265 réponses à ce sujet

[Grommash94]

Saibh wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

Other notes

- Bioware cares more what IGN reviewers say than what is on the boards
- They consider most of feedback from the boards "noise"
- They think people complaining about diaper sex are "funny"
- He doesn't think anyone has a right to criticize DA2 until they play it
- He is clearly a PC first developer and doesn't think people "understand" how hard it is to port to consoles

Yes i found the above a little strange, don't understand why Bioware personnel don't care what the customers who buy the games think.
 
If they don't want us to post our opinions why don't they just say so.

I don't think it's that. I think that people on the internet can freely say whatever they want with pretty much no consequence. Threats of boycotts, screams of betrayal...the fans here tend to be more emotional then they would be elsewhere. If they took half of what we said in utter seriousness, I think they'd lose the will to live.

Oh, this is nothing compared to some of the MMO forums I've visited. Logic and patience are two words that have no meaning there.

[Haexpane]

fchopin wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

Other notes

- Bioware cares more what IGN reviewers say than what is on the boards
- They consider most of feedback from the boards "noise"
- They think people complaining about diaper sex are "funny"
- He doesn't think anyone has a right to criticize DA2 until they play it
- He is clearly a PC first developer and doesn't think people "understand" how hard it is to port to consoles

Yes i found the above a little strange, don't understand why Bioware personnel don't care what the customers who buy the games think.
 
If they don't want us to post our opinions why don't they just say so.

There is no doubt that the "internet can be noisy" but I resent being lumped in w/ random internet noise myself.

I took the time to try and register my pre ordered BW/EA games  (only ME2 didn't generate a UPC error), Social Network site, upload my game data, bought all the DLC etc...

But they'd rather read the drivel from Greg Miller or Daemon Hatfield over at IGN "LOL NERDS AND ORCS!":whistle:

Then to say you can't judge the art by looking at it, well so much for humility?

Reminds me of some art classes I took in college. When we did peer critiques for the works, the  best artists would just sit and listen, comment when asked.  (not me, I was average at best, "Drawing for NON ART MAJORS")

Then you had the super defensive people that would counter every negative comment w/ an explanation as to WHY XYZ...

With art, explanations are usually meaningless. It's either pleasing to the eye or not.

To dismiss all negative feedback from the DA2 artstyle by saying "you haven't seen it in motion/played it yet" is a big leap from Bioware. 

I can understand saying "you haven't tried the combat yet"   that's true.  But I'm looking at the OFFICIALLY RELEASED art assets.  

And now my comments don't count?  Then why release it?

"To get people talking about your game, ... and then to remember to buy it" - paraphrased Bioware.

I think Bioware is spending too much time w/ Peter Moo:sick:re

[Demx]

Tooneyman wrote...

Ecael wrote...

In order to get 10 million sales, they need to make a western game that appeals to players in Asia - like Blizzard.

Either that, or they'll have to team up with Nintendo to produce a Mario or Pokémon themed RPG.

Well they did take over Mystic, but I don't know exactly how much influence they had in japan.

For some strange reason I would be compelled to buy the game with those two in it. What's wrong with me!

[Grommash94]

Haexpane wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

Other notes

- Bioware cares more what IGN reviewers say than what is on the boards
- They consider most of feedback from the boards "noise"
- They think people complaining about diaper sex are "funny"
- He doesn't think anyone has a right to criticize DA2 until they play it
- He is clearly a PC first developer and doesn't think people "understand" how hard it is to port to consoles

Yes i found the above a little strange, don't understand why Bioware personnel don't care what the customers who buy the games think.
 
If they don't want us to post our opinions why don't they just say so.

With art, explanations are usually meaningless. It's either pleasing to the eye or not.

True, but would you judge art if it is still in the process of being created and refined? That is the case with the DA2 graphics; they are still early, and will be made better. 

Of course, if it is the new art style in general that you do not like, then fair enough.

[2papercuts]

Grommash94 wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

Other notes

- Bioware cares more what IGN reviewers say than what is on the boards
- They consider most of feedback from the boards "noise"
- They think people complaining about diaper sex are "funny"
- He doesn't think anyone has a right to criticize DA2 until they play it
- He is clearly a PC first developer and doesn't think people "understand" how hard it is to port to consoles

Yes i found the above a little strange, don't understand why Bioware personnel don't care what the customers who buy the games think.
 
If they don't want us to post our opinions why don't they just say so.

With art, explanations are usually meaningless. It's either pleasing to the eye or not.

True, but would you judge art if it is still in the process of being created and refined? That is the case with the DA2 graphics; they are still early, and will be made better. 

Of course, if it is the new art style in general that you do not like, then fair enough.

Im not sure how much better the graphics will be by the time DA2 is released though...

[Grommash94]

2papercuts wrote...

Grommash94 wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

Other notes

- Bioware cares more what IGN reviewers say than what is on the boards
- They consider most of feedback from the boards "noise"
- They think people complaining about diaper sex are "funny"
- He doesn't think anyone has a right to criticize DA2 until they play it
- He is clearly a PC first developer and doesn't think people "understand" how hard it is to port to consoles

Yes i found the above a little strange, don't understand why Bioware personnel don't care what the customers who buy the games think.
 
If they don't want us to post our opinions why don't they just say so.

With art, explanations are usually meaningless. It's either pleasing to the eye or not.

True, but would you judge art if it is still in the process of being created and refined? That is the case with the DA2 graphics; they are still early, and will be made better. 

Of course, if it is the new art style in general that you do not like, then fair enough.

Im not sure how much better the graphics will be by the time DA2 is released though...

Well, in the 'Epic in Progress' video, the graphics were comparable to DA:O. They just need to work on the landscapes/lighting.

[TheMadCat]

Grommash94 wrote...

True, but would you judge art if it is still in the process of being created and refined? That is the case with the DA2 graphics; they are still early, and will be made better. 

Of course, if it is the new art style in general that you do not like, then fair enough.

That doesn't mean a person can't look at what is put in front of them and make a rational decison. We're not staring at a blank canvas here, there is actually quite a bit already painted. I agree If one is trying to rate the actual quality of the graphics then yes it's far to early for that, but there has been a lot of questioning of the actual style seen up to this point. Instead of seperating the two Greg lumped both groups together, labeling it all as "loud internet commentary" when people are actually disappointed by things such as the Darkspawns new look, which isn't going to improve all of a sudden because they're moving.

Does it mean they should change it, no. Does it mean they should listen, no. Does it mean they're right and we're wrong, no. It's their game, they can design it however they feel is best to reach a certain number of sales. We can as consumers can also sit back and judge things as they are handed to us because in reality it's all we can do up to this point and it's asinine of them to expect us to do anything differently.

I think it's a bit smug to label any and all who disagree with anything released up to this point as random internet noise because despite what Greg, the rest of BioWare, and the more diehard "fan boys" (Hate this term) may think we're not all ignorant little 10 year olds running our mouths because we have nothing better to do with our time, some of us can look at what's been handed to us, look at the past, look at the need and goal, and form a rational thought and conclusion and refine those thoughts and conclusions as more information is fed to us. But hey, generalized labels are more fun.

They do listen to us, if we present them well. If enough people agree,
or maybe if they simply like it, they can implement it. They need not
tell us that they have, either.

I always like citing Tali and
Garrus' romances as two inclusions that were entirely unnecessary, but
were there because we wanted them to be.

In my experience they'll occasionally throw us a bone but more the most part it is what it is, which is fine. I just hesitate to say BioWare actually listens to us when I've been on community and developer boards where the companies truly do look towards the community in building their games, actually directs themselves based on their customers feedback. BioWare, despite the occasional Gaider popping into a thread saying "Great idea" and giving us a trivial piece of meat to chew on, has for as long as I can remember gone with the "You're either with us or against us" mentality, which is the needed mentality especially these days. You can't really fool around and experiment when you're given a $30, $40, $50 million budget.

I just kind of smirk though when I see a BioWare rep talk about how they're always skimming the forum for ideas and getting involved with the community or a fan talk about how customer friendly BioWare is in their community.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 28 juillet 2010 - 11:09 .

[Saibh]

Haexpane wrote...


There is no doubt that the "internet can be noisy" but I resent being lumped in w/ random internet noise myself.

I took the time to try and register my pre ordered BW/EA games  (only ME2 didn't generate a UPC error), Social Network site, upload my game data, bought all the DLC etc...

But they'd rather read the drivel from Greg Miller or Daemon Hatfield over at IGN "LOL NERDS AND ORCS!":whistle:

Then to say you can't judge the art by looking at it, well so much for humility?

Reminds me of some art classes I took in college. When we did peer critiques for the works, the  best artists would just sit and listen, comment when asked.  (not me, I was average at best, "Drawing for NON ART MAJORS")

Then you had the super defensive people that would counter every negative comment w/ an explanation as to WHY XYZ...

With art, explanations are usually meaningless. It's either pleasing to the eye or not.

To dismiss all negative feedback from the DA2 artstyle by saying "you haven't seen it in motion/played it yet" is a big leap from Bioware. 

I can understand saying "you haven't tried the combat yet"   that's true.  But I'm looking at the OFFICIALLY RELEASED art assets.  

And now my comments don't count?  Then why release it?

"To get people talking about your game, ... and then to remember to buy it" - paraphrased Bioware.

I think Bioware is spending too much time w/ Peter Moo:sick:re

It seems to me--and I'm sorry if this sounds offensive--you have a strong sense of entitlement from being on these forums. These aren't the forums of "make suggestions to BioWare and we will obey!". Nor are they "pose a question, we'll answer!". These are the official forums, where the devs frequent. Ther forum wasn't created around the idea that they'll be our chew toys. If they come here and answer our questions, well, that's more than they have to do.

They don't tell us to sit down and shut up, but with what incredibly little we know about the game, it's ridiculous that people are calling out the first sign of the apocalypse.

Modifié par Saibh, 28 juillet 2010 - 11:11 .

[ashez2ashes]

A 10million goal huh? A lot of those DA2 changes are making sense....

Modifié par ashez2ashes, 28 juillet 2010 - 11:18 .

[TheMadCat]

Saibh wrote...

It seems to me--and I'm sorry if this sounds offensive--you have a strong sense of entitlement from being on these forums. These aren't the forums of "make suggestions to BioWare and we will obey!". Nor are they "pose a question, we'll answer!". These are the official forums, where the devs frequent. Ther forum wasn't created around the idea that they'll be our chew toys. If they come here and answer our questions, well, that's more than they have to do.

Let's not confuse stating an opinion with portraying a sense of entitlement. People can look at something, shake their head in disagreement, and state they don't like it and what they would like without having a sense of entitlement. Having a sense of entitlement would be if one legitly expected and demanded BioWare to change what that individual did not like into something they would. There are a few people of that nature here on these boards, but Haexpane isn't one of them and certainly didn't lay that impression down in that post.

And these forums were created to discuss the game and form opinions of  it if I'm not mistaken, not necessarily praise all that has been handed our way and assume everything being done will equate to being for the best.

They don't tell us to sit down and shut up, but with what incredibly
little we know about the game, it's ridiculous that people are calling
out the first sign of the apocalypse.

At the same time I don't think it's fair to class all people who have stated displeasure with one or several aspects so far released in the doom sayer category. Again, believe it or not there are rational and realistic people on the internet, quite many actually. I know it's easier to brush us all off as raging teens with far to much time on our hands but some of us can look, judge, and evolve that judgement as more information is given to us.

Despite what seems to be David's popular belief, we're not all sitting here sinisterily rubbing our hands and twirling our mustaces with a sly and evil grin, praying DA2 and BioWare fails so we can come to the boards shouting "HAHA TOLD YOU SO, LOLZ NEWBS." We see things and we worry about them and use the board, the only outlet we have with the company, to express our concerns.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 28 juillet 2010 - 11:28 .

[Altima Darkspells]

So, sixty dollars (DA2 will be 60 USD, don't you doubt) times ten million...so, uh, BioWare hopes to make over half a BILLION dollars on a single game?



Ha, ha. Hahahaha. Bwahahaha!



I don't think if you took all the people who've bought BioWare games in their whole life and added them together that it would equal ten million. And that's not counting the people who only like ME2 or the people who dislike the changes from DAO.



Seriously, expecting--not hoping, but outright expecting--a game to sell ten million copies is just insane.



Unless you've brainwashed your player base, like Valve, Bungie, Blizzard, and the like. Even then, I don't think even they expect ten million copies. Heck, Starcraft, jokingly called the national sport of Korea, that has been out for twelves years, hasn't sold ten million copies.

[Haexpane]

Grommash94 wrote...
 
True, but would you judge art if it is still in the process of being created and refined? That is the case with the DA2 graphics; they are still early, and will be made better. 

Of course, if it is the new art style in general that you do not like, then fair enough.

Yes, I see WIP stuff all the time, for instance in Comics they have WIP stuff as bonus material.  Many times I like the pencil only stuff or the "writer concept art for the artist" stuff a lot.

Do you really think the Orcspan and BeardHawke designs are going to change much?

[WilliamShatner]

Q: You've said that you need to take on feedback. In the case of Dragon Age 2, you recently released some new screens and they were met with quite a lot of criticism - but it wasn't exactly constructive, it was more, "Urgh! I don't like that!"



GZ: [laughs]



Q: What's your reaction to that?



GZ: What you don't listen to is the loud internet commentary. The loudest voice is probably not the one you listen to. You listen to the person who put a lot of thought into it, who went out of their way to provide feedback. We're starting public testing for Star Wars: The Old Republic, and the fans are encouraged to write up their perspectives in the private forums. You're not allowed to break NDAs (non-disclosure agreements) - if they want to talk, they can talk all the want in their official, appropriate area. It's interesting to read, and the incites of the fans are valuable. I think there's a sort of thuggish mentality of the crowd on the internet, with people jumping on board. I think it would be very rare that you would find valuable things in the comments section of anything. Occasionally there's stuff, but we're not swayed by it. You can really be reactive to that. We tend to be very analytic, we put it down and move it around until we actually understand it. But I think one of the ways we make great games is by being really, really open to criticism.



Q: That's all very well with constructive criticism, but what would you say to one of the "urgh!" people if they were sitting here right now?



GZ: I'd say, hey, they're entitled to their opinion, but also take a look at the final game when we're done. It's pretty hard to get the full picture That's actually part of the way we've been doing PR the last little while. We haven't specifically been provoking our fans, but we've doing stuff to drive them a little bit up the wall. If you look at the Mass Effect thing with Shepard being dead, or the Marilyn Manson thing [with Dragon Age]... this isn't in the same vein, but you come to expect the response. At the very least, you want people to talk about you. We absolutely stand behind the stuff we're doing with Dragon Age 2. The whole difference is 'played it' versus 'not played it'. That's the litmus test. It's like, "Hey, great. Hold the comment, remember the game, then play it and make your decision at that point." It's funny. On the one hand people don't like change, on the other hand they'll complain if it's all the same. There will be people who say, "Oh, I like Dragon Age just the way it is! I want more of just that!" And then when you give them that they'll say, "Why didn't you make the graphics better?" It's this funny Catch-22, so we in a sense pre-empt them and push it in an innocent direction.

Wow. It's great to know you appreciate your fans Mr Zeschuk.

[thenemesis77]

CarlSpackler wrote...

10 million units? Sure! What developer/publisher in their right mind wouldn’t want to move 10million units. The math is pretty simple, with console games going for $60/pop – there’s $600 million in revenue. Granted that has to be divided among the retailer, publisher, developer but when the numbers are that big there’s plenty to go around. The problem with setting 10 million as the blanket metric for video game sales is it assumes the same interest exists in every genre – which many folks in this thread have already alluded to. 

At the moment, the genre with the highest number of sales is the casual market. Just look at the WII sales charts, or Facebook games. Those games have users/players through the roof. Next would be the large sports franchises, followed by successful FPSs and the GTA style games from Rockstar. GTAIV is probably the highest selling non-wii game in existence. Now after ALL of those games come the Bioware style RPGs. Their brand garners a lot of attention, and in recent years their games have/are selling well. Given the price point and the number of units sold it seems hard to imagine that these games (ME,Me2,DAO) aren’t profitable. Of course as I and others have pointed out elsewhere, profitable isn’t the metric, hitting a sales projection for stockholders have become the metric. 

One way of looking at the problem is this – saying “hey Bioware repeatedly delivers quality games and as their brand and recognition of quality increases – sales will increase.” This is ostensible reasoning – to a point. Eventually Bioware will hit critical mass with the audience that like the nature of the games they develop. Once that well has been tapped though, you aren’t likely to pull gamers who do not enjoy Bioware style games into the fold. At this point they have two options, be content having at least one team (or two) to continue developing games for these gamers who have grown to love their brand and make money from these folks. Or option 2 –try and make their games look more and a more like the more lucrative games on the market. Now they may be able to achieve option 2 and get the kind of success they desire. In which case – Godspeed! However along that road they will undoubtedly continue to lose previous customers. Perhaps they will say – “well, c’est la vie, we lost 4 folks but gained 10 in their place. “ This is all well and good but the 4 folks they lost, do not play any other type of game, and their gaming dollars are lost to the industry. Where if Bioware (or some other developer) would be content to develop games for the smaller subset – there would likely be a continual supply of profit. Not to the degree of the greater budget and bigger revenue market, but profit that wouldn’t be there otherwise.

Now to relate all this to DA2 – to keep with the spirit of these forums– this relates squarely to why some of the folks are concerned about the early news of DA2. There have already been some folks who spent years on these forums who have left Bioware over these very types of changes. What concerns many of us is that there are only a handful of developers that make games we like, and if Bioware should leave the type of game development we like, well, then we don’t have anywhere else to go.

Anyways, to put in my usual caveat, I am looking forward to DA2, while unhappy with some of the decisions on new direction, none are deal-breakers for me. I hope a Bioware game never reaches that point. Apart from the few decisions I don’t like, there are some incredibly intriguing elements I can’t wait to see implemented in DA2, and I have a feeling it will be a great gaming experience. Sorry for the overly long post, cheers!

Right on the money, I have come to the point from getting 10 games a year to getting 1 to 2.  I see where all this is going and it's sad, all I see anymore are FPS, and the  people  seem so zombie like and mindless, all you do is point and shoot....where is the fun in that?   I think the gaming industry is going into a dark ages kind of place,  I really  see myself leaving it in the next few years, BioWare was the last hope for RPGS and I don't see things getting better, but you can't blame people at BioWare, they have jobs and they have to keep their jobs.....so they do what they have to, to live, it's said but RPGS ans smart peole in the gaming world are not what is wanted anymore.

[Haexpane]

TheMadCat wrote...

 

That doesn't mean a person can't look at what is put in front of them and make a rational decison. We're not staring at a blank canvas here, there is actually quite a bit already painted

Instead of seperating the two Greg lumped both groups together, labeling it all as "loud internet commentary" when people are actually disappointed by things such as the Darkspawns new look,

  We can as consumers can also sit back and judge things as they are handed to us because in reality it's all we can do up to this point and it's asinine of them to expect us to do anything differently.

I think it's a bit smug to label any and all who disagree with anything released up to this point as random internet noise because despite what Greg, the rest of BioWare, and the more diehard "fan boys" (Hate this term) may think we're not all ignorant little 10 year olds running our mouths because we have nothing better to do with our time,

some of us can look at what's been handed to us, look at the past, look at the need and goal, and form a rational thought and conclusion and refine those thoughts and conclusions as more information is fed to us. 
 

Well said.

I've never been the type to post "DEVELOPERS READ THIS NA0!"  or expect developers to spend time arguing on the boards.

But the fact that this Greg guy is indeed aware of the feedback from the boards tells us he is far from ignoring it.  He sees it and dismisses it as hater noise.

He'd much rather read a favorable IGN review.  The fact that he mentions he skips to the "closing comments" section has IGN.com written all over it.

I just hope Bioware doesn't turn into the LeBron James of gaming and start crowning themselves Kings and referring to themselves in the third person.

The fact that in the interview he mentioned how much humility they have many times is alarming at best. 

Humble people don't brag about being humble.

[Haexpane]

Saibh wrote...

It seems to me--and I'm sorry if this sounds offensive--you have a strong sense of entitlement from being on these forums.

According to what?  Entitled to what exactly?  Enlighten me please.  I dare you to quote me on anything that supports your insult.

Saibh wrote...
These aren't the forums of "make suggestions to BioWare and we will obey!". Nor are they "pose a question, we'll answer!".

Again, find one quote from me that even remotely resembles that accusation.  You won't find any from me

Saibh wrote...

These are the official forums, where the devs frequent. Ther forum wasn't created around the idea that they'll be our chew toys. If they come here and answer our questions, well, that's more than they have to do.

Again, when have I ever said a Dev needs to come here and "answer my questions"

Next time, before you label, try reading the actual content

Saibh wrote...

They don't tell us to sit down and shut up, but with what incredibly little we know about the game, it's ridiculous that people are calling out the first sign of the apocalypse.

[Haexpane]

TheMadCat wrote...

Saibh wrote...

It seems to me--and I'm sorry if this sounds offensive--you have a strong sense of entitlement from being on these forums. These aren't the forums of "make suggestions to BioWare and we will obey!". Nor are they "pose a question, we'll answer!". These are the official forums, where the devs frequent. Ther forum wasn't created around the idea that they'll be our chew toys. If they come here and answer our questions, well, that's more than they have to do.

Let's not confuse stating an opinion with portraying a sense of entitlement. People can look at something, shake their head in disagreement, and state they don't like it and what they would like without having a sense of entitlement. Having a sense of entitlement would be if one legitly expected and demanded BioWare to change what that individual did not like into something they would. There are a few people of that nature here on these boards, but Haexpane isn't one of them and certainly didn't lay that impression down in that post.

And these forums were created to discuss the game and form opinions of  it if I'm not mistaken, not necessarily praise all that has been handed our way and assume everything being done will equate to being for the best.

They don't tell us to sit down and shut up, but with what incredibly
little we know about the game, it's ridiculous that people are calling
out the first sign of the apocalypse.

At the same time I don't think it's fair to class all people who have stated displeasure with one or several aspects so far released in the doom sayer category. Again, believe it or not there are rational and realistic people on the internet, quite many actually. I know it's easier to brush us all off as raging teens with far to much time on our hands but some of us can look, judge, and evolve that judgement as more information is given to us.

Despite what seems to be David's popular belief, we're not all sitting here sinisterily rubbing our hands and twirling our mustaces with a sly and evil grin, praying DA2 and BioWare fails so we can come to the boards shouting "HAHA TOLD YOU SO, LOLZ NEWBS." We see things and we worry about them and use the board, the only outlet we have with the company, to express our concerns.

TheMAdCat is good

I "demand" that Bioware make TheMadCat playable in DA2 so I can add him to my party! And I am "entitled" to a "developer" directly answering my request :lol::lol:

[Sharn01]

fchopin wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

Other notes

- Bioware cares more what IGN reviewers say than what is on the boards
- They consider most of feedback from the boards "noise"
- They think people complaining about diaper sex are "funny"
- He doesn't think anyone has a right to criticize DA2 until they play it
- He is clearly a PC first developer and doesn't think people "understand" how hard it is to port to consoles

Yes i found the above a little strange, don't understand why Bioware personnel don't care what the customers who buy the games think.
 
If they don't want us to post our opinions why don't they just say so.

In a way they suffer from the very same thing that ails the customers on the internet.  People get up in arms and very argumentative on the forums to a dregree that they never would when talking to people face to face.  The developers and moderators do the exact same thing, they dismiss many people on the forums, occasionally some that are legitimate complaints because they do not see a crowd of people in front of them leveling complaints, but a bunch typed posts that can easily be ignored.

I have a hard time personally posting on the internet,  on the rare occasision that arguments on the forums devolve into petty namecalling I get frustrated, as I have never met a person who had the balls to speak that way to people in person.  Not even my drill instructors back when I was in the military would so actively seek a punch in the face as people do on the internet, where there is no face to punch.

[Haexpane]

TheMadCat wrote...

 We see things and we worry about them and use the board, the only outlet we have with the company, to express our concerns.

Exactly, and if I may go "on record" here, my concerns are simply that the direction of the DA videogame franchise seems to be moving farther away from the 'spiritual successor to BG2" and more along the lines of competing with MW2 sales numbers.

But I have also expressed a lot of hope and joy after seeing the combat video was definitely not nearly as "action" or "god of war" as many had predicted and more grounded.

You see, as a pessimist, I WANT TO BE WRONG!   Being a pessimist means I am often pleasently surprised in life, it's actually quite nice.

Dragon Age Origins was a huge life up for me.  I was pessismistic about the chances of a BG2 game on a console.

Summoner 1 for the PS2, KOTOR 1 and 2 for XBOX were there, but didn't sell as much as hoped (especially Summoner 1)

It seemed like party based RTWP wrpgs were going to go away on consoles.

Then Bioware announced Dragon Age and hope was restored.  Imagine my joy when a console version was announced, like a friggin kid on XMas.

All I have for DA2 is some marketing bullet points, some art assetts and some WIP videos. I posted my comments on that.  /shrug not really a big deal

[errant_knight]

It would seem that the more you care, the less it matters, so.... Not a whole lot of point in talking about DA2. Especially since I have a feeling that all the reaction is part of a fairly peculiar marketing campaign. It's not like they didn't know that traditional RPG fans and people who care even a bit about continuity would be really upset by the changes. They just plain don't care. That being the case, my reaction to everything from this point will be 'whatever...'

[Games4ever]

errant_knight wrote...

It would seem that the more you care, the less it matters, so.... Not a whole lot of point in talking about DA2. Especially since I have a feeling that all the reaction is part of a fairly peculiar marketing campaign. It's not like they didn't know that traditional RPG fans and people who care even a bit about continuity would be really upset by the changes. They just plain don't care. That being the case, my reaction to everything from this point will be 'whatever...'

Well said,and I do Agree

[errant_knight]

WilliamShatner wrote...

Q: You've said that you need to take on feedback. In the case of Dragon Age 2, you recently released some new screens and they were met with quite a lot of criticism - but it wasn't exactly constructive, it was more, "Urgh! I don't like that!"

GZ: [laughs]

Q: What's your reaction to that?

GZ: What you don't listen to is the loud internet commentary. The loudest voice is probably not the one you listen to. You listen to the person who put a lot of thought into it, who went out of their way to provide feedback. We're starting public testing for Star Wars: The Old Republic, and the fans are encouraged to write up their perspectives in the private forums. You're not allowed to break NDAs (non-disclosure agreements) - if they want to talk, they can talk all the want in their official, appropriate area. It's interesting to read, and the incites of the fans are valuable. I think there's a sort of thuggish mentality of the crowd on the internet, with people jumping on board. I think it would be very rare that you would find valuable things in the comments section of anything. Occasionally there's stuff, but we're not swayed by it. You can really be reactive to that. We tend to be very analytic, we put it down and move it around until we actually understand it. But I think one of the ways we make great games is by being really, really open to criticism.

Q: That's all very well with constructive criticism, but what would you say to one of the "urgh!" people if they were sitting here right now?

GZ: I'd say, hey, they're entitled to their opinion, but also take a look at the final game when we're done. It's pretty hard to get the full picture That's actually part of the way we've been doing PR the last little while. We haven't specifically been provoking our fans, but we've doing stuff to drive them a little bit up the wall. If you look at the Mass Effect thing with Shepard being dead, or the Marilyn Manson thing [with Dragon Age]... this isn't in the same vein, but you come to expect the response. At the very least, you want people to talk about you. We absolutely stand behind the stuff we're doing with Dragon Age 2. The whole difference is 'played it' versus 'not played it'. That's the litmus test. It's like, "Hey, great. Hold the comment, remember the game, then play it and make your decision at that point." It's funny. On the one hand people don't like change, on the other hand they'll complain if it's all the same. There will be people who say, "Oh, I like Dragon Age just the way it is! I want more of just that!" And then when you give them that they'll say, "Why didn't you make the graphics better?" It's this funny Catch-22, so we in a sense pre-empt them and push it in an innocent direction.

Wow. It's great to know you appreciate your fans Mr Zeschuk.

Yeah, that really made me feel terrific. Just...awesome.

Modifié par errant_knight, 29 juillet 2010 - 12:19 .

[Games4ever]

Just don't understand why they have this forum then,if they don't care anyway what fans say

Someone remind me, what's the point?

[Wabi wa Sabi]

On the one hand people don't like change, on the other hand they'll
complain if it's all the same. There will be people who say, "Oh, I like
Dragon Age just the way it is! I want more of just that!" And then when
you give them that they'll say, "Why didn't you make the graphics
better?" It's this funny Catch-22, so we in a sense pre-empt them and
push it in an innocent direction.

Despite the tone of the interview, no one can deny the truth in this part. I sympathise with any game developers, because in some ways the situation can turn out to be a lose-lose.

[SDNcN]

So people are really surprised a company wants to increase their profits and they don't make decisions based off opinions of small but vocal groups on the internet? Wow.