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[Lividity Jones]

SpatFieya wrote...

RiptideX1090 wrote...

SpatFieya wrote...

Gentlemen! Took my leave to beat Starcraft 2, my God it's epic, like, damn. However, Mass Effect I still prefer in terms of awesomeness.

So, what be the Talithread up to, tonight?

New Reckoning Chapter is up if you missed it.

I knew I missed something. I'll check it out. 

Bring tissues.

[RiptideX1090]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Gotta throw in with Collider. I'm not willing to be a monster. I would consider wiping them out for continued belligerence, but not enslaving them. I'm better than a dirty blink.

I am utterly, vehemently, completely, and in every possible way against enslavement of any kind. The only reason I decided to rewrite the heretics was because they were willing to do the same to Legion's geth.

[nickFury]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

nickFury wrote...
Forgive my ignorance, but Chewbacca defense?

Complete nonsense.

Wow im not sure if I should laugh or cry, or both

[Azint]

Phil725 wrote...

Why wasn't peace an option?  Is the question I'm mainly interested in.  If the geth are willing to work with the quarians (which seems pretty likely,) Xen's plan is needlessly wreckless, on top of the whole morality quandry.

...Which is exactly why it's a terrible idea.

[RedTracer7]

cannedcream wrote...

Phil725 wrote...


Why wasn't peace an option?  Is the question I'm mainly interested in.  If the geth are willing to work with the quarians (which seems pretty likely,) Xen's plan is needlessly wreckless, on top of the whole morality quandry.

Because peace is for terrorists!

We don't negotiate with terrorists.

[Phil725]

PKchu wrote...
*snip*
Well, I would like for peace to be an option. I'm just suggesting if Bioware wanted to give us a choice to "make us happy" but at the same time make it difficult, they could essentially allow us to commit an atrocity and give Tali everything, or be morally clean but leaving the Quarians "homeless" or even perhaps severely wounded in a stupid unaided war without Reaper or virus tech.

There used to be a huge fad here with lose/lose choices, and I got to the point where I don't choose either side unless the situation is extremely fleshed out and believable.  I don't see a way that this is a viable choice, and its more of just a who do you like better, geth/quarians question, which doesn't really mean much.  That's my problem with the hypothetical.

If the geth were the cause of all of the problems, to the point where they were a serious threat for dealing with the reapers/galactic peace, that's one thing.  If the quarians are being unreasonable, that's completely different.

[NuclearBuddha]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...
Gotta throw in with Collider. I'm not willing to be a monster. I would consider wiping them out for continued belligerence, but not enslaving them. I'm better than a dirty blink.

I am utterly, vehemently, completely, and in every possible way against enslavement of any kind. The only reason I decided to rewrite the heretics was because they were willing to do the same to Legion's geth.

Rewriting isn't enslavement.  It's saying "time out guys.  Think over this whole Reapers thing one more time and then see what you think." 

They'll rejoin the true geth and know everything that happened.  If they make the same choice all over again, so be it.

[InHarmsWay]

Okay two points I wanted to add to the conversation:



1) Tali's Trial



Neither ULB or LLR or Rally are cop outs. The trial is about Tali's judgment. The Admirals really don't have evidence that Tali was negligent. Shipping records are not sufficient evidence. Anything could have reactivated the Geth. Even a power surge. They don't know. Even talking to the Admirals they made it clear the trial was mostly about their own politics and any part dealing with Tali was about her judgment. Even when you come back Shala asks if Shepard can "present something that would renew their faith in her judgment." The speeches were about her past judgments and how sound they were. Even going as far to say none of them would be alive without her. By pulling their backroom politics into the public, this eliminated any political gain from exiling Tali.



2) Tali as Admiral



If you romance her, I doubt she would agree to the promotion. The can't forcefully make her a military leader. I know Quarian politics and military is different, but an Admiral is the highest position in the Fleet. They would not force someone into that position and have them resent it. It would be counter-productive to their own people. Frankly the talk about her being an Admiral is probably just excitement after getting exonerated. I doubt a 24 year old would be promoted past captains who are in their 50s or 60s.

[NuclearBuddha]

Lividity Jones wrote...
Bring tissues.

Double meaning has double meaning.

[nickFury]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Gotta throw in with Collider. I'm not willing to be a monster. I would consider wiping them out for continued belligerence, but not enslaving them. I'm better than a dirty blink.

I am utterly, vehemently, completely, and in every possible way against enslavement of any kind. The only reason I decided to rewrite the heretics was because they were willing to do the same to Legion's geth.

and even then its not really the same as enslavement, from what Legion says after the rewrite the heretics go into isolation to process what they did and what the other geth believ its more like forcing them to see from the true geths perspective but not forcing them to accept it at least that was the impression I got.

Edit: Ninja'd by Buddha

Modifié par nickFury, 02 août 2010 - 04:16 .

[Azint]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Gotta throw in with Collider. I'm not willing to be a monster. I would consider wiping them out for continued belligerence, but not enslaving them. I'm better than a dirty blink.

I am utterly, vehemently, completely, and in every possible way against enslavement of any kind. The only reason I decided to rewrite the heretics was because they were willing to do the same to Legion's geth.

I would not call rewrting the geth enslavement.

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

One for an eye for an eye, eh?



Just because the enemy murders doesn't mean you should. I actually think the renegade option is the choice I'd like to adhere to in real life - it's better to let them die for their free choice as enemy combatants than control their minds against their wills.



In my "metagaming canon playthrough" I have them as brainwashed.

[cannedcream]

Lividity Jones wrote...


Bring tissues.

I'm sad because I can't get the webpage the story is on to load.

My internet hates great fan fiction.
Probably why it crapped out last night during CotEM.

[MassDestroyer]

cannedcream wrote...

PKchu wrote...
I agree, I'd throw Krogan too to their deaths. It's acceptable so anything can live.

This is more like killing or mindslaving them in an extracirccular activity, if you will.

Maybe we could make the Reapers overheat and explode by stuffing a couple dozen volus into their air ducts or something?

most likley ur best idea ever

[NuclearBuddha]

mrsph wrote...
They are just going to remake the Landsmeet word for word in Mass Effect 3 aren't they!?

I wouldn't mind this, really.

[Lividity Jones]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...
Bring tissues.

Double meaning has double meaning.

Considering the context of the chapter...

I'm going to go vomit.

[Collider]

If we could reveal the evidence, get Tali exonerated, have the Quarian Fleet shift towards peace and not fracture, and Tali being happy about it all, that would be a cop out. We have nothing near that in actuality, though.

[NCLanceman]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...
Bring tissues.

Double meaning has double meaning.

Oh, I picked a fun note to arrive on. Evenin' all!

[Azint]

PKchu wrote...

One for an eye for an eye, eh?

I just came in here and I already know exactly who gave you this notion.

Rip.

[SpatFieya]

Rip, I just started reading, and dammit... I know this is going to make me shed man tears.



I don't know if I can read this tonight. I can't be deprived of this good, happy mood I'm in. I will soon though, and I'll be sure to comment about it.

[RedTracer7]

Lividity Jones wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...
Bring tissues.

Double meaning has double meaning.

Considering the context of the chapter...

I'm going to go vomit.

Giggi-

[Collider]

Azint wrote...

RiptideX1090 wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Gotta throw in with Collider. I'm not willing to be a monster. I would consider wiping them out for continued belligerence, but not enslaving them. I'm better than a dirty blink.

I am utterly, vehemently, completely, and in every possible way against enslavement of any kind. The only reason I decided to rewrite the heretics was because they were willing to do the same to Legion's geth.

I would not call rewrting the geth enslavement.

It is brainwashing. I found rewriting to be morally questionable.

[RiptideX1090]

Azint wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

Why wasn't peace an option?  Is the question I'm mainly interested in.  If the geth are willing to work with the quarians (which seems pretty likely,) Xen's plan is needlessly wreckless, on top of the whole morality quandry.

...Which is exactly why it's a terrible idea.

I see it as two factors. You're going to HAVE to get the quarians on your side. They will only join you if they can shelter their non combatants. You have to solve this. You could give them a new world, and at the end of the game where it explains ala Dragon age the repercussions of your actions, you learn they live a hard life with constant pirate and slaver attacks with no real way to defend themselves, their fleet spread too thin. Another option is to go to war with the geth, but that leaves them weak for when the Reapers show. Next up is peace. Peace works, but only if certain conditions are met. It then branches. If you convice the geth to stay behind and help the quarians, they prosper. If the geth leave and upload to the Dyson sphere, the quarians are left alone and suffer for it. If you use Xen's rewrite, the geth become slaves and serve the quarians as a massive army and labor force. Basically? The only way the quarians come out on top are Xen's plan, and the extremely hard to pull off ultimate paragon path, where the geth choose to stay behind and act as a military and labor force, as penance for the harm caused in the morning war. These are the only endings where the quarians return to power and join the Council.

[Lividity Jones]

SpatFieya wrote...

Rip, I just started reading, and dammit... I know this is going to make me shed man tears.

I don't know if I can read this tonight. I can't be deprived of this good, happy mood I'm in. I will soon though, and I'll be sure to comment about it.

Take your time.

No rush.