18744 réponses à ce sujet

[uhdnrt]

NuclearBuddha wrote...
I feel a little arrogant saying that an outsider's opinion is more valid on such a personal subject.  All I'm arguing for is sympathy and respect for how she feels, and an attempt at understanding what Rael meant to her.

Arrogant?  Naw.  Just that we can be more objective, given the information.  Tali's to close to the situation.  Think about it.  how long has she been reading deeply into everything Rael has said to her, looking for that hidden 'I love you'?  She's too close to the situation.

Parenting is hard work.

Quoted for ****ing truth.  Parenting is hard work.  Hardest job in the world.

Modifié par uhdnrt, 30 juillet 2010 - 09:01 .

[Kalashnikov]

uhdnrt wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...
I feel a little arrogant saying that an outsider's opinion is more valid on such a personal subject.  All I'm arguing for is sympathy and respect for how she feels, and an attempt at understanding what Rael meant to her.

Arrogant?  Naw.  Just that we can be more objective, given the information.  Tali's to close to the situation.  Think about it.  how long has she been reading deeply into everything Rael has said to her, looking for that hidden 'I love you'?  She's too close to the situation.

Parenting is hard work.

Quoted for ****ing truth.  Parenting is hard work.  Hardest job in the world.

"parenting is hard work" some people cannot handle it. rael is one of those people

[Phil725]

NuclearBuddha wrote...
*snip*

You make some really good points, and I'm regretting the wording in my last post where I meant to say he failed to show his love to Tali.  It seems to come down to the personal definition of what a parent is, and what constitutes success or failure in that role.  While I wish that he would have been able to prove it to Tali (and keep her from doubting whether he ever loved her,) I don't think he's nearly as bad as a lot think.

[NuclearBuddha]

Phil725 wrote...
You make some really good points, and I'm regretting the wording in my last post where I meant to say he failed to show his love to Tali.  It seems to come down to the personal definition of what a parent is, and what constitutes success or failure in that role.  While I wish that he would have been able to prove it to Tali (and keep her from doubting whether he ever loved her,) I don't think he's nearly as bad as a lot think.

That's all I ever wanted.

[TheAmazingOne-]

Kalashnikov wrote...
yes but whats so special about 42.

In Douglas Adams' The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, 42  is the number from which all meaning ("the meaning of life, the universe, and everything") could be derived.

TALI <3

[Kalashnikov]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Phil725 wrote...
You make some really good points, and I'm regretting the wording in my last post where I meant to say he failed to show his love to Tali.  It seems to come down to the personal definition of what a parent is, and what constitutes success or failure in that role.  While I wish that he would have been able to prove it to Tali (and keep her from doubting whether he ever loved her,) I don't think he's nearly as bad as a lot think.

That's all I ever wanted.

*prepares for riptide's imminent rebuttal*<_<
i personally think that while rael's methods may have been questionable, his intentions were pure

[NuclearBuddha]

Kalashnikov wrote...
*prepares for riptide's imminent rebuttal*<_<
i personally think that while rael's methods may have been questionable, his intentions were pure

Again, the point I try to make.  His failures do not invalidate his intentions or what limited success he had.

[Skadhi1]

Phil725 wrote...

Whenever your goal is to enslave an entire race in order to rise to galactic power, I think you count as extremist

I expect that she will need to be dealt with in some way in ME3 personally.

But what is the line between sentience and just running programs?  Is a single geth thread sentient?  No?  Are two hundred?  Two thousand?

Is an ant colony sentient?  Is a single ant?

If Xen sees the Geth as being simple programs, then we each are busy enslaving lots of them on our computers right now.

[uhdnrt]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Phil725 wrote...
You make some really good points, and I'm regretting the wording in my last post where I meant to say he failed to show his love to Tali.  It seems to come down to the personal definition of what a parent is, and what constitutes success or failure in that role.  While I wish that he would have been able to prove it to Tali (and keep her from doubting whether he ever loved her,) I don't think he's nearly as bad as a lot think.

That's all I ever wanted.

We'll have to agree to disagree Buddha.  Other than his wanting to build a house on the homeworld, You could argue evertyhing else is selfish.  He wants her to succeed, hell, overachieve, because of how it reflects on him.  That it all came down to what he wanted, not what Tali wanted.

Like I've said, I pity him. That's aboot all you will get out of me. He failed to thoroughly in my opinion for anything else. The One good thing he did was have a hand in bringing Tali into being.

I can thank him for that. And only that.

[Calculatrice]

*drops in*



Topiq?

[NuclearBuddha]

uhdnrt wrote...
We'll have to agree to disagree Buddha.  Other than his wanting to build a house on the homeworld, You could argue evertyhing else is selfish.  He wants her to succeed, hell, overachieve, because of how it reflects on him.  That it all came down to what he wanted, not what Tali wanted.

Like I've said, I pity him. That's aboot all you will get out of me. He failed to thoroughly in my opinion for anything else. The One good thing he did was have a hand in bringing Tali into being.

I can thank him for that. And only that.

I don't see any proof for that speculation.

[Phil725]

Skadhi1 wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

Whenever your goal is to enslave an entire race in order to rise to galactic power, I think you count as extremist

I expect that she will need to be dealt with in some way in ME3 personally.

But what is the line between sentience and just running programs?  Is a single geth thread sentient?  No?  Are two hundred?  Two thousand?

Is an ant colony sentient?  Is a single ant?

If Xen sees the Geth as being simple programs, then we each are busy enslaving lots of them on our computers right now.

So in other words, 'what constitutes life?'  I'll pass on this impending ****storm

Its pretty clear that Xen is an extremist by her intentions of rising to galactic power, risking her entire race in the process.  Whether or not she is justified in her own mind isn't relevant really.

[Kalashnikov]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

uhdnrt wrote...
We'll have to agree to disagree Buddha.  Other than his wanting to build a house on the homeworld, You could argue evertyhing else is selfish.  He wants her to succeed, hell, overachieve, because of how it reflects on him.  That it all came down to what he wanted, not what Tali wanted.

Like I've said, I pity him. That's aboot all you will get out of me. He failed to thoroughly in my opinion for anything else. The One good thing he did was have a hand in bringing Tali into being.

I can thank him for that. And only that.

I don't see any proof for that speculation.

about to say the same thing, where does it say he did all that to polish his image?

[Someone With Mass]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Kalashnikov wrote...
*prepares for riptide's imminent rebuttal*<_<
i personally think that while rael's methods may have been questionable, his intentions were pure

Again, the point I try to make.  His failures do not invalidate his intentions or what limited success he had.

He tried to help the fleet the most and his family from time to time. Even if he could've done it in a better way, he at least tried to make the best with what he had 
Can't expect a man to be perfect.

[NuclearBuddha]

Kalashnikov wrote...
about to say the same thing, where does it say he did all that to polish his image?

If this was true he wouldn't have cared about not getting her tainted by his research.

[uhdnrt]

NuclearBuddha wrote...
I don't see any proof for that speculation.

The impression I got from her dialogue in ME1.   Fuzzy, since it has been a long while.  But that was the impression I came away with from ME1.  This was compounded by the Tali's loyalty mission in ME2.

It's a side effect of the "impossible standards" impression I get from Tali - about how far she went to try and get her father's approval. Just how my mind works I guess.

Modifié par uhdnrt, 30 juillet 2010 - 09:16 .

[NCLanceman]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Kalashnikov wrote...
*prepares for riptide's imminent rebuttal*<_<
i personally think that while rael's methods may have been questionable, his intentions were pure

Again, the point I try to make.  His failures do not invalidate his intentions or what limited success he had.

That sounds like a good enough excuse to repost this: 


From Admiralty Board, Migrant Fleet

Commander Shepard,

Tali sent her transfer request with that data she gathered, and I approved her request. She has been told to expect to still receive orders from the fleet every now and again, but she's got a blank check on exactly how long she can stay there, because if I said no to this, I'd lose what little ground I have with her. Don't tell her I said that.

Now, she hasn't said it in so many words, but I know for a fact that she thinks you're the best thing since stewed land herbivore paste #13, and if she ever said no to you, I will eat this terminal. You'd best not prove her wrong, motherf*cker. If it turns out that you aren't as tough as everyone thinks you are and my daughter come back here hurt, I will park my armored, immuno-deficient boot squarely up your ass -knife and all- along with half my goddamn fleet.

Admiral Rael'Zorah
Migrant Fleet Admiralty Board.

[TIMESTAMP 04.16.2185 00:45 - User: Adm.Gerrel vas Neema "Rael, good thing I caught this thing when it got the Admiralty Board letterhead before it hit the 'net. Stop drunk-typing. I know your girl is running off with that human again, but this is no way for an Admiral to represent himself. Straighten up. I'm sure Shepard will still get it if you're a little more subtle."]
[TIMESTAMP 04.16.2185 01:20 - User: Adm.Zorah vas Rayya "You do it. I've got other things to do."]
[TIMESTAMP 04.16.2185 01:24 - User: Adm.Gerrel vas Neema "Fine. I'm not even going to ask what's going on over there. But I hope it's worth it."]
[TIMESTAMP 04.16.2185 01:26 - User: Adm.Zorah vas Rayya "I think it will be. Someday, and someday soon. Our people, and above all my daughter will reap the benefits."]

[NuclearBuddha]

uhdnrt wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...
I don't see any proof for that speculation.

The impression I got from her dialogue in ME1.   Fuzzy, since it has been a long while.  But thatw as the impression I came away with from ME1.  This was compounded by the Tali's loyalty mission in ME2.

See, the impression I got from her "Admiral's daughter needs a good gift" convo was that this was something she was placing on herself.  She mentions that a poor stigma can result from a poor gift, but that's something that falls on her, not him.  Especially since they don't have hereditary leadership (same conversation, I think).

Can you be more specific RE: the ME2 mission?

[Calculatrice]

Someone With Mass wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Kalashnikov wrote...
*prepares for riptide's imminent rebuttal*<_<
i personally think that while rael's methods may have been questionable, his intentions were pure

Again, the point I try to make.  His failures do not invalidate his intentions or what limited success he had.

He tried to help the fleet the most and his family from time to time. Even if he could've done it in a better way, he at least tried to make the best with what he had 
Can't expect a man to be perfect.

A decent anology would be trying to cure a nasty flu strain and accidentally releasing the virus into the air, killing countless.

[Skadhi1]

Phil725 wrote...
So in other words, 'what constitutes life?'  I'll pass on this impending ****storm

Its pretty clear that Xen is an extremist by her intentions of rising to galactic power, risking her entire race in the process.  Whether or not she is justified in her own mind isn't relevant really.

Can't say I blame you - but one of these days our own society is likely to face that very question.

I don't know that Xen is risking everything by acting.  In just 100 years, the fleet fails, and the Quarians die.  She may be asking whether her people will be any stronger tomorrow than they are today, and proposes a grand gamble for the ultimate stakes. 

Is it better to go down in a quick blaze of glory, or to slowly die off one failed ship at a time?  Tough to say.

[Someone With Mass]

Calculatrice wrote...

A decent anology would be trying to cure a nasty flu strain and accidentally releasing the virus into the air, killing countless.

Not exactly, but I guess it's close enough.

[Mozer121]

http://social.biowar...172/polls/8703/



We're gaining on them! Keep it up!



Nice pic btw Rune.