265 réponses à ce sujet

[Svest]

TheMadCat wrote...
Except he gave a direct number, (Albeit with an unclear use). You don't need to sell 10 million units of a game to have a blockbuster, 10 million is well beyond the level of a blockbuster especially for an RPG/Hybrid. We're looking at the exact number stated, not the fact he wants to sell lots and lots of copies.

So?  He considers 10 million to be a major hit.  His goal is to make a game that sells 10 million copies.  What's wrong with that?  If Blizzard can do it with a RTS why can't Bioware do it with an RPG?  Especially a RPG/FPS hybrid like Mass Effect.  I would say that ME falls into a far less niche category than Starcraft (there are far more FPS players than RTS players).  Or SWTOR, or whatever their next big project is going to be.

He didn't say 10 million is his goal for DA2.  Just that a future goal is to create a game that sells 10 million copies.  I seriously doubt he expects DA2 to sell 10 million.  The man is not an idiot.  Just because he wants a game that sells 10 million does not mean he expects every game they make to sell 10 million.  The man even said "Sometimes I'm facetious when I say some of those things, knowing that we can sell a few million"

[Svest]

TheMadCat wrote...

Valente11 wrote...

I find it hilarious that people are making a problem out of the fact that a company has a sales goal. You never cease to amaze me Bioware forums!

And the fact that specific goal is deemed nearly impossible by all present standards isn't enough to spark a little curioisty and debate?

The goal is not even remotely impossible.  There are lots of games that have sold over 10 million.  If others can do it why can't Bioware?  They have lots of talent and financial backing, why shouldn't they go for it?  People are just making an unfounded assumption that he meant "DA2 must sell 10 million copies" when he said nothing of the sort.

Modifié par Svest, 29 juillet 2010 - 10:05 .

[TheMadCat]

Svest wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...
Except he gave a direct number, (Albeit with an unclear use). You don't need to sell 10 million units of a game to have a blockbuster, 10 million is well beyond the level of a blockbuster especially for an RPG/Hybrid. We're looking at the exact number stated, not the fact he wants to sell lots and lots of copies.

So?  He considers 10 million to be a major hit.  His goal is to make a game that sells 10 million copies.  What's wrong with that?  If Blizzard can do it with a RTS why can't Bioware do it with an RPG?  Especially a RPG/FPS hybrid like Mass Effect.  I would say that ME falls into a far less niche category than Starcraft (there are far more FPS players than RTS players).  Or SWTOR, or whatever their next big project is going to be.

He didn't say 10 million is his goal for DA2.  Just that a future goal is to create a game that sells 10 million copies.  I seriously doubt he expects DA2 to sell 10 million.  The man is not an idiot.  Just because he wants a game that sells 10 million does not mean he expects every game they make to sell 10 million.  The man even said "Sometimes I'm facetious when I say some of those things, knowing that we can sell a few million"

Because all indication is neither Mass Effect, Dragon Age, or Mass Effect 2 have broken 5 million in sales, which means they'd have to more then double their fan base for both series. 10 million for this genre in unheard of, the only game in the RTS genre to pull that off is Starcraft and that is solely a result of South Korea. It's a massive number to strive for and would be as close to impossible as something can get in present times. We're simply discussing the possibilities and merits of such a number.

And I've already said plenty of times that we don't know what Greg was directing that number at, and I'm fully aware he doesn't expect every game to hit that number nor is that game a disappointment if it doesn't. BUT, he brought up the number, the article relayed it to us in an unclear state, we're discussing it's merits. What in God's name is wrong with that?

The goal is not even remotely impossible.  There are lots of games
that have sold over 10 million.  If others can do it why can't Bioware? 
They have lots of talent and financial backing, why shouldn't they go
for it?  People are just making an unfounded assumption that he meant
"DA2 must sell 10 million copies" when he said nothing of the sort.

Name me one traditional Western Fantasy single player RPG or Science Fiction single player RPG which has sold 10 million copies and your point stands. Rest of the stuff you just reiterated what I said two pages back.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 29 juillet 2010 - 10:14 .

[Rubbish Hero]

In Exile wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote... Torchlight might have sold well, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was a good game. 

www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/torchlight

Critics thinks so, as do most gamers who like Diabo.

Critics rate Mass Effect 2 at 94 compared t the 83 for Torchlight. So quite obviously Torchlight should be more like Mass Effect 2, such that it can be even better in the eyes of the critics.

Terrible logic.

[Games4ever]

They shouldnt be focusing on sales,make a quality game and the sales will come,it's not so difficult to understand.

make poor quality with many errors,and fail
just look at the awakening

Modifié par Games4ever, 29 juillet 2010 - 10:15 .

[In Exile]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote... Torchlight might have sold well, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was a good game. 

www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/torchlight

Critics thinks so, as do most gamers who like Diabo.

Critics rate Mass Effect 2 at 94 compared t the 83 for Torchlight. So quite obviously Torchlight should be more like Mass Effect 2, such that it can be even better in the eyes of the critics.

Terrible logic.

Very much so. Which is why talking about the quality of Torchlight using an internet ranking is site... dubious. Thanks for seeing my point.

[Rubbish Hero]

In Exile wrote...Very much so. Which is why talking about the quality of Torchlight using an internet ranking is site... dubious

Not really, general consensus can easily be indicated. To totally dismiss metacritic is ridiculous, it does have it uses and in this case,it can be logically applied to the comment.

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 29 juillet 2010 - 10:19 .

[Svest]

TheMadCat wrote...

Name me one traditional Western Fantasy single player RPG or Science Fiction single player RPG which has sold 10 million copies and your point stands.

Show me where he said he was talking about a "traditional Western Fantasy single player RPG or Science Fiction single player RPG" and your point stands.  He said he wants to make a game that sells over 10 million.  "Traditional Western Fantasy single player RPG or Science Fiction single player RPG" are not the only kinds of games Bioware is making or has made in the past.  They are currently working on a MMO, which I doubt I have to give you an example that has sold over 10 million since we all know what it is.  They have also made good FPS games in the past.  Maybe the next project he wants to work on is a huge budget shooter.  For a man in his position DA2 is old news, he's already working on planning what's next.

[Haexpane]

metacritic works best if you ignore all IGN ratings

[TheMadCat]

Svest wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

Name me one traditional Western Fantasy single player RPG or Science Fiction single player RPG which has sold 10 million copies and your point stands.

Show me where he said he was talking about a "traditional Western Fantasy single player RPG or Science Fiction single player RPG" and your point stands.  He said he wants to make a game that sells over 10 million.  "Traditional Western Fantasy single player RPG or Science Fiction single player RPG" are not the only kinds of games Bioware is making or has made in the past.  They are currently working on a MMO, which I doubt I have to give you an example that has sold over 10 million since we all know what it is.  They have also made good FPS games in the past.  Maybe the next project he wants to work on is a huge budget shooter.  For a man in his position DA2 is old news, he's already working on planning what's next.

That's the problem, he didn't link anything directly to that number nor did he portray it as a goal for multiple games. But looking at these two paragraphs...

At the Develop conference in Brighton earlier this month Zeschuk
spoke about BioWare's fortune to have had a few "minor" hits. But if the
likes of Mass Effect and Dragon Age are considered minor, what's needed
to be classed as a major one?"Well, we need to sell 10 million
units," said Zeschuk. "That's actually the new target, right? We do Top
10 games, our stuff is quite successful. I know Mass [Effect 2] is
number eight so far this year, in North America.

What exactly there makes it so unreasonable to assume he's talking about the individual titles for their three/four series of games? That's all we're doing here, looking and assuming at the possibility he's talking about games such as Dragon Age and Mass Effect. We've alreay acknoweldged ToR has a good chance of hitting that number and it's a fair goal (I did this several pages ago), we've already acknowledged he could have possibily been lumping numerous games together to reach that goal, we've already acknowledged the lack of clarity in the article and the vagueness of the statement, the only piece left to ackowledge is the possibility that he was stating this as a goal for all individual titles.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 29 juillet 2010 - 10:29 .

[Svest]

TheMadCat wrote...

What exactly there makes it so unreasonable to assume he's talking about the individual titles for their three/four series of games? That's all we're doing here, looking and assuming at the possibility he's talking about games such as Dragon Age and Mass Effect. We've alreay acknoweldged ToR has a good chance of hitting that number and it's a fair goal (I did this several pages ago), we've already acknowledged he could have possibily been lumping numerous games together to reach that goal, we've already acknowledged the lack of clarity in the article and the vagueness of the statement, the only piece left to ackowledge is the possibility that he was stating this as a goal for all individual titles.

In order for him to think that every single title they develop will sell 10 million copies he would have to be a complete moron.  The man is not a complete moron, so that is obviously not what he was saying.

Like I said, people are reading way to far into a VP of a major development studio saying he wants to make a hugely successful game, and that he defines hugely successful as 10 million sold.  This is not an absurd goal for a studio with the talent and money Bioware has access to.  You have even said they already have one game in development with that potential.  Who knows (except maybe Dr Zeschuk) what they are going to be working on next.

Edit: Also, basic reading comprehension is what makes it unreasonable to assume he's talking about ME or DA.  He's basically saying that even though ME is good it didn't meet his goal for being a "major hit", so he wants to make something that will.

Modifié par Svest, 29 juillet 2010 - 10:52 .

[TheMadCat]

Svest wrote..

In order for him to think that every single title they develop will sell 10 million copies he would have to be a complete moron.  The man is not a complete moron, so that is obviously not what he was saying.

Like I said, people are reading way to far into a VP of a major development studio saying he wants to make a hugely successful game, and that he defines hugely successful as 10 million sold.  This is not an absurd goal for a studio with the talent and money Bioware has access to.  You have even said they already have one game in development with that potential.  Who knows (except maybe Dr Zeschuk) what they are going to be working on next.

I take it you're not a proponent of people setting realistic goals, considering you just said he'd be a moron to expect all his titles to reach 10 million sales but agree with him setting such a goal.

And we're not looking far into anything, I'll reiterate myself once more we're simply discussing the merits and possibilities of a single player western RPG hitting 10 million sales.

Edit: Also, basic reading comprehension is what makes it unreasonable to assume he's talking about ME or DA.  He's basically saying that even though ME is good it didn't meet his goal for being a "major hit", so he wants to make something that will.

Whose to say the thing they want to reach that goal isn't, say, DA2 or ME3? Again there is nothing specific attached to the number, it's simply the number he views as a major hit and he'd like some BioWare games to reach it. And again, we're looking at the possibility of a western single player RPG reaching that number. I still don't understand why you or anyone else would have a problem with us debating whether it's a reasonable goal for games in this genre.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 29 juillet 2010 - 11:09 .

[In Exile]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

In Exile wrote...Very much so. Which is why talking about the quality of Torchlight using an internet ranking is site... dubious

Not really, general consensus can easily be indicated. To totally dismiss metacritic is ridiculous, it does have it uses and in this case,it can be logically applied to the comment.

Indeed. So the general concensus is that Mass Effect is the far superior game. Almost 10 points superior in rating, after all.

[SOLID_EVEREST]

If they released DA: 2 in October, they would've probably not sold even close to 10 million because of the pretty stiff competition. I mean Fallout: New Vegas is already huge, but they would also have to compete with Gothic: Arcania and Two Worlds II. I think these three titles would keep me occupied well into the time it takes for DA: 2 to reach the budget bin lol. I think that number is very unrealistic, and I have the feeling that they've enjoyed their lack of RPG time frame too much. I think they should look at their competition before they make any judgements.

[mr_nameless]

10 million?! ROFL.

[Annihilator27]

Damn 10 mil? **** hefty goal, Im all in.

[Dave of Canada]

IT'S OVER 9000!

[Rubbish Hero]

In Exile wrote...Indeed. So the general concensus is that Mass Effect is the far superior game. Almost 10 points superior in rating, after all.

Diffrent set of reviewers, diffrent review counts.
No longer logical argument.

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 30 juillet 2010 - 09:47 .

[Arttis]

ME was good.

It lacks the length and replay DA gives though.

Unless your really into combat.

[DaringMoosejaw]

What's wrong with aiming high? That's what you're supposed to do.

[Rubbish Hero]

Icarus aimed high.

[DaringMoosejaw]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

Icarus aimed high.

So Bioware setting high sale goals in order to keep the company working toward something will...result in them being set on fire? I don't think the analogy works.

[Rubbish Hero]

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...

Icarus aimed high.

So Bioware setting high sale goals in order to keep the company working toward something will...result in them being set on fire? I don't think the analogy works.

Blizzard the sun, Bioware wax, wings EA, ground Mass Effect.
It's actually really clever when you think out it, probably the most clever.

[Vulee94]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

It's actually really clever when you think out it, probably the most clever.

Well, aren't you modest...

On topic:
This should serve as a reminder to BioWare, NEVER have a goal to aspire to, ALWAYS think you're going to fail miserably. That way, the so-called "old-school fans" will be happy. <_<
These forums are so depressing.