357 réponses à ce sujet

[Itkovian]

A few points I'd like to bring up:

1- Udina as councilor I think was a mistake that Drew did not pick up. Throughout the rest of the book, Drew is very careful not to state exactly waht Anderson does. It's only in two sentences that the Udina/Anderson decision was nailed down, and as it really brings nothing to the book I'm chalking that up to human error.

One thing the book DOES accomplish, however, is remove that particular decision as a big branch in the story. Regardless of what you chose, Anderson resigned and is off trying to organize things against the Reapers (he mentions friends in and out of the Alliance he can turn for help, which surely includes Shepard), and Udina is now the Councilor.

2- Shepard being off the grid simply means he went away doing his own thing and cannot be contacted. The way Anderson thinks about it does not indicate that Shepard was in any danger at all. I surmise that Shepard goes around the galaxy with the Normandy to try and figure out how to fight the Reapers.

3- There is no indication one way or the other about what happened to the Collector Base. It mentions that Shepard found the Collector Base, and Cerberus was able to recover Reaper tech from what was left of it. Exactly how much of it was left of it is never specified.

4- Cerberus actually did not really screw up on this one. I'm not sure why people think they did. Things went wrong when they were attacked by an outside party, not due to their own actions or negligence. In fact, The Illusive Man was playing it safe, and was planning to have Grayson eliminated in a few days.

That said, this book definitely made it clear Cerberus is quite evil. But I liked the glimpse at The Illusive Man's inner thoughts. Quite interesting.

Itkovian

[Lisa_H]

Rivercurse wrote...

It seems pretty logical to assume that the reapers believe that they are somehow doing organic life a favor by 'immortalising' a particular species into Reaper form.  Maybe there is a bigger threat out there, or maybe the Reapers just know that if left unchecked, organic life would always continue to war and fight each other until extinction anyway.

Perhaps they pick the best species in each crop, reaperize them (), and then wait until the next time around.

I have always haved a hunch, that the reaper do this for some higher purpose. Maybe something about preserving the best races (according to their standards) while no race is allowed to colonize the entire galaxy. After all it seems like this cycle has continued for more than 37 million of years, so without the cycle earth would probably have been colonized long before there were humans.

[PARAGON87]

Just finished the book today, I would give it a 3 out of 5. I really was dissapointed that there were no new areas revealed, just Citadel, Omega and Grissom Station. Also I was dissapointed to see that really nothing new happened in the overall universe, just the Reapers controlling Grayson. 

First the negative:

From the summary on the back of the book, I thought that reaperfied Grayson was on track to activate the Citadel relay like Saren in ME1 and unleash the Reaper onslaught under Shepard's nose.  When he went to the Grissom Station to gather data of the Ascension project and was killed there I was like  HUH?!  What kind of threat to the galaxy was that?

It was cool to see what the reasoning was with that star in the Illusive Man's office, and also the space station he was in.

I was also satisified that the turians got to unlease a can of whoopa** on Cerberus, and give the Illusive Man a scare for his life. I was rooting for the turians the whole way, and really dissapointed that they didn't as lease injure/scar TIM. At least Cerberus was set back by these happenings. I hope the arrests and unraveling of the Cerberus front companies has some impact in ME3/future DLC.

Anyway, good job Drew, will miss your writing when the next book comes out. 

(It's funny because the whole internal Reaper/Grayson internal conflict did remind me of the Captain Keyes/Flood conflict in Halo: The Flood, which was written by the next Mass Effect novel writer, WIlliam Dietz).

Modifié par PARAGON87, 28 juillet 2010 - 08:41 .

[Junthor]

It was overall a big thumbs up experience for me. I can't help but feel a little embarrassed for Cerberus though. As far as track records go for terrorist groups, they're laughable.

[Maugrim]

Itkovian wrote...
4- Cerberus actually did not really screw up on this one. I'm not sure why people think they did. Things went wrong when they were attacked by an outside party, not due to their own actions or negligence. In fact, The Illusive Man was playing it safe, and was planning to have Grayson eliminated in a few days.

Have to disagree with you on this one.  The whole catalyst for the operations by the 'outside parties' was actions committed by Cerberus.  Grayson was minding his own buisness out on Omega and was doing bubkiss to annoy or hamper Cerberus in any way shape or form.  He wasn't even working for the greater good.  And we must remember that the only reason he isn't still working for Cerberus is because they were idiotic enough to think he'd harm his own daughter in a manner that was blatant.  TIM tries to justify using Grayson for the experiments with a bogus 2-for-1 argument that falls flat as it's easily seen as a revenge ploy. TIM even admits he wanted revenge later on as we recall.  So Grayson as his last free act before being kidnapped gives all his collected data on Cerberus to Sanders so they can be brought down.

A lot of this data was already out of date.  A few more years and probably virtually all of it would have been useless.  If TIM had just left Grayson to his own devices 1.) Cerberus wouldn't be attacked 2.) They'd complete their Reaper experiment in peace 3.) They wouldn't ****** off Aria (I'm betting on consequences in ME3) .  TIM's ego is the cause of this failure, because of his need for revenge they lose many undercover operatives, dozens of top scientests, four(iirc)bases of operation, millions if not billions in funding...and none of it had to happen.  Admittedly it be a real short book.....but you can't remove Cerberus actions from their consequences.  The only good thing to come out of this for Cerberus is having the data from the aborted experiments on Grayson.  And they wouldn't even have that if Aria didn't agree to giving them the info. Or to put it in two words.

[RiouHotaru]

Actually, the Reaper conversation doesn't necessarily make them good per-say. It's a case of classic Blue And Orange Morality. They are taking part in an action they've been facilitating for millions upon millions of years. For them, what they are doing is the morally and logically correct course of action. We look at them and just blink because yeah, we CANT comprehend their thought processes, which would lead them to the conclusion that "ascending" us is in any way shape or form, "right".



But yeah, I think I can add Retribution to the list of Cerberus' crimes. Honestly at this point how anyone can claim to support them after it becomes obvious TIM is heading for a downward spiral.

[BearBoy]

PARAGON87 wrote...

(It's funny because the whole internal Reaper/Grayson internal conflict did remind me of the Captain Keyes/Flood conflict in Halo: The Flood, which was written by the next Mass Effect novel writer, WIlliam Dietz).

I've not heard about this next novel.  Is there any info on it?

[Rivercurse]

Just the fact that he has been hired, no info on the book itself.

[TMA LIVE]

Huge plot hole with Kahlee:

Anderson: This must have something to do with the Reapers.

Unfamiliar with the name, Kahlee asked, "Who are the Reapers?"

Anderson explains the Reapers.

Kahlee blinked in surprise. "I've never heard anything remotely like that before in my life."

----

Rewind to Book 2:

----

Female Quarian: Have you ever heard of a species called the Reapers?

Kahlee shook her head.

Quarians explain the rumors about Reapers.

----

How the hell did that slip! Does Drew even read his own books! Even if he missed it, an editor should have noticed this!

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 29 juillet 2010 - 02:28 .

[camcon2100]

Why no Drew

[Maugrim]

A 7 second explanation of Cerberus Logic.

I didn't say it was good, sound logic now did I?  And yeah I nicked it, so sue me .

TMA Live I didn't even catch that at first myself.  And shouln'td see as such a excellent analyst have an inkling considering her work with Qian?

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 29 juillet 2010 - 02:48 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

camcon2100 wrote...

Why no Drew

Hmm?

[Rivercurse]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Huge plot hole with Kahlee:

Anderson: This must have something to do with the Reapers.

Unfamiliar with the name, Kahlee asked, "Who are the Reapers?"

Anderson explains the Reapers.

Kahlee blinked in surprise. "I've never heard anything remotely like that before in my life."

----

Rewind to Book 2:

----

Female Quarian: Have you ever heard of a species called the Reapers?

Kahlee shook her head.

Quarians explain the rumors about Reapers.

----

How the hell did that slip! Does Drew even read his own books! Even if he missed it, an editor should have noticed this!

Wow good point, I missed that.  Happened on the flotilla didn't it, in the conclave/admiralty meeting.

lol drewfail

[DeckardWasAReplicant]

The reapers talking about Our salvation is them making humans into a reaper. They are offering us to be like them. "the pinnacle of evolution" immortal, they are kinda like the borg. Taking in the cultures of oragnics and making them into reapers. Trying to make the perfect hybrid of machine and organic. But thats my take on it

[Legion 2.5]

I need to read this book. I wonder though, how is the Anderson-Kahlee relationship presented in the book.

[ToshiStation38]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Huge plot hole with Kahlee

MASS EFFECT IS NOW RUINED FOR ME!

Just finished it. It was rather enjoyable, not as good as Ascension IMO.

Does anyone find the hand-to-hand bits don't really feel like they belong? It has nothing to do with the writing, I just find it since there's never really been any crazy HTH combat in the video games.

[Legion 2.5]

Maybe the hole plot hole thing with Kahlee was here being quiet about her involvement with Soverign.

[didymos1120]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Huge plot hole with Kahlee:

Anderson: This must have something to do with the Reapers.

Unfamiliar with the name, Kahlee asked, "Who are the Reapers?"

Anderson explains the Reapers.

Kahlee blinked in surprise. "I've never heard anything remotely like that before in my life."

----

Rewind to Book 2:

----

Female Quarian: Have you ever heard of a species called the Reapers?

Kahlee shook her head.

Quarians explain the rumors about Reapers.

----

How the hell did that slip! Does Drew even read his own books! Even if he missed it, an editor should have noticed this!

It's actually a little worse than that even.  Right before the Ascension bit you quoted:

"Is is possible Saren found [Qian's] files?" one of the Conclave asked. "Is it possible he found this artifact and used it to gain control of the geth?"

"It's possible," Kahlee answered, somewhat reluctanctly.  The idea had occurred to her before, but she didn't like speculating that she had played some role, however small, in the devastation wrought by the geth.

Fast forward to Retribution, and pretty much this exact story is laid out by Anderson (with the addition that the Reapers were the ones actually in charge, of course) and Kahlee acts nothing like you'd expect her to if she'd already considered it. 

It really should have been caught, and it's too bad it wasn't because it would actually require very little rewriting to fix and it was also a missed opportunity to have a nice little callback to Ascension.

[Shwiggliness]

I read it today.



I was disgusted at Cerberus'es treatment of Liselle.

[Maugrim]

Shwiggliness wrote...

I read it today.

I was disgusted at Cerberus'es treatment of Liselle.

Honestly that whole sequence bothered me more than anything else.  I know Drew was just writing the perspective of morally bankrupt anti-alien (yes anti-alien not pro-human there is a difference) but from the way the constantly described the Asari (lots of woman hating here as well, despite CHud's silly comments.)  If Cerberus just knew when to draw the line there could be a lot more gray area for my paragade and renegon Sheps, who have made morally questionable choices, to navigate.  Instead it's an easy conclusion to write off Cerberus because they are that lovely combination of insane and incompetent.  The only major exceptions to this are Miranda and reviving Shepard.

[Ieldra]

makenzieshepard wrote...
All I can say is I'm kinda rooting against any last minute plot twists that the Reapers really only have good intentions and that they really are protecting us from something bigger.  In the book Grayson is nearly broken by the apparent emotionless actions and cold logical calculations of the Reapers.  I hope all this buisness about 'salvation' is just a smokescreen and really they are just out to destroy us to serve their purposes

That's not a last-minute plot twist. If you know where the Reaper idea was copied from inspired by (Alastair Reynolds' 'Revelation Space' series), you could see it coming right from the first meeting with Tali and Anderson in ME1, where the Reapers were mentioned for the first time, or latest at one of the Normandy meetings after finishing a plot world where Shepard tells Liara the Protheans were eradicated by the Reapers.

Actually, I like this scenario. It's more interesting than "The Reapers destroy organic life because of some misguided ideology". This way, they still need to be stopped, but at least there might be, or might have been, some rational point to what they were doing.

[Ablaz3d]

*Spoiler alert*















Asari are better in bed than humans are.

[Ieldra]

makenzieshepard wrote...

Shwiggliness wrote...

I read it today.

I was disgusted at Cerberus'es treatment of Liselle.

Honestly that whole sequence bothered me more than anything else.  I know Drew was just writing the perspective of morally bankrupt anti-alien (yes anti-alien not pro-human there is a difference) but from the way the constantly described the Asari (lots of woman hating here as well, despite CHud's silly comments.)  If Cerberus just knew when to draw the line there could be a lot more gray area for my paragade and renegon Sheps, who have made morally questionable choices, to navigate.  Instead it's an easy conclusion to write off Cerberus because they are that lovely combination of insane and incompetent.  The only major exceptions to this are Miranda and reviving Shepard.

Yeah. ME2's version of Cerberus was so much more interesting. But it seems Karpyshyn can't write ambiguous and subtle characters - everything he writes is so heavy-handed there's nothing interesting left where he applied his verbal sledgehammer. Good he never got his hands on Miranda. He'd totally destroy her.

[Maugrim]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Actually, I like this scenario. It's more interesting than "The Reapers destroy organic life because of some misguided ideology". This way, they still need to be stopped, but at least there might be, or might have been, some rational point to what they were doing.

I don't mind if the Reapers go all "Father Knows Best" on us as long as they don't actually know best.  I don't think they will but I don't want some lame plot twist where they are right.  Although doing the wrong things for the right reasons is about as played out an excuse as 'I was just following orders'  Sometimes you just want to go up against an unstoppable force of nature, something more akin to a tidal wave, swarm of locusts or the Borg (Q-Who / Best of Both Worlds Borg not Voyager Borg).  This of course is definately a YMMV thing so I'll just put it down a my personal preference and nothing more.

[RiouHotaru]

Ieldra2 wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...

Shwiggliness wrote...

I read it today.

I was disgusted at Cerberus'es treatment of Liselle.

Honestly that whole sequence bothered me more than anything else.  I know Drew was just writing the perspective of morally bankrupt anti-alien (yes anti-alien not pro-human there is a difference) but from the way the constantly described the Asari (lots of woman hating here as well, despite CHud's silly comments.)  If Cerberus just knew when to draw the line there could be a lot more gray area for my paragade and renegon Sheps, who have made morally questionable choices, to navigate.  Instead it's an easy conclusion to write off Cerberus because they are that lovely combination of insane and incompetent.  The only major exceptions to this are Miranda and reviving Shepard.

Yeah. ME2's version of Cerberus was so much more interesting. But it seems Karpyshyn can't write ambiguous and subtle characters - everything he writes is so heavy-handed there's nothing interesting left where he applied his verbal sledgehammer. Good he never got his hands on Miranda. He'd totally destroy her.

Actually, this portrayal makes a statement in-game have a HECK of a lot more punch to it.  Miranda mentions that Cerberus wants more people like Shepard, who are in it for humanity, NOT just because they're xenophobes.  Then along comes Retribution and shows us exactly what Miranda was talking about, and why it bothers her so much.

Ouch.