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[steelfire_dragon]

Grommash94 wrote...

steelfire_dragon wrote...

NO the maker does not exist, he is nothing, and nothing his he.
andraste is nothing but the bride of nothing.


the Maker is evil, andraste is evil, your stupid chantry is nothing, your blaspemus chant of light is nothing but lies.
I spit on your maker, I urinated in Andraste's ashes and burned several of your chantrys down to the ground with victims in side.


They all will rest in the black city.

A lot of hate for a fictional religion eh? 

yes, yes it is.

and I was doing so in fictional character.....


have fun resting in the black city

[JergenKajaton]

Sandal is the Way, the Truth, and the Light. No man comes to the Maker except through Him.

[steelfire_dragon]

Sandal is not the maker's son either but an OLD GOD who is rising to power to thwart the maker and his lies.



ALL the MAKER's children will rott with him in the black city, and will watch as he mutilates his so called bride into many pieces twice each day.





the maker is nothing but lies.....



I sure am glad Bioware is cool enough not to put a easter egg of all this in their games....

[MotoSkunkX]

No. TLDR version; Powerful tevinter blood mages taught by dragons enter "golden city" probably constructed by either a very powerful demon or the dragons themselves. They get turned into the first darkspawn by whoever made it, dragons in all probability knew this would happen. It was either part of THE PLAN, or maybe they hated whoever made the city(assuming it wasnt them).



They did it to have an immense horde of corrupted sentients under their direct control. Or something not yet made clear.

[GodWood]

no

[gotthammer]

JergenKajaton wrote...

Sandal is the Way, the Truth, and the Light. No man comes to the Maker except through Him.

HERESY! Sandal IS the Maker!   

[AlexXIV]

Not sure if any of you or how many of you played Morrowind. I liked it that the gods there have actually once been mortals who 'ascended' to godhood. You can find that actually in a lot of myths and legends, that gods are more like immortal ancestors than an entirely different race or being. I also don't like the approach of the big religions in our time that there has to be an all-powerful, unfailable, immortal god.

That said I rather would see a sort of deus ex machina. Not in the common use of the word, but in a more literal way. A god made by a machine, or a machine 'melting' with a mortal being to become a god. So in that case the 'Maker' would right now be a machine without a soul, lost somewhere and waiting for you or me (the main character) to find it, melt with it and return it to life. Thus the Maker returns.

I guess I like that because I don't like the thought of the existance of 'gods' unless a mortal being could achieve it.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 29 juillet 2010 - 11:44 .

[AlexXIV]

Oh and by the way SirShrek, I feel you are a bit obsessed with Arlathan being the Golden City. I have seen a couple of your posts suggesting it. The thing is though, I doubt it is the concept of Bioware's fantasy world. The dwarves have their Paragons, The elves have their creators, and the humans have their Maker. Well there are also the Qunari who have the Qun. Anyway, the Maker is if anything a human god and the elves who worship him or believe in him are just 'domesticated'. I think the Dalish are the 'true' elves who follow their true ancient paths.

And the reason why there are no records in elven lore about a Maker is, in my opinion, that the elves didn't care. They have always been focused on their own culture and ... business, so they probably didn't care for this Maker the humans kept mentioning. And they probably didn't find it worth their time to study or record knowledge about Him.

[valleyman88]

SirShreK wrote...
I believe that the word Magic is not simply associated with Bunnies out
of Hats. If this was a general practice, it would not be magic, as
Magic is by definition is something that is NOT possible, but somehow
happens.

That's the definition for reality. In Thedas, magic does not break the rules of nature. It's a part of the world that can be studied and understood.

[Svest]

SirShreK wrote...

valleyman88 wrote...

SirShreK wrote...
I believe that the word Magic is not simply associated with Bunnies out
of Hats. If this was a general practice, it would not be magic, as
Magic is by definition is something that is NOT possible, but somehow
happens.

That's the definition for reality. In Thedas, magic does not break the rules of nature. It's a part of the world that can be studied and understood.

Then why do they call it magic?????!

Call it something else! It confuses me so!

They call it magic because the game is "translated" into English.  Like I said before, we have no word for whatever "magic" is in their world.  You don't actually think a whole different world would develop language that is identical to English do you?  They speak it because the game would be pretty boring for most people in some gibberish made up language with subtitles.  Same reason versions of the game in other languages have new voice actors speaking that language.

Either that or you just need to consider the idea that the definition of magic might not quite as absolute as you think it is.

Modifié par Svest, 29 juillet 2010 - 04:07 .

[steelfire_dragon]

Sandal is a tool.

a tool to kill the maker

and when the makers dies, Sandal will feast on his entrails

Sandal will rule

and When Sandal rules, you will be a bunyon on his left toe.

and then you will be grateful for the chance.

[JergenKajaton]

So what happened to SirShrek? His posts were an interesting blend of thoughtfulness and... uh, lack of thoughtfulness. He seemed to struggle a bit with formal logic (not an uncommon difficulty, and therefore nothing to be ashamed of, provided one is willing to learn), but he made some thought-provoking observations. I'm going to miss him.

[Sigma Tauri]

AlexXIV wrote...
You can find that actually in a lot of myths and legends, that gods are more like immortal ancestors than an entirely different race or being.

I'm not sure you realize this, but apotheosis is achieving an entirely different state of being. The Tribunal achieved it, moreso with Vivec than any of the three.

DA seems to be nearly bereft of apotheosis, the closest being dwarven Paragons. It's an unusually mundane world.

Modifié par monkeycamoran, 30 juillet 2010 - 07:59 .

[SnakeHelah]

There is no Maker! There is only SATAN!

[steelfire_dragon]

Blasphemy there is onlt the Stones

[Sable Rhapsody]

monkeycamoran wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...
You can find that actually in a lot of myths and legends, that gods are more like immortal ancestors than an entirely different race or being.

I'm not sure you realize this, but apotheosis is achieving an entirely different state of being. The Tribunal achieved it, moreso with Vivec than any of the three.

DA seems to be nearly bereft of apotheosis, the closest being dwarven Paragons. It's an unusually mundane world.

Arguably Flemeth could also be an example of apotheosis.  Or the god-child, if you went through with Morrigan's ritual and it worked as planned.

[AlexXIV]

[quote]SirShreK wrote...

[quote]AlexXIV wrote...

Oh and by the way SirShrek, I feel you are a bit obsessed with Arlathan being the Golden City. I have seen a couple of your posts suggesting it. The thing is though, I doubt it is the concept of Bioware's fantasy world. The dwarves have their Paragons, The elves have their creators, and the humans have their Maker. Well there are also the Qunari who have the Qun. Anyway, the Maker is if anything a human god and the elves who worship him or believe in him are just 'domesticated'. I think the Dalish are the 'true' elves who follow their true ancient paths.

[/quote]

Fine. I would then like to ask why the elves don't mention the Golden city.

[quote]

And the reason why there are no records in elven lore about a Maker is, in my opinion, that the elves didn't care. They have always been focused on their own culture and ... business, so they probably didn't care for this Maker the humans kept mentioning. And they probably didn't find it worth their time to study or record knowledge about Him.[/quote]

A society that had its own gods, spent endless time in Fade debating (on Maker knows what)  DID NOT think about creation of the world?[/quote]

Like I said, maybe the elves didn't care about humans and their culture. They were just some shortlived specied that buzzed around. It is called arrogance or ignorance if you prefer. I think the elves were like that.

We don't know the elven mythology very well. We know a couple of names and what they stand for, but we don't know the elves view on the creation of the world. Most knowledge is lost, either destroyed by Tevinters or maybe the Chantry, or in the wars or sank with Arlathan.

If we knew next to nothing about Asgard (home of the norse gods) and a couple of things of the Olymp (ancient greece gods home), would you then also conclude Asgard must be the Olymp? It is not far fetched to assume that two different cultures have two different religions. I don't see why we should for the lack of information melt them together as if it is the only logical conclusion.