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Game Informer: A Look At The Qunari, Evolved


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#1426
mr_luga

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David Gaider wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...
David Gaider, your responses really do come off as uncaring towards Origins fans. Yeah, you make the games and we just play them. But we're your bosses. I don't know if you're familiar with Gene Simmons'(of KISS fame) philosophy on his career and his fans, but he calls concert-goers and album-purchasers "the bosses." He knows that the fan base dictates whether or not he gets payed. And he's been massively successful, in part, because he understands this. You may see it as your world to change as you will, but we decide if you get to change it at all. With our wallets. Something to consider at least.


Sorry, but you don't get to decide what games we make-- only what games you buy. In the larger sense, yes, if what we put out there isn't what enough people want then we'll be in trouble. But that's our gamble to make, I'm afraid.

We listen to our fans and are very interested in what they want-- but we're talking about a much larger group of people with varied interests, much larger than the people who come to these forums. In the end you'll have to decide for yourself if DA2 is what you want, but calling me an uncaring meanie just for saying this is what we're doing-- well, I don't really know what to say about that. I get that you're disappointed, but there's a level of entitlement with what you're saying that maybe you need to think about a little. If that makes me an ogre, then I guess I'm an ogre.


If you're an ogre, does that make you a qunari?

#1427
Ellestor

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As I recall, Mary Kirby is the only true qunari at BioWare.

#1428
captain.subtle

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well.... That makes David a corrupted Mary Kirby.

#1429
Il Sire

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I quite like the new look, makes the qunari a little bit more "particular", they were not much more of just "big and mean humans" to me in origins.

#1430
Dave of Canada

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Il Sire wrote...

I quite like the new look, makes the qunari a little bit more "particular", they were not much more of just "big and mean humans" to me in origins.


Agreed, nothing stood out for the Qunari except for them being tanned and eight feet tall.

#1431
tmp7704

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BrotherWarth wrote...

Casel wrote...

You can still disobey your boss for making ridiculous requests.

Those ridiculous requests being made by 99% of the "bosses".


Such as? I don't see 99% of the fan base agreeing on anything, let alone ridiculous requests. Feel free to name some of these ridiculous requests though.

That alone makes the whole demand to "listen to us, we're your bosses" badly thought out, doesn't it? How do you even imagine them "listen to the bosses" who aren't in agreement?

#1432
Bryy_Miller

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I'm facepalming that Gene Simmons ever said that.

#1433
Dave of Canada

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Bryy_Miller wrote...

I'm facepalming that Gene Simmons ever said that.


THIS IS THE
GENE SIMMONS
FAMILY JEWELS

#1434
BartusssBP

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After new qunari release i tought "WTF Qunari look like poo poo" now I think all races concept art look quite good.

#1435
thebrah

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David Gaider wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...
David Gaider, your responses really do come off as uncaring towards Origins fans. Yeah, you make the games and we just play them. But we're your bosses. I don't know if you're familiar with Gene Simmons'(of KISS fame) philosophy on his career and his fans, but he calls concert-goers and album-purchasers "the bosses." He knows that the fan base dictates whether or not he gets payed. And he's been massively successful, in part, because he understands this. You may see it as your world to change as you will, but we decide if you get to change it at all. With our wallets. Something to consider at least.


Sorry, but you don't get to decide what games we make-- only what games you buy. In the larger sense, yes, if what we put out there isn't what enough people want then we'll be in trouble. But that's our gamble to make, I'm afraid.

We listen to our fans and are very interested in what they want-- but we're talking about a much larger group of people with varied interests, much larger than the people who come to these forums. In the end you'll have to decide for yourself if DA2 is what you want, but calling me an uncaring meanie just for saying this is what we're doing-- well, I don't really know what to say about that. I get that you're disappointed, but there's a level of entitlement with what you're saying that maybe you need to think about a little. If that makes me an ogre, then I guess I'm an ogre.


do not ever listen to the internet. the internet is stupid and contradictory.

#1436
Dave of Canada

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thebrah wrote...


do not ever listen to the internet. the internet is stupid and contradictory.


But if he listens to you to not listen to the internet, he's listening to the internet and in the end not listening to you.

#1437
thebrah

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Dave of Canada wrote...

thebrah wrote...


do not ever listen to the internet. the internet is stupid and contradictory.


But if he listens to you to not listen to the internet, he's listening to the internet and in the end not listening to you.


see, i told you the internet was contradictory.

#1438
Dave of Canada

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thebrah wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

thebrah wrote...


do not ever listen to the internet. the internet is stupid and contradictory.


But if he listens to you to not listen to the internet, he's listening to the internet and in the end not listening to you.


see, i told you the internet was contradictory.


mind = blown

#1439
tmp7704

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thebrah wrote...

see, i told you the internet was contradictory.

well played, sir.

#1440
Anarya

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BrotherWarth wrote...

David Gaider, your responses really do come off as uncaring towards Origins fans. Yeah, you make the games and we just play them. But we're your bosses. I don't know if you're familiar with Gene Simmons'(of KISS fame) philosophy on his career and his fans, but he calls concert-goers and album-purchasers "the bosses." He knows that the fan base dictates whether or not he gets payed. And he's been massively successful, in part, because he understands this. You may see it as your world to change as you will, but we decide if you get to change it at all. With our wallets. Something to consider at least.


You know, just as an aside I think you're misinterpreting quotes like that and the "customer is always right" one. What that actually means is, if what you're doing isn't pleasing your customer base on the whole, you must change what you're doing, even if it bruises your ego to do so. It doesn't mean you should bow to the whims of each individual customer.

#1441
Dave of Canada

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Anarya wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

David Gaider, your responses really do come off as uncaring towards Origins fans. Yeah, you make the games and we just play them. But we're your bosses. I don't know if you're familiar with Gene Simmons'(of KISS fame) philosophy on his career and his fans, but he calls concert-goers and album-purchasers "the bosses." He knows that the fan base dictates whether or not he gets payed. And he's been massively successful, in part, because he understands this. You may see it as your world to change as you will, but we decide if you get to change it at all. With our wallets. Something to consider at least.


You know, just as an aside I think you're misinterpreting quotes like that and the "customer is always right" one. What that actually means is, if what you're doing isn't pleasing your customer base on the whole, you must change what you're doing, even if it bruises your ego to do so. It doesn't mean you should bow to the whims of each individual customer.


Boss: Remember son, the customer is always right!
Newbie: Sure thing, boss!
Boss: I'll be leaving you in charge of the store while I'm gone.
Newbie: OK-ie-DO-kie!
[Boss leaves, guy enters]
Guy: I'd like a burger.
Newbie: Anything else you'd like?
Guy: A milkshake with that, please.
Newbie: The customer is always right!
Guy: Oh really? Did you know that the burger and milkshake are free today?
Newbie: Omg rly?
Guy: Yep, and you'll give me all the money in the cash register too because it's opposite day where you give ME money!

[one hour later, the deed to the store was given to the guy along with everything inside it]

Boss: We're ruined, we're ruined! *cries*

#1442
Anarya

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Dave of Canada wrote...

Boss: Remember son, the customer is always right!
Newbie: Sure thing, boss!
Boss: I'll be leaving you in charge of the store while I'm gone.
Newbie: OK-ie-DO-kie!
[Boss leaves, guy enters]
Guy: I'd like a burger.
Newbie: Anything else you'd like?
Guy: A milkshake with that, please.
Newbie: The customer is always right!
Guy: Oh really? Did you know that the burger and milkshake are free today?
Newbie: Omg rly?
Guy: Yep, and you'll give me all the money in the cash register too because it's opposite day where you give ME money!

[one hour later, the deed to the store was given to the guy along with everything inside it]

Boss: We're ruined, we're ruined! *cries*



Boss: Remember son, the customer is always right!
Newbie: Sure thing, boss!
Boss: I'll be leaving you in charge of the store while I'm gone.
Newbie: OK-ie-DO-kie!
[Boss leaves, guy enters]
Guy: I'd like a burger, no pickles.
Newbie: Anything else you'd like?
Guy: A milkshake with that, please.
Newbie: The customer is always right!
Guy: I SAID NO PICKLES YOU INCOMPETENT MORON I DEMAND FREE FOOD FOR LIFE OR I SUE YOU FOR EVERYTHING YOU'VE GOT!!!!! I DEMAND TO SEE THE MANAGER!!
Newbie: Omg!!
Guy: THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!! 

[one hour later, the deed to the store was given to the guy along with everything inside it]

Boss: We're ruined, we're ruined! *cries*

Fixed that up a bit for you. That's how it goes down in America. Is it that bad for you guys?

#1443
Dave of Canada

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Anarya wrote...

Fixed that up a bit for you. That's how it goes down in America. Is it that bad for you guys?


I haven't seen life outside my igloo, the polar beards are getting ferocious.

#1444
Anarya

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Dave of Canada wrote...

Anarya wrote...

Fixed that up a bit for you. That's how it goes down in America. Is it that bad for you guys?


I haven't seen life outside my igloo, the polar beards are getting ferocious.


Well I'm sure you can call in the Mounties if things get real bad. Though your stores of maple syrup and poutine should let you hole up for awhile.

#1445
Dave of Canada

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Anarya wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Anarya wrote...

Fixed that up a bit for you. That's how it goes down in America. Is it that bad for you guys?


I haven't seen life outside my igloo, the polar beards are getting ferocious.


Well I'm sure you can call in the Mounties if things get real bad. Though your stores of maple syrup and poutine should let you hole up for awhile.


Don't worry, I have my hockey stick with me.

#1446
Biotic Budah

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David Gaider wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
Devs make changes all the time, and they're largely for the better, and we the fanbase largely indulge in some wankage before most of us get over it and just enjoy the game.

True, though not everyone who was a fan of DAO is going to enjoy DA2. I think that's a given-- we're making a lot of changes, and they're not going to be to everyone's liking. That's true between any sequel-- you're going to win some new fans and lose some old ones, and that's probably doubly true when you make changes to the "formula". Everyone's free to declare what they do or don't like and what they'd prefer to see (like we could stop them), but treating it like it's a broken promise is, I think, taking that a bit too far.


Mr. Gaider,

Sorry for getting up everyones ire, and I did indeed give you a cheap shot on the whole diva thing, I appologize. You are as passionate about your writing as we are about the game.

Also, I am heartened that you've taken the time to address the masses. To quote your own work, "You've got a fire I haven't seen since Maric died"

But to the point....Ok, you say that not everyone who played DAO will not like DA2 because of the changes, so my question is why mess with a good thing? You can introduce new characters and story but to change the general look and feel of the game seems to be bad business. I think the games sales, popularity and awards indicate you had a good product with DAO. Has anyone ever heard of what happened when they changed the formula in Coke? Did Heidi Montage need plastic surgery? I know, too bad you can't transplant personality in her case eh?

If you wanted to make such big changes, why not make it a spinoff game? You get a new game based on the folklore of DAO, but since it's a spinoff you don't tick anyone off with dramatic changes. Then you get to drop an actual DA2 sequel that looks like a sequel. You sorta seemed shocked at first by peoples reactions, but you're talking about folks who have invested a lot of time and money into the first game.

My real issue is that it's being called a sequel. It just doesn't seem like one. Could there have been a sequel to Jaws with no shark, Star Wars with no Jedi? Right now this thread is talking about horns on the Qunari, and that is just one of the many changes. I am truly hoping that you folks put out a demo so I can change my tone about this, but from what I have read and what I have seen so far I am a bit worried about the overall game play experience. DAO was RPG of the year in many magazines and public opinion, will this still be a true RPG? You've taken out some elements (choosing races). But, you have proven that you can provide compelling stories, which can even overcome gameplay short falls initially. I hope you're writing a heck of story for us. You had such a rich, and deep world in DAO, I am hoping it will carry over to DA2 with respect to continuity of th world you created.

Thank you again for listening to us, and thank you for payng attention to the rantings of a lunatic. I shall now step off my soap box before some one tosses a dwarf at me and knocks me off.

Modifié par Biotic Budah, 09 août 2010 - 05:17 .


#1447
Feraele

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BrotherWarth wrote...

David Gaider, your responses really do come off as uncaring towards Origins fans. Yeah, you make the games and we just play them. But we're your bosses. I don't know if you're familiar with Gene Simmons'(of KISS fame) philosophy on his career and his fans, but he calls concert-goers and album-purchasers "the bosses." He knows that the fan base dictates whether or not he gets payed. And he's been massively successful, in part, because he understands this. You may see it as your world to change as you will, but we decide if you get to change it at all. With our wallets. Something to consider at least.


I just want to state right here, that the customer is NOT always right, but we do have a right  to an opinion, and we do have the right not to like whats being changed about Dragon Age.   Other than that,  we can't do anything about it other than...not participate when the time comes.   

I guess thats my one and only choice.   

#1448
Riona45

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Biotic Budah wrote...

My real issue is that it's being called a sequel. It just doesn't seem like one. Could there have been a sequel to Jaws with no shark, Star Wars with no Jedi?


There's a bad analogy if I've ever seen one.  The devs have said more than once that the elements they consider important to the setting are still there in DA2.  And, sequels DO often feature new characters and stories.

#1449
Biotic Budah

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Feraele wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

David Gaider, your responses really do come off as uncaring towards Origins fans. Yeah, you make the games and we just play them. But we're your bosses. I don't know if you're familiar with Gene Simmons'(of KISS fame) philosophy on his career and his fans, but he calls concert-goers and album-purchasers "the bosses." He knows that the fan base dictates whether or not he gets payed. And he's been massively successful, in part, because he understands this. You may see it as your world to change as you will, but we decide if you get to change it at all. With our wallets. Something to consider at least.


I just want to state right here, that the customer is NOT always right, but we do have a right  to an opinion, and we do have the right not to like whats being changed about Dragon Age.   Other than that,  we can't do anything about it other than...not participate when the time comes.   

I guess thats my one and only choice.   


Thank you for saying in one paragraph that I haven't been able to in like 20 in this thread.

#1450
Guest_BrotherWarth_*

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David Gaider wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...
David Gaider, your responses really do come off as uncaring towards Origins fans. Yeah, you make the games and we just play them. But we're your bosses. I don't know if you're familiar with Gene Simmons'(of KISS fame) philosophy on his career and his fans, but he calls concert-goers and album-purchasers "the bosses." He knows that the fan base dictates whether or not he gets payed. And he's been massively successful, in part, because he understands this. You may see it as your world to change as you will, but we decide if you get to change it at all. With our wallets. Something to consider at least.


Sorry, but you don't get to decide what games we make-- only what games you buy. In the larger sense, yes, if what we put out there isn't what enough people want then we'll be in trouble. But that's our gamble to make, I'm afraid.

We listen to our fans and are very interested in what they want-- but we're talking about a much larger group of people with varied interests, much larger than the people who come to these forums. In the end you'll have to decide for yourself if DA2 is what you want, but calling me an uncaring meanie just for saying this is what we're doing-- well, I don't really know what to say about that. I get that you're disappointed, but there's a level of entitlement with what you're saying that maybe you need to think about a little. If that makes me an ogre, then I guess I'm an ogre.


It has nothing to do with a sense of entitlement. Maybe you need to think a little about what a loyal fan base means to a business like Bioware. I purchased Origins on all 3 platforms, Awakening on all 3 platforms, and all of the DLC made available thus far. It's not a sense of entitlement. It's a sense of attachment.

Ellestor wrote...

Ellestor Approves (+10)

Though I
may often share their concerns, I unabashedly dislike customers of any
business who feel fit to express that they are 'the bosses,' let alone
'always right.' I've never seen this from the side of the business (or,
for that matter, the artist), yet it still frustrates me immensely. No
industry or art is going to progress under that philosophy as some like
BrotherWarth see it. You're too soft, Gaider.


Supply and demand. If Bioware alienates its fanbase enough then the demand will deminish and they will no longer be able to supply. Thus the customers are the bosses. It's a pretty simple and widely accepted philosophy.

Bryy_Miller wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

But we're your bosses.


Unless you are part of EA, no, you are not.

I
don't know if you're familiar with Gene Simmons'(of KISS fame)
philosophy on his career and his fans, but he calls concert-goers and
album-purchasers "the bosses." He knows that the fan base dictates
whether or not he gets payed. And he's been massively successful, in
part, because he understands this.


No. You are
vastly misinterpreting Simmons words. I also think it is cute that you
think David Gaider would not know who KISS is. Simmons just didn't wake
up one day with a fanbase. If KISS didn't make good music, do you think
people would listen to him? Maybe his "bosses" would be a bunch of
thirteen year old pricks. Simmons get paid because people LIKE his
music. Please don't get so worked up that you think he means the fans
dictate what kind of music he makes.



I didn't  ask if he was familiar with Gene Simmons or KISS. I asked if he was familiar with Gene Simmons' philosophy. Simmons and KISS attribute their success to relentless touring and building the fan base through interaction. And the fans DO dictate the music that KISS makes. They made several albums that were rejected by their fan base and flopped because of it. And the music business is very similar to the video game indusrty in this sense. You're only as good as your last album(game). Every time KISS made an album that was rejected by the fans they moved closer to their original style.
And I'm not misinterpreting his words even a little.