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[ElectronicPostingInterface]

Who is this rip person



Enslavement might be too strong. However altering someone's personality and mind is extremely morally questionable.

[Collider]

PKchu wrote...

Who is this rip person

Enslavement might be too strong. However altering someone's personality and mind is extremely morally questionable.

In a way, it is like killing the person.

[RedTracer7]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Azint wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

Why wasn't peace an option?  Is the question I'm mainly interested in.  If the geth are willing to work with the quarians (which seems pretty likely,) Xen's plan is needlessly wreckless, on top of the whole morality quandry.

...Which is exactly why it's a terrible idea.

I see it as two factors. You're going to HAVE to get the quarians on your side. They will only join you if they can shelter their non combatants. You have to solve this. You could give them a new world, and at the end of the game where it explains ala Dragon age the repercussions of your actions, you learn they live a hard life with constant pirate and slaver attacks with no real way to defend themselves, their fleet spread too thin. Another option is to go to war with the geth, but that leaves them weak for when the Reapers show. Next up is peace. Peace works, but only if certain conditions are met. It then branches. If you convice the geth to stay behind and help the quarians, they prosper. If the geth leave and upload to the Dyson sphere, the quarians are left alone and suffer for it. If you use Xen's rewrite, the geth become slaves and serve the quarians as a massive army and labor force. Basically? The only way the quarians come out on top are Xen's plan, and the extremely hard to pull off ultimate paragon path, where the geth choose to stay behind and act as a military and labor force, as penance for the harm caused in the morning war. These are the only endings where the quarians return to power and join the Council.

You really think the Quarians couldn't do well without Geth help on Rannoch?  The raw material wealth of an entire planet for a group of only 17 million?

Sound to me like the quarians would just need a touch of Manifest Destiny in order to spur development.

[Kikaimegami]

Did someone say geth?

[RiptideX1090]

Lividity Jones wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...
Bring tissues.

Double meaning has double meaning.

Considering the context of the chapter...

I'm going to go vomit.

My response... what did I do with it...

Oh... damn... looks like I don't have one... well... that sucks...

[nickFury]

SpatFieya wrote...

Rip, I just started reading, and dammit... I know this is going to make me shed man tears.

I don't know if I can read this tonight. I can't be deprived of this good, happy mood I'm in. I will soon though, and I'll be sure to comment about it.

Personally im going to wait till Xen starts getting some form of pay back, I can't read something with such horrid evil things and be stuck dwelling on it till the next chapter comes out. Sadly something tells me im going to be waiting for a while

[NuclearBuddha]

Kikaimegami wrote...
Did someone say geth?

[RiptideX1090]

Collider wrote...

PKchu wrote...

Who is this rip person

Enslavement might be too strong. However altering someone's personality and mind is extremely morally questionable.

In a way, it is like killing the person.

You kill them either way. Legion states this. Effectively? You're simply turning over extra resources to the true Geth.

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

You could mindwrite me to like cheese instead of pie.



Then you could mindwrite me to be a Catholic nun who believed to be the reincarnation of Jesus.



To a certain extent mindwriting might be "insignificant" but at another level it destroys what the person was.

[Lividity Jones]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Kikaimegami wrote...
Did someone say geth?

Tali haet geth.

[cannedcream]

InHarmsWay wrote...

Okay two points I wanted to add to the conversation:

1) Tali's Trial

Neither ULB or LLR or Rally are cop outs. The trial is about Tali's judgment. The Admirals really don't have evidence that Tali was negligent. Shipping records are not sufficient evidence. Anything could have reactivated the Geth. Even a power surge. They don't know. Even talking to the Admirals they made it clear the trial was mostly about their own politics and any part dealing with Tali was about her judgment. Even when you come back Shala asks if Shepard can "present something that would renew their faith in her judgment." The speeches were about her past judgments and how sound they were. Even going as far to say none of them would be alive without her. By pulling their backroom politics into the public, this eliminated any political gain from exiling Tali.

2) Tali as Admiral

If you romance her, I doubt she would agree to the promotion. The can't forcefully make her a military leader. I know Quarian politics and military is different, but an Admiral is the highest position in the Fleet. They would not force someone into that position and have them resent it. It would be counter-productive to their own people. Frankly the talk about her being an Admiral is probably just excitement after getting exonerated. I doubt a 24 year old would be promoted past captains who are in their 50s or 60s.

I agree with you completely for the first part, now as for the second. . .

I can't speak for everyone here, but my personal concern for why Tali, even a romanced Tali, might agree to become an admiral would be because of her fierce loyalty to her own people. She has a selfless nature that suggests to me that, even though she would be happier with Shepard and the Normandy, she might opt to do what she believes is the 'right' and 'selfless' thing and join the board. Now, I'm not saying that it WILL happen, I'm just saying that, knowing what we do about her character, it's a highly possible one.

Who knows, maybe we'll be given the chance to either encourage her to go or convince her to stay. Would make for an interesting moment in the game. For the Tali fans anyway. Perhaps all the LIs will have some kind of similar 'major decision'.

[NCLanceman]

Kikaimegami wrote...

Did someone say geth?

No Data Available.

[Kikaimegami]

Good lord, massive jpeg compression.. it burns... IT BURNS!

[Collider]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Collider wrote...

PKchu wrote...

Who is this rip person

Enslavement might be too strong. However altering someone's personality and mind is extremely morally questionable.

In a way, it is like killing the person.

You kill them either way. Legion states this. Effectively? You're simply turning over extra resources to the true Geth.

I also factored in that rewriting them does not guarantee that they wont just support the Reapers again.

Modifié par Collider, 02 août 2010 - 04:22 .

[Azint]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

I see it as two factors. You're going to HAVE to get the quarians on your side. They will only join you if they can shelter their non combatants. You have to solve this. You could give them a new world, and at the end of the game where it explains ala Dragon age the repercussions of your actions, you learn they live a hard life with constant pirate and slaver attacks with no real way to defend themselves, their fleet spread too thin. Another option is to go to war with the geth, but that leaves them weak for when the Reapers show. Next up is peace. Peace works, but only if certain conditions are met. It then branches. If you convice the geth to stay behind and help the quarians, they prosper. If the geth leave and upload to the Dyson sphere, the quarians are left alone and suffer for it. If you use Xen's rewrite, the geth become slaves and serve the quarians as a massive army and labor force. Basically? The only way the quarians come out on top are Xen's plan, and the extremely hard to pull off ultimate paragon path, where the geth choose to stay behind and act as a military and labor force, as penance for the harm caused in the morning war. These are the only endings where the quarians return to power and join the Council.

Considering that is all complete speculation on top of predictions, it's a flimsy platform to speak from.

No matter what we do, it will never be perfect, absolutely nothing will ever be done the way we intended. There will alyways be outside factors that we would never expect to damper what we wanted. Reprogramming the geth to serve the quarians again is a very rash idea, for all we know, the geth may eventually start another uprising. Even so, I imagine the quarians learned from their mistakes and I'm sure they would be very uneasy about the idea of having the geth serve them once more. The best we can do is to encourage them to work out their dispute and hope they can each find a way to cope with one another peacefully.

[epoch_]

reposting

[Kikaimegami]

I'd join in on this debate, but I don't want to knock myself out with all the headdesking that might be involved.

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

See though, I prefer killing them. Geth value places self determination high. Rewriting them is basically pissing on their most sacred and personal value. If you kill them, you're essentially taking out hostile combatants. If you re-write them, you essentially force them to do something against their will. It's like living death, complete violation.

[NuclearBuddha]

Collider wrote...
I also factored in that rewriting them does not guarantee that they wont just support the Reapers again.

This is why I consider it more like forcibly dragging them back to the debating table rather than brainwashing.

[Azint]

Lividity Jones wrote...

Tali haet geth.

I will give you the benfit of the doubt and assume that typo was intentional.

[samjc3]

Lividity Jones wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...
Bring tissues.

Double meaning has double meaning.

Considering the context of the chapter...

I'm going to go vomit.

I think I will come with you. That had to be the hardest thing Ive ever read. Someone should post some uplifting and happy minifics.

[RiptideX1090]

nickFury wrote...

SpatFieya wrote...

Rip, I just started reading, and dammit... I know this is going to make me shed man tears.

I don't know if I can read this tonight. I can't be deprived of this good, happy mood I'm in. I will soon though, and I'll be sure to comment about it.

Personally im going to wait till Xen starts getting some form of pay back, I can't read something with such horrid evil things and be stuck dwelling on it till the next chapter comes out. Sadly something tells me im going to be waiting for a while

Soon.

If you want, wait for a couple of chapters... then read it all in one go.

[Collider]

I don't think Tali would want to be an admiral unless she thought it was needed. She's not caught for being a leader, so much as Freedom's Progress seems to indicate anyway.



The games DO kind of foreshadow her becoming an admiral though - which may or may not be worrying.

[NuclearBuddha]

Azint wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...
Tali haet geth.

I will give you the benfit of the doubt and assume that typo was intentional.

Tali loev Shepard.