1593 réponses à ce sujet

[DPB]

SirShreK wrote...

dbankier wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

Its not the Qunaris : Its the Quoted statement made by David Gaider.

You seem to have taken that quote out of context. He was simply responding to the notion that DAO's elves and dwarves were too different to the ones from the Lord of the Rings.

Err... Out of conntext? Perhaps I thought the stablished context of how elves and dwarves looked was established in DA itself! Oh! Thank you! Thank you! How smart you are! You must Einstein reincarnated! When did you get you Nobel Prize in Medicine?

I don't see why the personal attacks are necessary. He was responding to these quotes:

Personally, I think they should have left elves and dwarves out of DA
entirely. They should have just come up with all their own new races.
The changes they made were something of an insult to the original source
work. Nothing was wrong with elves or dwarves to begin with. Nothing
needed to be changed about their style. If they were looking for
something original, they should have just come up with their own ideas.
The fact that they are saying they've changed them further also bothers
me a little bit.

Tolkien. Who addapted his ideas from old fairy tales and folk
legends. And the old tabletop RPGs addapted them slightly further for
game use. And in the following decades elves and dwarves have become
slightly more and more.... 4e..... WoW.... DA. It's not a good thing.
They don't need to evolve. Nothing is wrong with them. If you want
something different. Think up new ideas instead of bastardizing ideas
that were never yours.

[nightcobra]

SirShreK wrote...

Grommash94 wrote...

And even if it is warpaint, it doesn't mean that everyone uses it. Could just be specific warriors, an elite pack of some sort that goes out first to intimidate the enemies.

Frankly. I find the idea of Cannon bearing organized and Cool society with Warpains Idiotic.
Example: Naked Aliens from Planet Zinzarde.

it could be a qun'ari 's first foe's blood as a rite of passage for their youth (youth, not children).

[Grommash94]

SirShreK wrote...

Grommash94 wrote...

And even if it is warpaint, it doesn't mean that everyone uses it. Could just be specific warriors, an elite pack of some sort that goes out first to intimidate the enemies.

Frankly. I find the idea of Cannon bearing organized and Cool society with Warpains Idiotic.
Example: Naked Aliens from Planet Zinzarde.

I don't see how. Some cultures used war masks for the same purpose warpaint is used, and were really organized as well. Warpaint (if it is that)=/=barbaric culture or some such.

Modifié par Grommash94, 29 juillet 2010 - 07:53 .

[L33TDAWG]

I hope we see a sten-like quinari with one of these new things

[Grommash94]

SirShreK wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

SirShreK wrote...
I will be honest because I don't want to be sarcastic.

I felt that for the first time in an Eon after the Great Tolkien someone was taking a serious effort to design a Universe and a continuity where Ret-conning was considered a taboo and imagination stretching a crime. You have to understand that how much of a relief I felt when I saw something so Amazing and New and Original that actually was based on brilliant efforts and intelligence and did not resort to Deus Ex Machinas every time the Authors realised they wanted to advance a story. But now I see that DA-U is equally susceptible to all the foils of, lets say, DC universe. And frankly I am NOT interested in another DC universe. One is Bad enough.

I really don't think more than one type of Qunari can be compared to 374 "final" crisisessies or blackest nights or any of the other things that DC does to prevent me from reading their comics or cause me to lose my grip on reality and consider "Xorn was actually magneto... wait no xorn was actually xorn pretending to be magneto... no wait he was the real xorn's evil twin brother pretending to be xorn pretending to be magneto!" sane by comparison... (my marvel fanboyness is showing isn't it?)
Comic retcons are 99.9% the result of writers trying to undo things other writers had done. Gaider himself is still the one building DA's lore and he has clearly stated that this isn't how all Qunari look it's just how some Qunari look. Their absence in Origins doesn't mean they can't exist, it just means they were absent for some reason (probably character model limitations)

Do you think that DC was born with the Ret-con taint? Or Marvel was? 'Tis an infectious disease mon amie. Once you taste is its power you are compelled to  repeat it forever.....

Today its Quanri. Tomorrow its the Spirits/Demons. Somedays later, Elves magically become Immortal again.

Personally, I think we should have more faith in the DA writing team, and have faith that they will not trash their I.P which they worked so hard on.

[Bryy_Miller]

SirShreK wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

SirShreK wrote...
I will be honest because I don't want to be sarcastic.

I felt that for the first time in an Eon after the Great Tolkien someone was taking a serious effort to design a Universe and a continuity where Ret-conning was considered a taboo and imagination stretching a crime. You have to understand that how much of a relief I felt when I saw something so Amazing and New and Original that actually was based on brilliant efforts and intelligence and did not resort to Deus Ex Machinas every time the Authors realised they wanted to advance a story. But now I see that DA-U is equally susceptible to all the foils of, lets say, DC universe. And frankly I am NOT interested in another DC universe. One is Bad enough.

I really don't think more than one type of Qunari can be compared to 374 "final" crisisessies or blackest nights or any of the other things that DC does to prevent me from reading their comics or cause me to lose my grip on reality and consider "Xorn was actually magneto... wait no xorn was actually xorn pretending to be magneto... no wait he was the real xorn's evil twin brother pretending to be xorn pretending to be magneto!" sane by comparison... (my marvel fanboyness is showing isn't it?)
Comic retcons are 99.9% the result of writers trying to undo things other writers had done. Gaider himself is still the one building DA's lore and he has clearly stated that this isn't how all Qunari look it's just how some Qunari look. Their absence in Origins doesn't mean they can't exist, it just means they were absent for some reason (probably character model limitations)

Do you think that DC was born with the Ret-con taint? Or Marvel was? 'Tis an infectious disease mon amie. Once you taste its its power you are compelled to  repeat it forever.....

Today its Quanri. Tomorrow its the Spirits/Demons. Somedays later, Elves magically become Immortal again.

How are the Qunari retconned? Seriously? You go around telling people that they don't understand crap that you obviously don't. A reveal is not a retcon. 

[Jimmy Fury]

SirShreK wrote...

dbankier wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

Its not the Qunaris : Its the Quoted statement made by David Gaider.

You seem to have taken that quote out of context. He was simply responding to the notion that DAO's elves and dwarves were too different to the ones from the Lord of the Rings.

Err... Out of context? Perhaps I thought the stablished context of how elves and dwarves looked was established in DA itself! Oh! Thank you! Thank you! How smart you are! You must Einstein reincarnated! When did you get you Nobel Prize in Medicine?

Actually I do believe you took the quote out of context...
Gaider was responding to the_one's accusation that DA should not even have elves or dwarves because any change from the Tolkein definition is a bastadization of the archetype and is bad.
At no point did he say Elves and Dwarves in the DA universe weren't established in Origins...

[Herr Uhl]

filaminstrel wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...
Not to mention, to a society like that of the Qunari, I imagine the psychological effect of a large, painted and  half-naked Qunari running at you as compared to that of one running at you while wearing a uniform would not be disregarded.

There still are Qunari in armor though, right?

Only the tal-Vashot. They gave up the warpaint with the Horns.

Well, I don't get how Genitive could have gotten it so wrong in that case. 

Excerpt from the tome of knowledge.
"Almost before the rest of Thedas had heard of the qunari’s appearance in Par Vollen they were invading the mainland, striking first into Rivain and Seheron. The defenders of those lands were hardly a match for qunari discipline and technology. One shot of the mighty cannons, the likes of which our ancestors of the time had never seen before, brought troops to their knees. Qunari warriors in glittering steel armor carved through the defenders with ease. History calls this the First Qunari War, but it was mostly a one-sided bloodbath, with the qunari advancing far into Tevinter within ten years."

Keep in mind that the first encounter with the Qunari was in 6:30 (Steel Age), whereas DAO takes place in 9:30... so that's 300 years over which things could have changed fairly significantly.

Yes, but from steel armor to warpaint? Crossbows and cannons don't seem to have made armor obsolete yet in Thedas.

[Arttis]

I think shrek figured out that the answers he really wants will never come...and he it bitter.FOr it is a fantasy where rules can be broken and anything can happen...which leaves him with no single answer...to the questions he really wants to know the answers to.

Just guessing here.

[Grommash94]

filaminstrel wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...
Not to mention, to a society like that of the Qunari, I imagine the psychological effect of a large, painted and  half-naked Qunari running at you as compared to that of one running at you while wearing a uniform would not be disregarded.

There still are Qunari in armor though, right?

Only the tal-Vashot. They gave up the warpaint with the Horns.

Well, I don't get how Genitive could have gotten it so wrong in that case. 

Excerpt from the tome of knowledge.
"Almost before the rest of Thedas had heard of the qunari’s appearance in Par Vollen they were invading the mainland, striking first into Rivain and Seheron. The defenders of those lands were hardly a match for qunari discipline and technology. One shot of the mighty cannons, the likes of which our ancestors of the time had never seen before, brought troops to their knees. Qunari warriors in glittering steel armor carved through the defenders with ease. History calls this the First Qunari War, but it was mostly a one-sided bloodbath, with the qunari advancing far into Tevinter within ten years."

Keep in mind that the first encounter with the Qunari was in 6:30 (Steel Age), whereas DAO takes place in 9:30... so that's 300 years over which things could have changed fairly significantly.

I don't see why there still wouldn't be Qunari with armor though. These are the guys that are in an endless war with Tevinter; I can't see them all going out to battle with no armor, cannons or no.

[tmp7704]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

Frankly. I find the idea of Cannon bearing organized and Cool society with Warpains Idiotic.
Example: Naked Aliens from Planet Zinzarde.

it could be a qun'ari 's first foe's blood as a rite of passage for their youth (youth, not children).

They could even be just into paintings in general. There was some codex explanation why Sten was so fascinated with them. Maybe it's more than personal trait.

[SoR82]

filaminstrel wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...
Not to mention, to a society like that of the Qunari, I imagine the psychological effect of a large, painted and  half-naked Qunari running at you as compared to that of one running at you while wearing a uniform would not be disregarded.

There still are Qunari in armor though, right?

Only the tal-Vashot. They gave up the warpaint with the Horns.

Well, I don't get how Genitive could have gotten it so wrong in that case. 

Excerpt from the tome of knowledge.
"Almost before the rest of Thedas had heard of the qunari’s appearance in Par Vollen they were invading the mainland, striking first into Rivain and Seheron. The defenders of those lands were hardly a match for qunari discipline and technology. One shot of the mighty cannons, the likes of which our ancestors of the time had never seen before, brought troops to their knees. Qunari warriors in glittering steel armor carved through the defenders with ease. History calls this the First Qunari War, but it was mostly a one-sided bloodbath, with the qunari advancing far into Tevinter within ten years."

Keep in mind that the first encounter with the Qunari was in 6:30 (Steel Age), whereas DAO takes place in 9:30... so that's 300 years over which things could have changed fairly significantly.

They went backwards then?

[Grommash94]

SoR82 wrote...

filaminstrel wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...
Not to mention, to a society like that of the Qunari, I imagine the psychological effect of a large, painted and  half-naked Qunari running at you as compared to that of one running at you while wearing a uniform would not be disregarded.

There still are Qunari in armor though, right?

Only the tal-Vashot. They gave up the warpaint with the Horns.

Well, I don't get how Genitive could have gotten it so wrong in that case. 

Excerpt from the tome of knowledge.
"Almost before the rest of Thedas had heard of the qunari’s appearance in Par Vollen they were invading the mainland, striking first into Rivain and Seheron. The defenders of those lands were hardly a match for qunari discipline and technology. One shot of the mighty cannons, the likes of which our ancestors of the time had never seen before, brought troops to their knees. Qunari warriors in glittering steel armor carved through the defenders with ease. History calls this the First Qunari War, but it was mostly a one-sided bloodbath, with the qunari advancing far into Tevinter within ten years."

Keep in mind that the first encounter with the Qunari was in 6:30 (Steel Age), whereas DAO takes place in 9:30... so that's 300 years over which things could have changed fairly significantly.

They went backwards then?

We have no evidence that all of these 'new' Qunari are going to be roaming around with no armor.

[Bryy_Miller]

SirShreK wrote...

I know what he was responding to. I am rather concerned about his/their understanding of his/their own power. With DA2 they seem to have realized that they can change the setting in ANY way that they can and there is di*k that we can do about it. The classical reply would be, "There goes ."

I need the Picard facepalm image, STAT!

Assuming that the writers of the video game franchise:
1) don't understand writing
2) don't understand their own lore

Is very insulting, pretentious, and condescending.

[Grommash94]

SirShreK wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

SirShreK wrote...
I will be honest because I don't want to be sarcastic.

I felt that for the first time in an Eon after the Great Tolkien someone was taking a serious effort to design a Universe and a continuity where Ret-conning was considered a taboo and imagination stretching a crime. You have to understand that how much of a relief I felt when I saw something so Amazing and New and Original that actually was based on brilliant efforts and intelligence and did not resort to Deus Ex Machinas every time the Authors realised they wanted to advance a story. But now I see that DA-U is equally susceptible to all the foils of, lets say, DC universe. And frankly I am NOT interested in another DC universe. One is Bad enough.

I really don't think more than one type of Qunari can be compared to 374 "final" crisisessies or blackest nights or any of the other things that DC does to prevent me from reading their comics or cause me to lose my grip on reality and consider "Xorn was actually magneto... wait no xorn was actually xorn pretending to be magneto... no wait he was the real xorn's evil twin brother pretending to be xorn pretending to be magneto!" sane by comparison... (my marvel fanboyness is showing isn't it?)
Comic retcons are 99.9% the result of writers trying to undo things other writers had done. Gaider himself is still the one building DA's lore and he has clearly stated that this isn't how all Qunari look it's just how some Qunari look. Their absence in Origins doesn't mean they can't exist, it just means they were absent for some reason (probably character model limitations)

Do you think that DC was born with the Ret-con taint? Or Marvel was? 'Tis an infectious disease mon amie. Once you taste its its power you are compelled to  repeat it forever.....

Today its Quanri. Tomorrow its the Spirits/Demons. Somedays later, Elves magically become Immortal again.

How are the Qunari retconned? Seriously? You go around telling people that they don't understand crap that you obviously don't. A reveal is not a retcon. 

Yes. You are right. Tomorrow somebody will reveal that Hawke is Flemeth's son daughter and of course, since you are right, that is not a ret-con.

To be fair, although I seriously doubt BioWare would ever pull something like that, we know very, very little about Flemeth. Who knows what she has been up to.

[term8]

SoR82 wrote...

Keep in mind that the first encounter with the Qunari was in 6:30 (Steel Age), whereas DAO takes place in 9:30... so that's 300 years over which things could have changed fairly significantly.

They went backwards then?

Yes they realized the damage the mass production of heavy armours and cannons were doing to the environment.. so they opted for more eco-friendly fighting garb

Modifié par term8, 29 juillet 2010 - 08:05 .

[Jimmy Fury]

SirShreK wrote...
Do you think that DC was born with the Ret-con taint? Or Marvel was? 'Tis an infectious disease mon amie. Once you taste its its power you are compelled to  repeat it forever.....

Today its Quanri. Tomorrow its the Spirits/Demons. Somedays later, Elves magically become Immortal again.

The evolution of a story by a single writer isn't retconning. If the elves become immortal again, then it is not a retcon it is story progression. If suddenly the elves were always immortal then yes, that's a retcon.
Retconning is taking an established past event and changing it to be something else.  Technically speaking even the horrific final crisis and blackest night fiascoes aren't retcons because they weren't changing past events they were reworking current events. The Xorn-MAgneto thing, that was a retcon. The entire Emma Frost limited series that threw out her established (and frankly much more awesome) history was a retcon. Bringin Jason Todd back from the dead was a retcon, changing who killed batman's parents was a retcon.
Adding to the physical attributes of the Qunari as an entire species or adjusting the character models for Elves and Dwarves to make them look less deformed isn't retconning.

(never ever argue with marvel fanboys about retconning. we are, sadly, experts on the subject )