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[Saibh]

The article.

Article wrote...

BioWare’s been forthcoming about the new art style for Dragon Age 2, but even that didn’t prepare us for the surprise of seeing the redesigned qunari. Unlike the strange but decidedly humanoid qunari Sten from Origins, the images of the Dragon Age 2 qunari that we saw were muscular, nearly demonic-looking creatures. The most striking difference was the addition of horns. As it turns out, Dragon Age lore has an answer for why we haven’t seen them on qunari before.

“Not all qunari have horns,” says Dragon Age lead writer David Gaider. “Some are born without them, but it has never been considered a defect. Instead the mark is considered special, indicating one who is clearly meant for a
special role in their society—as a Ben-Hassrath who enforces religious law or as an envoy to other races. It is also not uncommon for qunari who abandon their beliefs to remove their own horns, for reasons not yet clear.”

The change in qunari appearances have practical roots as well. “Art wanted to create more space between the races so we changed the way the qunari looked,” says senior artist Matt Goldman. “We have also changed the way elves and dwarves look for that matter, but qunari seem the most dramatic because you only ever saw Sten in Dragon Age: Origins.”

I hear the Kratos jokes already.

EDIT: The horns remind me of Flemeth's horns...

Also, this wallpaper has a large, behorned man in the Deep Roads along with three other people. A qunari? This one shows Flemeth's horns better.


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Before getting all up in arms, remember to read the Dev Comments

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Modifié par Saibh, 31 juillet 2010 - 06:12 .

[Mary Kirby]

aragfore03 wrote...

A Qunari discussion and no Mary.... doesn't seem right!

I like the new design, personally. Although I do wonder if there's a specific guy in the antaam whose job it is to stencil designs on the other guys' chests. I imagine it must be an honored role. Like the guy who always has to dig the latrine.

[David Gaider]

Saibh wrote...
Especially because I'm not even sure how you make adjustments to the elves. The only thing different about them in DAO is their size and structure. Exactly what can you add? Night Elf ears (*shudder*)? The dwarves sometimes don't have beards, and the wimmins are pretty good looking. Do they now have beards too?

I'm at a loss at what a "redesign" could mean.

As Matt said in the article, the point is to create some visual distance between the races-- so they present a different silhouette, whereas before the elves could pretty much be summed as as "humans with pointy ears" and the dwarves as "short humans". Like he also said in the article, however, the difference in the look of the elves and dwarves is not as dramatic as the qunari. You've seen one dwarf already (Varric, and he's not atypical-- excepting the fact that he doesn't have a beard, but that's just his personal style) and presumably you'll see elves before long. They're not sporting antennae or three heads or anything.

[David Gaider]

mione wrote...
but if in future games Sten comes waltzing in looking like that then I totally want an option saying "Dude, What happened?!" complete with freaked out expression on the warden.

Sten is a hornless qunari. If you see him again, suddenly with horns-- yes, that would be weird.

It would, however, lead to some excellent innuendo. :innocent:

[David Gaider]

mdfitz2 wrote...
thats just body paint right they are still the same color as sten right

You do know that humans come in different colors, right?

[David Gaider]

mione wrote...
Mr.Gaider I was wondering if it's not too soon or too much of an spoiler could you please explain the difference between an horned and unhorned Qunari? is it something akin to genitics like maybe different races of qunari like the difference between an Caucasian person and an Asian person?

It may be genetic-- I'm hesitant to get into a discussion of genetics in fantasy races, but certainly the Talmassrans selectively breed qunari and from the nature of qunari society it might not be too far a stretch to suppose that they breed them to suit their roles more closely.

Hornless qunari are not rare freaks of nature-- simply uncommon. Most of the Ben-Hassrath are hornless, for instance, and thus your average qunari might be forgiven for thinking that a lack of horns is very intimidating.

[David Gaider]

Funny_chan wrote...
Could the hornless qunari be the product of the traditional (horned) qunari + human mix?

That would presuppose the notion that qunari and humans could interbreed... and/or the possibility that qunari had encountered humans prior to coming to Thedas, wouldn't it? Anything is possible.

[David Gaider]

the_one_54321 wrote...
They don't need to evolve. Nothing is wrong with them. If you want something different. Think up new ideas instead of bastardizing ideas that were never yours.

Then who's are they, exactly?

Like it or not, they're part of the fantasy milieu. We're using them and we're going to put our own spin on them, and continue to evolve them in Dragon Age as we see fit.

[Mary Kirby]

Capt. Obvious wrote...

Why is this turnin into a Lord of the Rings discussion?

You know how any album left in a car for more than two weeks turns into a Best of Queen album? Any thread on a Dragon Age forum, if left to itself long enough, becomes a Lord of the Rings discussion.

[Mary Kirby]

tmp7704 wrote...

I thought any Dragon Age thread turns into discussion about Loghain, given enough time...

If you turn right at Loghain, go through Alistair, and keep driving past Denerim, you'll wind up at elves and dwarves, and from there we go straight to Tolkien. You can't miss it.

[John Epler]

Mary Kirby wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

I thought any Dragon Age thread turns into discussion about Loghain, given enough time...

If you turn right at Loghain, go through Alistair, and keep driving past Denerim, you'll wind up at elves and dwarves, and from there we go straight to Tolkien. You can't miss it.

Unless, of course, you take the 541 exit to Song of Ice and Fire. But that leads to the same place, just via the scenic route.

[John Epler]

the_one_54321 wrote...

twincast wrote...
My main point stands, which is who are you to tell others what they can use just because you thought Tolkien's races perfect? He was the first to have a modern fantasy story published, so from now on no one dare adept Germanic mythology anymore?
I'm sure we can all agree on them being overused, but different takes on the same tropes are surely more enjoyable than reading the same take over and over again or cutting off anything looking or sounding like elf or dwarf from the public domain for all eternity just because you (or anyone) don't happen to like them.

You simultaneously make a point and missunderstand.
For one, it's not who I am, it's who the original writer is. Tolkien wrote it first. Some minor and/or ineresting adaptions have come from people using his writings, but as you said, we can all agree that it's been overused.
On the flip side, when I see an author actually addapt the old European myths into new stories I'll let you know. Because no one has done that since Tolkier that I am aware of.

But given that Tolkien himself claimed Norse and other mythologies as his primary inspiration, while claiming that he was attempting to establish a mythology for the English, wouldn't you think he'd prefer people take what he's done and evolve it in their own direction? Earlier, you were arguing that we should have kept the Elves and Dwarves exactly as Tolkien established them - but that seems to run contrary to what Tolkien himself did. While it's obviously impossible to say for certain (being as how no one can speak with Tolkien on this matter), I would imagine that he'd be quite pleased to see people using his creations as the basis for a sort of 'modern mythology' by bringing their own elements to the mix, rather than simply copying his.

Perhaps I'm merely misunderstanding your point.

[John Epler]

SirShreK wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Boy I love retcons! This is up there with the ol' "Oh its not ammo in ME2, its just Geth heatsinks!"  :sick:

They did mention horns in the codex though. If we were to remove what I can only assume to be war-paint they should look pretty similar (except for the horns). They at least have the scowl.

Yes. An advanced civilization with Cannons does indeed need warpaint? How else will they tell their enemies they intend to be serious? Practicality be damned.

I would argue that warpaint as a method to intimidate one's enemies is a function of culture rather than anything to do with technology. One can be technologically advanced and still have aspects of culture that make warpaint an important tradition.

I mean, let's be honest - a hundred and fifty years ago we were all fighting wars in bright blue and red uniforms. I don't see warpaint as being significantly less practical or logical.

[John Epler]

Kordaris wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

I would argue that warpaint as a method to intimidate one's enemies is a function of culture rather than anything to do with technology. One can be technologically advanced and still have aspects of culture that make warpaint an important tradition.

I mean, let's be honest - a hundred and fifty years ago we were all fighting wars in bright blue and red uniforms. I don't see warpaint as being significantly less practical or logical.

If that would be the case, there would be no uniforms but warpaint. Blood, sweat, water, rain all of this can wash it away and it impractical to apply it every time you go to combat. Thus less developed technologicaly societies use warpaint, the ones with ability to produce textile products will use uniforms.
It's rather obvious.

I would suggest that we can't conclusively state that the plants used to produce Qunari dye are going to be water soluble.

Not to mention, to a society like that of the Qunari, I imagine the psychological effect of a large, painted and  half-naked Qunari running at you as compared to that of one running at you while wearing a uniform would not be disregarded.

[John Epler]

Kordaris wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...
Not to mention, to a society like that of the Qunari, I imagine the psychological effect of a large, painted and  half-naked Qunari running at you as compared to that of one running at you while wearing a uniform would not be disregarded.

I got the impression that Qunari were organised, methodical society that fought in planned way. Are you changing them into berserkers?

I'm not doing anything - I just do cinematics, I'm just conjecturing

And this is why one has to be very, very careful what gets posted on the forums...

[John Epler]

filaminstrel wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Kordaris wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...
Not to mention, to a society like that of the Qunari, I imagine the psychological effect of a large, painted and  half-naked Qunari running at you as compared to that of one running at you while wearing a uniform would not be disregarded.

I got the impression that Qunari were organised, methodical society that fought in planned way. Are you changing them into berserkers?

I'm not doing anything - I just do cinematics, I'm just conjecturing

And this is why one has to be very, very careful what gets posted on the forums...

Confirmed: cinematics featuring large, painted and half-naked Qunari running at you. Thanks John!

Because of this, I plan to act randomly for the rest of development.

I will be unpredictable, like a mongoose.

[Mary Kirby]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Yes, but from steel armor to warpaint? Crossbows and cannons don't seem to have made armor obsolete yet in Thedas.

Not to interrupt a fascinating debate, but you guys realize that the "Qunari swordsman" in that render doesn't have a sword either, right?  Like maybe that's just a render of the creature without any gear on to show the physical differences? And Qunari do not, in fact, fight naked and unarmed?

[Mary Kirby]

Khayness wrote...

They don't have Poisonous Spiders?

Not yet. Once they convert Poison Spider to the Qun, though... watch out!

[Mary Kirby]

Bryy_Miller wrote...
Oh, we were just finishing up the "What's Better? Dragon Age or DC Comics" thing anyway. 

This question is near the top of my list. Right after, "Who would win in a fight between The Tick and the Yellowstone Caldera?"

[David Gaider]

For those who are concerned:

Yes, on one level the qunari look different-- just as the darkspawn look different, or the elves and dwarves look different or any other model in the game will look different. The artistic style has changed, and that will affect everything you see to one degree or another. If you met Sten now he would no doubt look different.

Would he have horns? No, he would not. We are telling you that not all qunari have horns. Is that different than what you saw before? Yes it is. We never said then that qunari could have horns, but neither did we say they couldn't. In this case both appearances are possible.

If someone wishes to say that a change in the artistic style is a ret-con, then by all means do so. We aren't saying that all qunari have horns and the ones you saw were a figment of your imagination, but we certainly could have if we'd wanted to. Is that a big deal? I don't know-- was it a big deal when Klingons in Star Trek started having carapaces on their foreheads? Maybe to some, but speaking personally I always wanted qunari to look more strikingly different-- and I really like their new look.

Maybe some people thought whatever we had before was good enough, and if people mistook qunari for large humans then that was their problem? Fair enough, but this is where we wanted to go with it. Like it or not, the look of the game is changing. We look on this as a positive development.

[David Gaider]

Kordaris wrote...
We get I assure you. But one thing is missing. Explanation WHY has it changed has not been provided.

Because we think this looks better? I assume you'll just disregard any answer that doesn't register on your Conspiracy Theory Barometer, however, so perhaps I needn't bother?

There is no need to state the obvious really, I thirst for knowledge why was it determined that proved success like the world of Dragon Age 1 needed such radical shift.

There is a fine line between "proven success" and "resting on one's laurels", and quite frankly just because a game is successful doesn't mean that everything about it was automatically good-- any more than an unsuccessful game means everything about it is bad. If you prefer to play Origins and only Origins, the good news is you still can! The game's right there. Have fun!

[David Gaider]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Will the Qunari, with their new look, remain bronze skinned? Or will some have different skin color in the same manner in which some have horns and not others?

Qunari have different skin tones, just as humans do. Many are bronze, while others are not.

Furthermore, I assume that the Qunari horns were added so that Ogres = corrupted Qunari

No, sorry. Other way around.

But if I understand correctly, thsoe who do have horns are rare, or not as common place as those without. So how come all Ogres have horns?

Those without horns are uncommon-- the horned qunari are more common. As for ogres, how do you know they all have horns? Even if they do, you'll note that darkspawn are not carbon copies of the races their brood mothers are created from.

Modifié par David Gaider, 30 juillet 2010 - 12:02 .

[David Gaider]

Kordaris wrote...
Most of us  expected a game set in the same world, with similiar game system and traits that made the game succesfull, with consequences of their choices being resolved or continued  so that plot lines can be finished. If you instead offer another world, with completely different game options and mostly unrelated to Dragon Age 1, then why call it Dragon Age 2 and not a separate other game or at least spin-off?

Because this is Dragon Age to us, and still encompasses the things that we consider important about the original. If you disagree, that's fine. It doesn't make what we're doing accidental.

[David Gaider]

tez19 wrote...
mr. gaider if you please could clear up the following quote as i think it is an interesting point somebody made.
thanks in advance.

It's an interesting question. Where could they have gotten the qunari from, if there were no qunari in Thedas at the time?

Hmmm...

Modifié par David Gaider, 30 juillet 2010 - 12:49 .

[David Gaider]

Kordaris wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

It's an interesting question. Where could they have gotten the qunari from, if there were no qunari in Thedas at the time..

In your statemant you implied that qunari came from another world

Err... perhaps you inferred that they came from another world. We've said that qunari arrived on the continent of Thedas from elsewhere just over three hundred years ago. Nothing more.