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[Maugrim]

Seriously MAJOR SPOILERS, you have been warned  I ramble quite a bit so anything could be spoiled at any time.

As I posted on my status update ME: Retribution can be succinctly summed up thusly: Cerberus fuc*ks up yet another project.

Seriously at this point there is no good reason to listen to anything Cerberus says because the only thing they've managed to not completely mess up was the reviving Commander Shepard and even that was a near thing considering the betrayal of Wilson.  Even TIM doubts his surrounding himself with people that he himself describes as : "These were the fanatics, the zealots. " "The individuals assigned to work here didn't just respect him; they revered him. Worshipped him."  He wonders if this is a good thing but eventually concludes that it's necessary.  Sorry but TIM is one Archdemon short of a blight.  The train has slipped the tracks, a few bricks shy etc. etc. And he's all the more dangerous because with just a little faulty resoning he seems so believable.  That he is right about the Collectors/Reapers is due more to the fact that even a broken watch is correct twice a day.

That's not even getting into the vile racism displayed by every true blue and loyal Cerberus operative.  The murder of Liselle, who is incapacitated and defenseless is particularly disturbing considering how the Asari are described from various Cerberus viewpoints through out the book.  Shades of real world issues are definitely suggested as is traditional for most sci-fi series.  I hope we get to team up with Aria in ME3 and help her get revenge for the death of her daughter.  This is ultimately why I will never trust Cerberus no matter what good they may do, I don't tolerate bigotry in real life and all but my single "Total a-hole, pr*ck etc shepard" engages in that sort of nonsense.

Here are some interesting, direct from the Reapers answers about 'Why'

"Why are you here?" Kahlee asked. "What do you want from us?"

"We seek salvation," Grayson said, much to her surprise. "Ours and yours."
...

"Why can't you just leave us alone? Why can you just let us live our lives in peace?

"We are the keepers of the cycle.  The creators and the destroyers.  Your existence is a flicker, a spark.  We can extinguish it-or we can preserve it.   Submit to us and we can make you immortal."

All I can say is I'm kinda rooting against any last minute plot twists that the Reapers really only have good intentions and that they really are protecting us from something bigger.  In the book Grayson is nearly broken by the apparent emotionless actions and cold logical calculations of the Reapers.  I hope all this buisness about 'salvation' is just a smokescreen and really they are just out to destroy us to serve their purposes.

It's nice to see Anderson getting some action and being a badass.  I know some people are concerned about the way the words Councilor and advisor are being thrown around with regards to him and Udinia but I think it can be hand waved fairly easily.  Sanders is still something of a Mary Sue but I've never been one to hold it against her.  I suppose I like the character well enough in the end.  All protagonists in a series like ME are going to have more than a few Mary Sue/Gary Stu qualities and I think it's a little telling that people are going to focus on the one female getting in on all the fun and not the various men.  Nick was fun and reminds me a little of some of the stupid things I tried to do as a young girl to impress my teachers.  Good thing I wasn't a biotic teen or I would've really embarrased myself.

Overall I give the book a big thumbs up.

So what is everyone else's thoughts?

[Dave of Canada]

Random rambling time!



In my opinion, I found the entire book to be rather weak as a whole. As a Mass Effect fan, there were certain moments where I sat there and actually enjoyed the book (such as the scene where Reaper tech is put into Grayson) but as a whole I felt the book rather felt flat.



They could've went so many places with the Reaper-Grayson thing but it was kept rather simple where the Reapers are simply touring around the galaxy in his body killing stuff, the only scene where I actually enjoyed Reaper-Grayson was the one where you mentioned that the Reaper is trying to talk with Kahlee.



The Anderson and Udina scenerio could've been dealt with more delicately than it was, could've still kept the whole Anderson / Udina choice to be undecided if they didn't bother using the Councilor title for Udina (Admiral was sort of revealing but could've still been a promotion from the Alliance in good faith to Anderson).



The book seemed to have a strange interest with vomit, there was around seven to eight references to vomit throughout the entire book. While it does make sense at times (such as Grayson vomiting after the rations) did it really needed to be mentioned everywhere else?



And yes, this book still proves that Cerberus are incompetent at everything.



The book left me with a question though, does the Reaper Tech that Cerberus has officially confirm that the Collector Base IS canon?

[Docbrown777]

How the F does Cerberus keep getting funding?!?! They screw up just about every single thing they do!



I'm surprised Shepard wasn't brought back to life as a deformed zombie repeatedly muttering the line, "Kill me." However, that would have made for a short and not very entertaining ME2.

[kraidy1117]

I enjoyed it the most, the characters where better, TIM was fantastic, the conversation with the Reaper was also well done.

[PrinceLionheart]

I guess lucky for Shepard, Miranda was involved in the project since she seems to be the only competent Cerberus Operative.

[kraidy1117]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

I guess lucky for Shepard, Miranda was involved in the project since she seems to be the only competent Cerberus Operative.

This. Miranda knows what she is doing.

[SSV Enterprise]

I've read a few chapters, and am enjoying it so far.  But did Karpyshyn really need to talk about a teen boy's erection for his hot teacher?

Cue Van Halen!

[Legion 2.5]

How is Anderson, Shepard, and the collectors mentioned in the book.

[kraidy1117]

Legion 2.5 wrote...

How is Anderson, Shepard, and the collectors mentioned in the book.

Anderson is a main character in the book.

Shepard and his crew are mentioned to have gone of the grid.

[Legion 2.5]

Shepard gone off the grid. THe collector's revenge. What is anderson's role in the book exactly?

[Legion 2.5]

Shepard's gone off the grid. The Collector's or Cerberus probably got revenge. What I meant of Anderson's role is his main role in it.

[Maugrim]

[quote]Dave of Canada wrote...
They could've went so many places with the Reaper-Grayson thing but it was kept rather simple where the Reapers are simply touring around the galaxy in his body killing stuff, the only scene where I actually enjoyed Reaper-Grayson was the one where you mentioned that the Reaper is trying to talk with Kahlee.[/quote]


One interesting thing I thought was the fact that the Reapers were capable of subterfuge, lulling people into a false sense of security by having Grayson pretending to be sick in one example..  I would not have thought the machines capable of that manner of deception.  It was also interesting to see that Grayson managed to stop the Reapers from killing Sanders by convincing them that she would be valuable.  Now it's true that Sanders was valuable but would it be possible to infiltrate the minds of the reapers and deceive/control them ala Picard and the Borg in Star Trek TNG: The Best of Both Worlds or something similar?

[quote]Dave of Canada wrote...

The Anderson and Udina scenario could've been dealt with more delicately than it was, could've still kept the whole Anderson / Udina choice to be undecided if they didn't bother using the Councilor title for Udina (Admiral was sort of revealing but could've still been a promotion from the Alliance in good faith to Anderson).[/quote]


Really yeah they should have just avoided the Councilor title if only to stop the complaining.  Like I said it can be hand waved (Udina is actually Councilor on the Council's decorations committee! ) but if they just stuck to calling Anderson an admiral and Udina an adviser there official jobs and titles could be completely up for grabs without inhibiting their actions in the book

[quote]Dave of Canada wrote...

The book seemed to have a strange interest with vomit, there was around seven to eight references to vomit throughout the entire book. While it does make sense at times (such as Grayson vomiting after the rations) did it really needed to be mentioned everywhere else?[/quote]


I did vaguely notice that as well. I think when your writing sometimes you just get stuck on something, a word, an idea a sentence structure..  Like seriously my use of the word seriously so close together in my first post is seriously not good writing, seriously.  For some reason this is something that seems to get caught only after something is published.  Makes me wonder if the editor trimmed down any mentions of vomit or thought it wasn't enough to warrant changing.

[quote]Dave of Canada wrote...
The book left me with a question though, does the Reaper Tech that Cerberus has officially confirm that the Collector Base IS canon?[/quote]


I don't see how that could be taken as the case.  There were plenty of opportunities for Cerberus to collect Reaper tech and research from the derelict reaper even though the team died and the craft was last.  If the base is not destroyed it would just be that much easier.

[/quote]


[quote]PrinceLionheart wrote...

I guess lucky for Shepard, Miranda was involved in the project since she seems to be the only competent Cerberus Operative.[/quote]

No kidding.  There are plenty of good and justifiable reasons to choose many of the various Renegade options through out ME2.  However handing the base over to Cerberus can only be justified if you are playing a mentally defective Shepard, such as one described in Docbrown777 alternate history suggestion.

[quote]SSV Enterprise wrote...

I've read a few chapters, and am enjoying it so far.  But did Karpyshyn really need to talk about a teen boy's erection for his hot teacher?

Cue Van Halen!
[/quote]

I admit I was a little taken aback but I got over it pretty quickly.  I mean by the way Sanders is described and the fact that Nick is a 15 year old boy it would be weird for it not to be happen and better to describe it with a straightforward tone than stupid euphemisms.

[Cypher0020]

O_O



Uhhh....what does gone off the grid mean exactly? As in shelving them until ME3.... or something got f*ed up and they're hot water?

[Legion 2.5]

Probably the reapers or mercenaries got them.

[Maugrim]

Cypher0020 wrote...

O_O

Uhhh....what does gone off the grid mean exactly? As in shelving them until ME3.... or something got f*ed up and they're hot water?

I think it's more like "off the grid so we have a good reason for not calling in Shepard and having her clean it up in a half hour."  Shepard would simply be busy since the books seems to be set during and/or slightly after ME2.

It be nice if Retribution would be/has a solid time frame setting.  As it is it seems to vaguely happen sometime during/after ME2.  Could anyone remember anything else in the book that would nail the timing down more?  Such as definitively after or before the suicide mission?

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 28 juillet 2010 - 05:22 .

[Legion 2.5]

So again, how does Anderson fit within the story?

[Kaiser Shepard]

Legion 2.5 wrote...

So again, how does Anderson fit within the story?

Not that well if you chose him to become Councilor, or so I hear.

[NICKjnp]

So is it true that they made it so that the council was destroyed at the end of ME1?

[Maugrim]

Legion 2.5 wrote...

So again, how does Anderson fit within the story?

He's one of the main characters...he basically makes it possible to act on intel to help take down Cerberus and does some down and dirty personal ass kicking.  He's pretty important to say how he fits in the story would be to recount the whole thing something I'm not up for, maybe someone else is.  Seriously go down to a library or buy the book.  At $8US it's quite a bargain even if you read as fast as me and finish it in four hours.

NICKjnp wrote...

So is it true that they made it so that the council was destroyed at the end of ME1?

[Sten] No. [/Sten]

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 28 juillet 2010 - 05:35 .

[Maugrim]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Legion 2.5 wrote...

So again, how does Anderson fit within the story?

Not that well if you chose him to become Councilor, or so I hear.

I may come off as an apologist for saying this again but it can be hand waved and dealt with by using simple mental gymnastics.  It was handled poorly, I'll not deny that but it's hardly a deal break in my book.  Then again I am a Star Trek fan and have learned to ignore plot holes.  So take my words with a grain of salt.

[NYG1991]

Dave of Canada wrote...



The book left me with a question though, does the Reaper Tech that Cerberus has officially confirm that the Collector Base IS canon?

i think the book mentions someyhing about getting collector tech from the remnants of the bases "operations". that leaves it kinda vague as to whether it was destroyed or just radiated with the pulse bomb. also it mentions the attack on horizon as an oppurtunity to salvage some collector tech

[Inverness Moon]

Meh, the fact that BioWare portrays everything Cerberus (does other than what you need to be able to play ME2) as a failure really annoys me. It just doesn't seem realistic to me. It's like they're just there to be milked as a plot device. They have failed projects when you need another mission, and they succeed when BioWare needs some way to bring you back from the dead and give you a ship.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 28 juillet 2010 - 07:23 .

[didymos1120]

Dave of Canada wrote...

And yes, this book still proves that Cerberus are incompetent at everything.

Well, it was hardly their fault a Turian strike force made it possible for Reaper-Grayson to escape.  And TIM did get what he wanted: data on the transformation process.  Of course, Cerberus got reamed overall, so not exactly a "win", but again, that was due to factors largely outside their control.  Don't mistake me: Cerberus is not a paragon of competence, but it's not like any other organization involved in these events came out looking much better.  They all f*cked badly at one point or another, for various reasons.

The book left me with a question though, does the Reaper Tech that Cerberus has officially confirm that the Collector Base IS canon?

No.  All the novel says is "Cerberus had salvaged key pieces of technology from the Collector operation."  That could be the entire base, bits and pieces that didn't get thrown into the black hole, stuff they recreated thanks to EDI's scans of both base and ship, or even just crap found in Collector corpses left in Shepard's wake on Horizon. 

Then there's this:

"They were already beginning to set up a facility to undertake the first carefully controlled tests of the alien technology."

That tells us nothing about how much tech is involved.   All that's required for Retribution is that Cerberus acquired the specific tech used for the Grayson experiment, and some unspecified additional amount.  If you blew up the base, I imagine the facility is just something like the Lazarus station, and the amount is somewhere in the neighborhood of "not all that much".   If you kept the base, that facility is probably inside it, much like the one set up on the derelict reaper.

Modifié par didymos1120, 28 juillet 2010 - 08:09 .

[didymos1120]

NICKjnp wrote...

So is it true that they made it so that the council was destroyed at the end of ME1?

No.  It doesn't say anything specific about the rest of the Council, just that it was "restructured" after the events of ME1, which is true no matter what you chose. It does say Udina is currently Councilor though.  My personal theory is that come ME3, we'll learn that Anderson's tenure as Councilor wasn't well-received in the Alliance, and Udina and others leveraged it to get him demoted, but not demoted too much since that would look bad.   I imagine it was one of those "I've chosen to resign my postion for the good of the blah, blah, blah" things, where everyone in the know understands that it was not a choice at all.  Of course, if you picked Udina, then Anderson was simply in the subordinate position all along.

[Rivercurse]

I thought the book was ok.  We're surely gonna get to meet Sanders in ME3 now that her and Andrerson are an item, and both working on the same project at the Citadel.  That is a good thing as far as I'm concerned.

I hope Kai Leng makes it into the sequel aswell, what a survivalist.

The highlight for me was the tiny insights into the Reapers thoughts/motivations, but they didn't really teach us anything new.
The OP touched on the whole 'salvation' thing.  I noted this aswell, especially when viewed in conjunction with what Harbinger said at the end of ME2 about the Reapers being salvation through destruction.

It seems pretty logical to assume that the reapers believe that they are somehow doing organic life a favor by 'immortalising' a particular species into Reaper form.  Maybe there is a bigger threat out there, or maybe the Reapers just know that if left unchecked, organic life would always continue to war and fight each other until extinction anyway.

Perhaps they pick the best species in each crop, reaperize them (), and then wait until the next time around.