let's face it, he has little to say but a rant or three about his school days in pilot school, so you have to look at ME2 to get any treal conversation out of him.  If he was Cerberus, you think he would **** so much about EDI in his cockpit/bridge?

As for Chakwas, she likes Shepard. Is it that odd that given the chance she'd jump off a planet onto a ship with you and Joker? I don't think so. I think you are seeing conspiracies everywhere, or human supremacists...

I'm afraid you are right.  There is one moment however, in ME1, when Ashley is making a comment on the Ascension on how it's main gun could rip throgh the hull of any ship in the Alliance fleet when he gives a small smile as if to say "You gotta hit me first"

[DomyB]

Joker was the best pilot that got to fly the best ship in the Alliance. After it was destroyed and he found out that an upgraded copy was being built with his old commander resurrected/conscripted, why wouldn't he join? It was never said WHEN he and the doctor joined Cerberus. Two years is a long time to do nothing for a guy with brittle bones, what exactly can he do besides fly or sit behind a desk? He'd probably want to fly.
And the doctor probably had the most contact with him in ME1 because of his condition so they developed a close relationship. Also,after ME1, maybe the medical station was just a little too quiet for her and she was pretty experienced with the type of mission Shepard was on.

Since the Coucil has buried all information about the attack on the Citadel, only the remaining Normandy crew were witnesses about what really happened. I assume they were demoted, hushed etc. Gabby and Ken say themselves that Ken was loud about what really happened so the Alliance got rid of him. They didn't join Cerberus as much as they joined Shepard on the new Normandy.

Is that so hard to accept?

Modifié par DomyB, 23 août 2010 - 01:50 .

[Count Viceroy]

Joker is mirandas father.

[Mister Mida]

Joker with Cerberus in ME (1)? No.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Kasen13 wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

I don't know, but I suspect the reasons he and Chakwas gave you for joining Cerberus weren't entirely the truth.

I never felt there was a reason to disbelieve either Joker or Doctor Chakwas, though I do think it would have been more convincing had they both said they joined Cerberus specifically for Shepard. At first, I was convinced that Dr. Chakwas must have had a part in Project Lazarus (she is a Doctor after all), but alas, that was never mentioned at all so I've all but dismissed the idea.

(Edited for spelling...)

At some point, Chakwas does say that she works for Shephard, not for Cerberus. 

Joker's easy, the Alliance grounded him and Cerberus gave him the chance to fly again, on a new Normandy and for Shephard at that!

[Moiaussi]

Not sure about whether he was an agent from the beginning of ME1, but he sure acts like one in ME2.

Whenever there is a call from the Illusive Man, Joker refuses to set a course until you answer it. Refuses. You can't even question him on that. Who is really in command of the Normandy?

In ME1 there was a similar issue whenever you drove the Mako out of bounds. Joker would pick you up against your will 'for your own safety', on the excuse that moving the ship so they could still keep track of you was more difficult than picking you up. To do that, the Mako's jump thrusters would have to have been overridden from the Normandy.
 
(That one can be written off as convenient writing, but the behavior in ME 2 is much more questionable... I mean it might make some sense if EDI locked down the ship on TIM's command, but Joker refusing to lay in a course?)

Note that xenophobia is not a requirement for a Cerebus operative. If you think it is, you really need to talk to the crew of the Normandy more in ME 2. The Cerebus crew is, if anything, less xenophobic than the crew of the original.

[Zulu_DFA]

GifMike wrote...

I posted a vid on youtube showing all his little signals, but noone agreed with me.  I must be the only one.  I thought about trying to play up the angle for the ME2 Movie, but Jokers just so darn likable, i didn't want to alienate people.  He does seem more loyal to Shepard so the point is basically moot.  I still don't trust him though.

1. Joker was not a Cerberus agent. Proof: see "Shepard dies after keeping the C-Base" ME2 ending. Joker talks to TIM and is unsure about TIM's plans about "beyond the Reapers"...

2. But he is not against Cerberus. Why would he? Why should all people in ME universe like aliens? It's good when the aliens are only in a videogame, but it's completely another thing to have them in real life, which is the situation of Joker, Ashley, Pressley, Finch, Saracino and TIM. The Human colonial government (aka Systems Alliance) tries to make nice with the alien governments but that does not make all terrans somehow love the aliens. Of course, there are people like Kelly too, but are they in majority? I doubt it. Mess sergeant Gardner appears to be the one most typical "man of the masses".

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 23 août 2010 - 05:30 .

[ExtremeOne]

thats bioware's way of adding more Mass Effect 1 people in the game. Joker has a role that is needed but they could have explained it better

[Daewan]

Am I the only person who got the "Chakwas is a stalker" lines during a drinking session? No, I can't be, it's in the wiki.

[klossen4]

joker is harbringer.

[Exile Isan]

If you get drunk with the doc and follow a certain line of questioning you find out that she joined Cereberus only because Joker did. She says that Joker will always have Vrolik's and even though he would never admit it he would always need her. That's why she's there.

I also see no reason to doubt Joker when he says he was grounded after Shepard was killed and that he joined Cereberus because they let him fly again.

[Moiaussi]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

GifMike wrote...

I posted a vid on youtube showing all his little signals, but noone agreed with me.  I must be the only one.  I thought about trying to play up the angle for the ME2 Movie, but Jokers just so darn likable, i didn't want to alienate people.  He does seem more loyal to Shepard so the point is basically moot.  I still don't trust him though.

1. Joker was not a Cerberus agent. Proof: see "Shepard dies after keeping the C-Base" ME2 ending. Joker talks to TIM and is unsure about TIM's plans about "beyond the Reapers"...

2. But he is not against Cerberus. Why would he? Why should all people in ME universe like aliens? It's good when the aliens are only in a videogame, but it's completely another thing to have them in real life, which is the situation of Joker, Ashley, Pressley, Finch, Saracino and TIM. The Human colonial government (aka Systems Alliance) tries to make nice with the alien governments but that does not make all terrans somehow love the aliens. Of course, there are people like Kelly too, but are they in majority? I doubt it. Mess sergeant Gardner appears to be the one most typical "man of the masses".

How do you explain him refusing to lay in a course any time the Illusive Man wishes to speak with Shep?

[Killjoy Cutter]

Moiaussi wrote...
How do you explain him refusing to lay in a course any time the Illusive Man wishes to speak with Shep?

Bad writing and railroad plot?

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 23 août 2010 - 09:30 .

[GifMike]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...
How do you explain him refusing to lay in a course any time the Illusive Man wishes to speak with Shep?

Bad writing and railroad plot?

lol

[Moiaussi]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...
How do you explain him refusing to lay in a course any time the Illusive Man wishes to speak with Shep?

Bad writing and railroad plot?

Heh, but if you are willing to go there, there is no point discussing any aspect of the plot.