265 réponses à ce sujet

[Rubbish Hero]

If this was a lower budget isometric game, without the big Hollywood emulation with thousands of dollars thrown into it, the production cost would probably be significantly less. Would this allow the game to be more like an old school RPG and allow a lower unit of sales while still making a decent profit? Probably.

[Gaxhung]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

If this was a lower budget isometric game, without the big Hollywood emulation with thousands of dollars thrown into it, the production cost would probably be significantly less. Would this allow the game to be more like an old school RPG and allow a lower unit of sales while still making a decent profit? Probably.

Like Just Dance for Wii, that is low budget but made huge profit. -- Just dan dan dan DANCE! (haha actually I like that game, not knocking it)

[Koffeegirl]

Hmmm maybe they are hoping those sales figures are for TOR, DA2, and ME3 combined? That could be doable for 2011 combined with DLC profits.....also for TOR.....it really depends on how good it is....u can never underestimate Star Wars fans they make get this game in overwhelming numbers....and a lot of people who play WOW tend to try other MMORPGS for a while and then go back to WOW...the question is will TOR be engaging enough to keep those players from going back to WOW and engaging enough for Star Wars fans to stick with it.......
Edit: also the quote says "future releases" so I do think that means all of their future games/DLC......if you think about it they could strive for 5million for TOR and 5 million across all platforms for ME3 and DA2 combined with DLC sales.

Modifié par Koffeegirl, 29 juillet 2010 - 09:12 .

[Rubbish Hero]

Gaxhung wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...

If this was a lower budget isometric game, without the big Hollywood emulation with thousands of dollars thrown into it, the production cost would probably be significantly less. Would this allow the game to be more like an old school RPG and allow a lower unit of sales while still making a decent profit? Probably.

Like Just Dance for Wii, that is low budget but made huge profit. -- Just dan dan dan DANCE! (haha actually I like that game, not knocking it)

Torchwood was an extremely low budget game with a tiny staff amount compared to Bioware and practically not mainstream coverage.  Sold about  half a million copies. I think pc gamers are different from console
gamers, they care less about the presentation and more about the actual  substance. That's what Mass Effect is compared to Dragon Age, presentation over substance. Probably why most people are wanting Dragon Age to not be Dragon Effect.

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 29 juillet 2010 - 10:21 .

[CarlSpackler]

Grommash94 wrote...

dbankier wrote...

Azdeus wrote...

There are developers here reading, that much is noticeable - but how much of our input/feedback actually gets taken in is a question for them to answer more clearly. I can't tell due to not really following development cycles for either DAO or ME2.

Bioware has always done their own thing, this is nothing new.

I think it is good they do that tbh. Mythic made the mistake of listening to their most vocal fans for WAR, and they ended up hurting the game in general.

Sure you should care about your fans, but that should just be it. That applies to everything really. Bands shouldn't change because their fans don't like their new direction, writers shouldn't change the endings to their books, and developers should do what they feel is best. If there are enough fans that hate those decisions, then the developer would most likely go back to their roots. So, basically, if you don't agree with the 'new' BioWare and its directions, don't buy the game, and speak with your wallet. At least, thats what I think anyway.

Also, I really haven't seen anything that really shows that BioWare doesn't care anymore. All the interview shows is that the guy doesn't think the more vocal fans shouldn't dictate the direction of the game. Not that anyone here is arguing that they should.

Indeed.  Most of the greatest artists of other mediums made the movie, music, wrote the book that they the artist wanted most.  Listening to the noise as your vision for artistic direction is almost always the first step towards disaster.  Gaming is a little different with things such as interface design and input from your audience.  There has to be some feedback that corrects the mistakes, but as a whole I think as consumers its better for us that the developers make the game that they think will be the best gaming experience within the genre they're attempting.  What is potentially worrisome to me isn't that Bioware is ignoring their fanbase, its that they're not ignoring other outside market factors - suggestions from corporate, leaning too heavily on what the market is doing etc.  I'm worried that in the long run they may allow various outside factors to have too great of an influence on the direction their games take.  Thats one reason I've tried to limit my concerns and questions to things that are fairly known quantities.

All that being said I think sometime in the future the technology is going to allow for much cheaper game development.  Right now a AAA title has an obscene budget, but as the tools become more refined, smaller and/or independent developers will have access to them and be able to make games that on some level will be able to compete with the AAA market.  Much like the film noir movement that came out of the 40s.  They were movies that focused more on plot and character development because they didn't have the budget of the larger hollywood films.  There was a certain production quality lacking, but in comparison those films were still recognizeable as a feature film.  This is my hope for future game development.  

[Games4ever]

Just think that Pac-Man have sold 7 million

[The Interloper]

10 million is just implausible.



The only PC games to break that line (that I can find) were the Sims, WoW, and Starcraft, and that one has the entire nation of South Korea on its side. The first Half Life has sold about 9-10 million. From the consol side, Halo 3 sold 8 million and MW 2 about 12 million on both consols. Everything else is either Wii stuff or San Andreas (mid teens).



My guess is that it will do about as well as the first.

[Solid N7]

Games4ever wrote...

This debate is pointless,Bioware don't care,we don't care anymore.

good with  this I hope you stop whining

[Rubbish Hero]

The Interloper wrote...

10 million is just implausible.

The only PC games to break that line (that I can find) were the Sims, WoW, and Starcraft, and that one has the entire nation of South Korea on its side. The first Half Life has sold about 9-10 million. From the consol side, Halo 3 sold 8 million and MW 2 about 12 million on both consols. Everything else is either Wii stuff or San Andreas (mid teens).

My guess is that it will do about as well as the first.

Yea, they are seriously aiming way too high.

[Lyssistr]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

Gaxhung wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...

If this was a lower budget isometric game, without the big Hollywood emulation with thousands of dollars thrown into it, the production cost would probably be significantly less. Would this allow the game to be more like an old school RPG and allow a lower unit of sales while still making a decent profit? Probably.

Like Just Dance for Wii, that is low budget but made huge profit. -- Just dan dan dan DANCE! (haha actually I like that game, not knocking it)

Torchwood was an extremely low budget game with a tiny staff amount compared to Bioware and practically not mainstream coverage.  Sold about  half a million copies. I think pc gamers are different from console
gamers, they care less about the presentation and more about the actual  substance. That's what Mass Effect is compared to Dragon Age, presentation over substance. Probably why most people are wanting Dragon Age to not be Dragon Effect.

Dude, do you mean Torchlight? I know of no trochwood game and torchlight indeed had reached the 0.5 mil mark about a month ago.

[Rubbish Hero]

Lyssistr wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...

Gaxhung wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...

If this was a lower budget isometric game, without the big Hollywood emulation with thousands of dollars thrown into it, the production cost would probably be significantly less. Would this allow the game to be more like an old school RPG and allow a lower unit of sales while still making a decent profit? Probably.

Like Just Dance for Wii, that is low budget but made huge profit. -- Just dan dan dan DANCE! (haha actually I like that game, not knocking it)

Torchwood was an extremely low budget game with a tiny staff amount compared to Bioware and practically not mainstream coverage.  Sold about  half a million copies. I think pc gamers are different from console
gamers, they care less about the presentation and more about the actual  substance. That's what Mass Effect is compared to Dragon Age, presentation over substance. Probably why most people are wanting Dragon Age to not be Dragon Effect.

Dude, do you mean Torchlight? I know of no trochwood game and torchlight indeed had reached the 0.5 mil mark about a month ago.

I sorry, I think of tv show for some reason.

[Saibh]

Alright. I said this back a few pages ago, but you guys missed it. I'm saying it again...again.

I'd like to say again: the article does not say "we expect DA2 to sell 10 million copies". They said that's what they want from future releases. This can include DLC, SW:TOR, and DA2.

"We always joke that if we only do half as well as Blizzard on Star Wars: The Old Republic, we'll be quite satisfied."

"BioWare is currently working on continued DLC for Mass Effect 2. The studio has also announced Dragon Age 2 and Star Wars: The Old Republic for release in March 2011 and spring 2011, respectively."

Modifié par Saibh, 29 juillet 2010 - 06:36 .

[Vulee94]

I doesn't matter what you say, the trolls will overwhelm you...

[Haexpane]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

If this was a lower budget isometric game, without the big Hollywood emulation with thousands of dollars thrown into it, the production cost would probably be significantly less. Would this allow the game to be more like an old school RPG and allow a lower unit of sales while still making a decent profit? Probably.

More like MILLIONS of dollars of hollywood production, not just thousands.

IMO this model of somewhere between indie and EA big budget is the last true hope for the game industry.  Right now everyone is looking at CODMW2 sales and thinking "how do I do that?"  I fear for the industry if all the money goes into chasing MW2 numbers.

I believe making smaller, sustainable, profitable games bigger than iPhone apps, but playable on HD consoles is where it's at

I'd buy Baldur's Gate 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 if they were disc based, isometric 2D games w/ the same or similar engine.  Priced at $30 each

As much as  I love Claudia Black, I don't need her Mo - Capped and I don't need Maralyn Manson licensing to enjoy an RPG.

[Mister Mida]

10 million copies of one particular game? When was the last time this was achieved? It really sounds ridiculous to set a goal like that.

[SDNcN]

The Interloper wrote...

10 million is just implausible.

The only PC games to break that line (that I can find) were the Sims, WoW, and Starcraft, and that one has the entire nation of South Korea on its side. The first Half Life has sold about 9-10 million. From the consol side, Halo 3 sold 8 million and MW 2 about 12 million on both consols. Everything else is either Wii stuff or San Andreas (mid teens).

My guess is that it will do about as well as the first.

You do know that DA:2 is being released on consoles as well as the PC right?

[Grommash94]

Mister Mida wrote...

10 million copies of one particular game? When was the last time this was achieved? It really sounds ridiculous to set a goal like that.

That isn't their goal.

[Bryy_Miller]

Saibh wrote...

Alright. I said this back a few pages ago, but you guys missed it. I'm saying it again...again.

I'd like to say again: the article does not say "we expect DA2 to sell 10 million copies". They said that's what they want from future releases. This can include DLC, SW:TOR, and DA2.

"We always joke that if we only do half as well as Blizzard on Star Wars: The Old Republic, we'll be quite satisfied."

"BioWare is currently working on continued DLC for Mass Effect 2. The studio has also announced Dragon Age 2 and Star Wars: The Old Republic for release in March 2011 and spring 2011, respectively."

gogogogogoggogogogogogo

[TheMadCat]

Saibh wrote...

Alright. I said this back a few pages ago, but you guys missed it. I'm saying it again...again.

I'd like to say again: the article does not say "we expect DA2 to sell 10 million copies". They said that's what they want from future releases. This can include DLC, SW:TOR, and DA2.

"We always joke that if we only do half as well as Blizzard on Star Wars: The Old Republic, we'll be quite satisfied."

"BioWare is currently working on continued DLC for Mass Effect 2. The studio has also announced Dragon Age 2 and Star Wars: The Old Republic for release in March 2011 and spring 2011, respectively."

It's not really clear what the number referred to, this line right here...

"Well, we need to sell 10 million units," said Zeschuk. "That's actually
the new target, right? We do Top 10 games, our stuff is quite
successful. I know Mass [Effect 2] is number eight so far this year, in
North America.

Can easily be interpeted as them setting a goal of 10 million units per game. It can also be seen as them referring to ToR with another quote, or it being amongst several titles based on the things you quoted, or it could have been a joke. The article didn't lay it out crystal clear.

[Grommash94]

TheMadCat wrote...

"Well, we need to sell 10 million units," said Zeschuk. "That's actually
the new target, right? We do Top 10 games, our stuff is quite
successful. I know Mass [Effect 2] is number eight so far this year, in
North America.

Can easily be interpeted as them setting a goal of 10 million units per game. It can also be seen as them referring to ToR with another quote, or it being amongst several titles based on the things you quoted, or it could have been a joke. The article didn't lay it out crystal clear.

True enough. I seriously doubt that he believes that they will be able to sell 10 million units per game though; that does not seem possible, whatsoever. 

Modifié par Grommash94, 29 juillet 2010 - 08:36 .

[Lyssistr]

Haexpane wrote...

I'd buy Baldur's Gate 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 if they were disc based, isometric 2D games w/ the same or similar engine.  Priced at $30 each

You may do as you say but I doubt even old schoolers would buy infinity engine games these days. There are a couple of companies making games in this style, I played a few of their demos and literally fell asleep.

Of course Bioware could do a better job than these companies with a low end engine -as they've proved with BG series-, however I think the offers of an infinity-engine clone belong to the past and very few people would buy these sort of games now.

 Companies that fill this niche now, have ridiculous pricing, which hints that there's a small cult willing to pay any price for their games. Making prices reasonable, say ~10-15£ per se, won't necessarily lure more consumers, it may still be only "believers" that purchase.

 The only game of this size & scope I found worthy of my money was in fact Torchlight, during a Steam offer, which however has nice looking graphics, fair pricing and is made by ex-Diablo devs - which speaks volumes, Diablo series have been awesome so far.

 Now if one a game of that scope had e.g. no VO but used a modern, yet not cutting edge, engine like Ogre3D to create artistically nice graphics -not necessarily AAA quality-, had decent sound, interesting combat mechanics, well polished areas with variety in style & lore, awesome story & dialogue. I'd buy it, I'd even pay 15£ if it was that good, 10£ otherwise.

 If it was literally a new IE game released in '10, I wouldn't bother at all.

[In Exile]

From the quote, it sounds like all they are saying is that 10 million is what they would take to consider a major versus minor success, which doesn't particularly seem related to DA2, unless you happen to think they set out making ME2, ME, and DA hoping to sell under a particular target.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Rubbish Hero wrote...
Torchwood was an extremely low budget game with a tiny staff amount compared to Bioware and practically not mainstream coverage.  Sold about  half a million copies. I think pc gamers are different from console
gamers, they care less about the presentation and more about the actual  substance. That's what Mass Effect is compared to Dragon Age, presentation over substance. Probably why most people are wanting Dragon Age to not be Dragon Effect.

Torchlight might have sold well, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was a good game.  It was readily available for download on Steam and more importantly, CHEAPER than most games.  I'm not saying that's a bad profit model (just look at World of Goo and its epic win), but Torchlight was definitely a run-of-the-mill, connect the dots, snoozy RPG that had nothing particularly unique about it.  It wasn't good or bad, it was just a meh of a game.  Substance?  I guess, in the same sense that Wonderbread has substance.

And as for the whole PC/console gamers thing, we need to disabuse ourselves of the notion that there is a glorious PC gaming elite cadre.  A lot of people game multiplatform, and do so because each platform has strengths and weaknesses.  Everyone with an intact visual association cortex cares about presentation.  Everyone with half a neuron elsewhere cares about substance.

[TheMadCat]

Grommash94 wrote...


True enough. I seriously doubt that he believes that they will be able to sell 10 million units per game though; that does not seem possible, whatsoever. 

With their current philosophies and designs it's impossible, but if they're willing to detach themselves a bit further from the traditional RPG genre, which they've slowly done over the past decade, to go alongside the backing of EA's near $5.3b in assessts I see no reason why 10 million isn't possible. They have the size, the cash, the name, the backing, and the talent, all they have to do is continue a push away from the traditional RPG genre and align their design to the tastes of the larger chunks of the market. Games have done it before, BioWare has the ability, they just need a good stirring of the pot to make it happen.