1593 réponses à ce sujet

[Saibh]

JoePinasi1989 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

[..]If someone wishes to say that a change in the artistic style is a ret-con, then by all means do so. We aren't saying that all qunari have horns and the ones you saw were a figment of your imagination, but we certainly could have if we'd wanted to. Is that a big deal? I don't know-- was it a big deal when Klingons in Star Trek started having carapaces on their foreheads? Maybe to some, but speaking personally I always wanted qunari to look more strikingly different-- and I really like their new look.[..]

Actually the difference between the original klingons of Star Trek TOS and those of TNG was explained 20 years later in a season four episode of Enterprise, "Affliction". EDIT Actually there were two episodes linked. I really like those new story arcs. Too bad it came too late.

I'm not suggesting that we're gonna wait 20 years for retcons but... who knows?

Actually, that's the definition of retcon, when something you know to be true or assume to be true is changed story-wise. Superboy punching reality is a retcon. Generally the things that get retconned are things that are more "fanon" than canon. It's like...when a writer changes his mind. It doesn't conflict with canon, but it wasn't there before. Sometimes crazy convoluted schemes must be devised

It's Xorn's possessed twin brother pretending to be Magneto pretending to be Xorn! That's how ole Bucket Head survived! Does it hurt your brain? Yes. Does it conflict with what everyone assumed to be true? Yes. Does it conflict with the plot set in place? No.

Technically, this is a retcon. But the word isn't bad. It can be handled very well. It can be handled poorly and have desirable results. It can be handled poorly and have undesirable results. Retcons don't always fall out of nowhere. Sometimes they piece together loopholes, or plot holes--like the ogre's horns, in this instance. Sometimes, they make absolute sense. Now you know.

Modifié par Saibh, 30 juillet 2010 - 04:25 .

[Jimmy Fury]

Saibh wrote...
It's Xorn's possessed twin brother pretending to be Magneto pretending to be Xorn! That's how ole Bucket Head survived! Does it hurt your brain? Yes. Does it conflict with what everyone assumed to be true? Yes. Does it conflict with the plot set in place? No.

Technically, this is a retcon. But the word isn't bad. It can be handled very well. It can be handled poorly and have desirable results. It can be handled poorly and have undesirable results. Retcons don't always fall out of nowhere. Sometimes they piece together loopholes, or plot holes--like the ogre's horns, in this instance. Sometimes, they make absolute sense. Now you know.

I have to humbly disagree on those two counts.
The Xorn thing did conflict with the plot set in place. It conflicted a lot.
I would go into detail but I just tried to do so as briefly as possible and ended up writing for 15 solid minutes... and I type very fast (you can pm me though if you really want to hear it all lol) So i'll boil it down to- a non telepath is supposed to have tricked the 9 most powerful telepaths on the planet... no. There is no way to explain that without completely changing the plot set in place. And of course there's Morrison himself who got p*ssed at Marvel because he still maintains that it was actually Magneto...

The new Qunari however, isn't a retcon. It's an alteration. Nothing was ever established that said all Qunari look like Sten or that no Qunari had horns, they've simply added more variety to the species.
Definitively retconning require a retroactive change to continuity. New Qunari do not change old Qunari or anything else established.

[joriandrake]

This is like the stuff about the new klingons back then, and I have to say I like this change just as the look of the new klingons, qunari now have visible traits that reappear in trolls, but I have to say I fear what the changes with dwarves and elves may be ...

[Saibh]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Saibh wrote...
It's Xorn's possessed twin brother pretending to be Magneto pretending to be Xorn! That's how ole Bucket Head survived! Does it hurt your brain? Yes. Does it conflict with what everyone assumed to be true? Yes. Does it conflict with the plot set in place? No.

Technically, this is a retcon. But the word isn't bad. It can be handled very well. It can be handled poorly and have desirable results. It can be handled poorly and have undesirable results. Retcons don't always fall out of nowhere. Sometimes they piece together loopholes, or plot holes--like the ogre's horns, in this instance. Sometimes, they make absolute sense. Now you know.

I have to humbly disagree on those two counts.
The Xorn thing did conflict with the plot set in place. It conflicted a lot.
I would go into detail but I just tried to do so as briefly as possible and ended up writing for 15 solid minutes... and I type very fast (you can pm me though if you really want to hear it all lol) So i'll boil it down to- a non telepath is supposed to have tricked the 9 most powerful telepaths on the planet... no. There is no way to explain that without completely changing the plot set in place. And of course there's Morrison himself who got p*ssed at Marvel because he still maintains that it was actually Magneto...

The new Qunari however, isn't a retcon. It's an alteration. Nothing was ever established that said all Qunari look like Sten or that no Qunari had horns, they've simply added more variety to the species.
Definitively retconning require a retroactive change to continuity. New Qunari do not change old Qunari or anything else established.

My memory is very, very shaky when it comes to that whole...

mess....

Best forgotten, and I tried to forget it. Now I'm embarrassed I used a bad excuse, but the definition still stands. In the comics community (where the term originates from), retcon can conflict fanon. Like I said, it might not ever conflict canon or what's set in place or what you know to be true, but retcon still can mean what you believe to be true, or what's implied to be true. This is a retcon in another sense of the word.

Okay. Like. The Phoenix thing. With it being some sort of celestial being, and not Jean Grey's manifestation of self. Did it actually (at the time) conflict with anything?

ONE MORE DAY. Giant, offensive retcon. It was stupid, but it couldn't be contradicted.

Wolverine's claws. A part of his gloves. Wait, wait, now they're a part of his body, put in there by experiments! We never saw that they weren't in his body, but it was accepted that they weren't. And then...they're actually bone claws! Uh...covered...with adamantium! Sure!

Leia remembering her "mom", even though she was, like, an infant when she died, as we find out in the first trilogy. I guess you could handwave it away by saying The Force Did It, but does it really make any sense? No. Does it conflict with anything? No, I suppose not. Damn Force.

And, at the question above...it was directed at no one. Why must there be sides? I'm just pointing out a fact.

[joriandrake]

ashez2ashes wrote...

BlackyBlack wrote...

ashez2ashes wrote...

Good grief. So they've basically said screw continuity at this point.

To be fair, they never said they DIDN'T have horns

They're changing dwarves and elves too and we saw entire communities of them... 

now those I don't want to see changed, they are good as they were,  this "let us get away as much as possible from LOTR" becomes silly

[Saibh]

joriandrake wrote...

ashez2ashes wrote...

BlackyBlack wrote...

ashez2ashes wrote...

Good grief. So they've basically said screw continuity at this point.

To be fair, they never said they DIDN'T have horns

They're changing dwarves and elves too and we saw entire communities of them... 

now those I don't want to see changed, they are good as they were,  this "let us get away as much as possible from LOTR" becomes silly

The devs have already tried mollifying us by saying that the elves aren't going to grow wings or anything...so...perhaps it's just a change in overall facial structure, or body type or something. I doubt it'll be anything horrendous.

Hopefully.

[Dave of Canada]

Saibh wrote...



The devs have already tried mollifying us by saying that the elves aren't going to grow wings or anything...

Of course not, wings are reserved for Dwarves.

[joriandrake]

Saibh wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

ashez2ashes wrote...

BlackyBlack wrote...

ashez2ashes wrote...

Good grief. So they've basically said screw continuity at this point.

To be fair, they never said they DIDN'T have horns

They're changing dwarves and elves too and we saw entire communities of them... 

now those I don't want to see changed, they are good as they were,  this "let us get away as much as possible from LOTR" becomes silly

The devs have already tried mollifying us by saying that the elves aren't going to grow wings or anything...so...perhaps it's just a change in overall facial structure, or body type or something. I doubt it'll be anything horrendous.

Hopefully.

I fear elves with faces like aliens (Gray), and dwarves whose faces are more "orcish" to make them more "compatible" with their darkspawn counterparts


EDIT: heck, and I really-really hope they don't make out of elves Night Elves

Modifié par joriandrake, 30 juillet 2010 - 05:27 .

[Dave of Canada]

joriandrake wrote...

I fear elves with faces like aliens (Gray), and dwarves whose faces are more "orcish" to make them more "compatible" with their darkspawn counterparts

We come in peace.

EDIT: heck, and I really-really hope they don't make out of elves Night Elves

They'll dance on mailboxes?

[langelog]

Dave of Canada wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

I fear elves with faces like aliens (Gray), and dwarves whose faces are more "orcish" to make them more "compatible" with their darkspawn counterparts

We come in peace.

EDIT: heck, and I really-really hope they don't make out of elves Night Elves

They'll dance on mailboxes?

I cannot possibly imagine that...THING with a sultry voice.

[joriandrake]

I .... Dave, you're... EVIL

[Fangirl17]

Hmm,interesting,I like it. Im kinda worried about what changes they will make to the other races.All of these changes are making meh feel wierd.Im sure I'll love DA2,Im a positive person,but I dunno. They are changing a lot of things that made DA,DA. As a fan that mostly loved DA for the way it is all of these changes are...unsettling,but Im sure it'll be a good game ^^ Bioware wants to improve DA not make it worse.

...We can only hope.

[Dave of Canada]

langelog wrote...

I cannot possibly imagine that...THING with a sultry voice.

Charmed, I'm sure.

[joriandrake]

Fangirl17 wrote...

Hmm,interesting,I like it. Im kinda worried about what changes they will make to the other races.All of these changes are making meh feel wierd.Im sure I'll love DA2,Im a positive person,but I dunno. They are changing a lot of things that made DA,DA. As a fan that mostly loved DA for the way it is all of these changes are...unsettling,but Im sure it'll be a good game ^^ Bioware wants to improve DA not make it worse.
...We can only hope.

umm

I am sure SOE also wanted to make SWG better and not worse

[Fangirl17]

joriandrake wrote...

Fangirl17 wrote...

Hmm,interesting,I like it. Im kinda worried about what changes they will make to the other races.All of these changes are making meh feel wierd.Im sure I'll love DA2,Im a positive person,but I dunno. They are changing a lot of things that made DA,DA. As a fan that mostly loved DA for the way it is all of these changes are...unsettling,but Im sure it'll be a good game ^^ Bioware wants to improve DA not make it worse.
...We can only hope.

umm

I am sure SOE also wanted to make SWG better and not worse

Thats why I added "we can only hope" :3

[Dave of Canada]

joriandrake wrote...
I am sure SOE also wanted to make SWG better and not worse

Jedi, jedi for everybody!

[joriandrake]

Fangirl17 wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

Fangirl17 wrote...

Hmm,interesting,I like it. Im kinda worried about what changes they will make to the other races.All of these changes are making meh feel wierd.Im sure I'll love DA2,Im a positive person,but I dunno. They are changing a lot of things that made DA,DA. As a fan that mostly loved DA for the way it is all of these changes are...unsettling,but Im sure it'll be a good game ^^ Bioware wants to improve DA not make it worse.
...We can only hope.

umm

I am sure SOE also wanted to make SWG better and not worse

Thats why I added "we can only hope" :3

Hope is the last to die.

[Fangirl17]

joriandrake wrote...

Fangirl17 wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

Fangirl17 wrote...

Hmm,interesting,I like it. Im kinda worried about what changes they will make to the other races.All of these changes are making meh feel wierd.Im sure I'll love DA2,Im a positive person,but I dunno. They are changing a lot of things that made DA,DA. As a fan that mostly loved DA for the way it is all of these changes are...unsettling,but Im sure it'll be a good game ^^ Bioware wants to improve DA not make it worse.
...We can only hope.

umm

I am sure SOE also wanted to make SWG better and not worse

Thats why I added "we can only hope" :3

Hope is the last to die.

 Cheery  

Modifié par Fangirl17, 30 juillet 2010 - 05:47 .

[Dave of Canada]

joriandrake wrote...

Hope is the last to die.

Thanks for spoiling Final Fantasy 13 for me.

[joriandrake]

Dave of Canada wrote...

joriandrake wrote...
I am sure SOE also wanted to make SWG better and not worse

Jedi, jedi for everybody!

to tell the truth if that would have been included correctly it wouldn't had been a problem, but all the changes to costumizations in the game, and the killing of the more flexible class/skill variants was the deathblow, I myself bought SWG before the changes and was on my way to have a sexy dancer/spy twi'lek and was looking forward to  being able to be in the far future a Jedi after it turns out that she is also Force Sensitive... but then the changes came, and a dancer/artist was no longer to be anything else





Btw, people complained about ME2 but that didn't touch the setting, races were not graphicly modified, SOE killed off SWG but the changes were not visible in the graphics neither, I fear Bioware with all these racial/graphical/choice lowering changes for DA2 will make more harm than even SOE did to SWG

[marquiseondore]

Dave of Canada wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

Hope is the last to die.

Thanks for spoiling Final Fantasy 13 for me.

Uh, I believe Square Enix did that.

[Dave of Canada]

joriandrake wrote...

I fear Bioware with all these racial/graphical/choice lowering changes for DA2 will make more harm than even SOE did to SWG

Doubt it.

MMORPGs still cost a lot to run over time, a major screw up and you can't suddenly say "Well, we screwed up, Cancel the project." while Bioware's single player experiences will teach them. I'm not saying Dragon Age 2 will be a failure by any means but if theoretically DID screw up - it's a lesson they've learned and they either make a buck or lose a buck.