283 réponses à ce sujet

[KujiMuji]

Well, if you had not done the mission, the enemy geth would have done the same thing and eradicated organic species, due to their belief of the "Old Machine".

If you destroy the base, you simply destroy the geth in it, when there can be similar outposts to the Heretic Station. You'd have to handle the Geth that are against you, along with the Reapers.

If you rewrite them, you'll be helping their cause in the long run. Even though you could view this in the tactical standpoint (They offer more guns against the Reapers), but you'll be helping them as a "race". After the Reaper fight, they can mind their own business and thrive on their own. They didn't want to fight the Quarians, I believe from what Legion said, they fought because the Quarians wanted to destroy them

That was pretty much my way of thinking.

Modifié par KujiMuji, 29 juillet 2010 - 03:07 .

[Cheese Elemental]

Shandepared wrote...

Cheese Elemental wrote...

And Xen's programming is morally abhorrent.

Then so is your rewrite.

What kind of ****ing insane logic this this?

Xen's re-write will turn the geth (ALL OF THEM) into slaves.

Legion's re-write will reunite the heretics (a small portion of the geth) with their pure counterparts.

It will benefit everyone involved. The Council and Alliance won't have to worry about the geth attacking, the quarians will get Rannoch and their other colonies back, and the Geth get to live in peace and unity.

[chapa3]

"If you destroy the base, you simply destroy the geth in it, when there can be similar outposts to the Heretic Station. You'd have to handle the Geth that are against you, along with the Reapers."



It seems that the Heretic Station was the primary base, and its destruction results in the destruction of nearly all of the heretics.

[KujiMuji]

chapa3 wrote...

"If you destroy the base, you simply destroy the geth in it, when there can be similar outposts to the Heretic Station. You'd have to handle the Geth that are against you, along with the Reapers."

It seems that the Heretic Station was the primary base, and its destruction results in the destruction of nearly all of the heretics.

Well, yeah, it was the primary base, but you stll have other, smaller "heretic" bases. At least, from what it said on the ME Wiki, i haven't played through the Heretic Station base in awhile.

[chapa3]

KujiMuji wrote...


Well, yeah, it was the primary base, but you stll have other, smaller "heretic" bases. At least, from what it said on the ME Wiki, i haven't played through the Heretic Station base in awhile.

Legion commented that it would take many years (centuries maybe?)  for the heretics to rebuild themselves to their previous strength. From the sound of that, I'd say outpost is a more accurate term then small base.

[Spartas Husky]

If we made a virus, which told them "agree with me"



My logic could be anywhere, from peaceful, to down right psycotic... either way it isn't nice.

[Cheese Elemental]

Shandepared wrote...

Cheese Elemental wrote...

Xen's re-write will turn the geth (ALL OF THEM) into slaves.

It will cause them to choose to fulfill their original purpose of serving the quarians. They'll still be sapient, but they'll want to do this.

It's brainwashing an entire sapient species to serve as slaves, not equals.

Shandepared wrote...

Cheese Elemental wrote...

(If Xen rewrites the geth) It will benefit everyone involved. The Council and Alliance won't have to worry about the geth attacking, the quarians will get Rannoch and their other colonies back, and the Geth get to live in peace and unity.

Agreed!

Now you're just using my grammatical error. That's just sad.

[thegreateski]

Look at it this way.



you're saving them from becoming the next generation of "Keepers"

[chapa3]

If you see them as sapient species, then by what right do you have to rewrite their way of thinking to fit your idea of "peace and co-existance".

Modifié par chapa3, 29 juillet 2010 - 03:28 .

[Cheese Elemental]

Shandepared wrote...

Cheese Elemental wrote...

It's brainwashing an entire sapient species to serve as slaves, not equals.

Now we're getting back into a different debate.

No, we're not. The answer is clear-cut. Xen's programming will make them slaves and Legion's programming will unite the geth again.

It isn't any more complex than that. It's one of the most black-and-white comparisons in ME2. Re-writing the heretics, whether they're willing or not, is good for the geth, the Council/Alliance and the quarians. Xen's plan will only benefit the latter three at the cost of a sapient species' freedom.

[Cheese Elemental]

chapa3 wrote...

If you see them as sapient species, then by what right do you have to rewrite their way of thinking to fit your idea of "peace and co-existance".

It's brainwashing a mere fragment of the geth as opposed to the entire species.

GODDAMN

[thegreateski]

Shandepared wrote...

Cheese Elemental wrote...

No, we're not.

You think the geth are sapient species, I don't.

Cheese Elemental wrote...

The answer is clear-cut. Xen's programming will make them slaves and Legion's programming will unite the geth again.

Xen's programming would unite them too. What does it matter to the heretics if the true geth are deciding to remain separate from the galaxy or if Xen has "convinced them" to serve as labor and security for the quarians? The geth won't care.

Don't the Geth already want to get along with their "creators"? Legion says as much.

[Cheese Elemental]

Shandepared wrote...

Cheese Elemental wrote...

No, we're not.

You think the geth are sapient species, I don't.

What? They're self-aware and are capable of learning as well as making complex decisions, as well as exhibiting many behavious associated with sapients (talking, engineering etc). How much ****ing proof do you need?

Shandepared wrote...

Cheese Elemental wrote...

The answer is clear-cut. Xen's programming will make them slaves and Legion's programming will unite the geth again.

Xen's programming would unite them too. What does it matter to the heretics if the true geth are deciding to remain separate from the galaxy or if Xen has "convinced them" to serve as labor and security for the quarians? The geth won't care.

That's the worst part! They won't even know that they've been brainwashed and they'll be reduced to docile slaves with no rights. Legion's re-write isn't the same because it convinces the heretics that they're wrong while Xen wants absolute dominance, which implies total control of their thought-processes.

[chapa3]

"It's brainwashing a mere fragment of the geth as opposed to the entire species.



GODDAMN"



No, its brainwashing an entire geth culture, essentially equivilent to genocide. You don't have to take a life to commit genocide, as the australian aboriginals are case in point. Destruction of a culture is still genocide.

[IanPolaris]

Shandepared wrote...

Cheese Elemental wrote...

And Xen's programming is morally abhorrent.

Then so is your rewrite.

Negative on that.  You are destroying the Heretics one way or the other.  That is not an option.  As such you are rewriting a culture/race because it has FORFEITED it's right to exist (by refusing to coexist with others).

That's a huge difference to Xen who wants to reprogram Geth (whether they are a threat or not) just for a convenient source of slave labour.

-Polaris

[thegreateski]

The genocide of a group that is hellbent of killing all organics in the universe. What a shame.



By that logic we should be trying to make friends with the Reapers and politely ask them to go away.

[Cheese Elemental]

chapa3 wrote...

"It's brainwashing a mere fragment of the geth as opposed to the entire species.

GODDAMN"

No, its brainwashing an entire geth culture, essentially equivilent to genocide. You don't have to take a life to commit genocide, as the australian aboriginals are case in point. Destruction of a culture is still genocide.

It's not genocide. They want to destroy all organic life, a belief incompatible with galactic society. They won't negotiate and they won't surrender, but they have valuable memories and resources, making re-writing them good for both them and the pure geth, as well as Shepard.

The situation with the Aboriginals was monstrous, but it's not the same. They had their culture systematically destroyed because they were seen as inferior, not because it was incompatible with the greater whole.

[Mallissin]

People never seem to pay attention to the story and then argue about the paragon/renegade choices.



Sovereign corrupted the heretic geth using a virus or indoctrination. Using a virus to remove it, isn't brainwashing...it's resetting.

[Spartas Husky]

Mallissin wrote...

People never seem to pay attention to the story and then argue about the paragon/renegade choices.

Sovereign corrupted the heretic geth using a virus or indoctrination. Using a virus to remove it, isn't brainwashing...it's resetting.

they were never brainwashed, legion states they willingly went with soverign.

Geth are building a dyson sphere/reaper like body for themt o be together, but true geth believe the journey is as important as the destination, the heretics believe if they can get the dyson sphere sooner, doesn't matter how, so they went with soverign.

Legion states they did so willingly.... wrong choice but willing.

[thegreateski]

Mallissin wrote...

People never seem to pay attention to the story and then argue about the paragon/renegade choices.

Sovereign corrupted the heretic geth using a virus or indoctrination. Using a virus to remove it, isn't brainwashing...it's resetting.

No it's not.

That fragment of the Geth reached the conclusion that serving the Reapers was the right course of action by themselves.