18744 réponses à ce sujet

[nickFury]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Azint wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

Why wasn't peace an option?  Is the question I'm mainly interested in.  If the geth are willing to work with the quarians (which seems pretty likely,) Xen's plan is needlessly wreckless, on top of the whole morality quandry.

...Which is exactly why it's a terrible idea.

I see it as two factors. You're going to HAVE to get the quarians on your side. They will only join you if they can shelter their non combatants. You have to solve this. You could give them a new world, and at the end of the game where it explains ala Dragon age the repercussions of your actions, you learn they live a hard life with constant pirate and slaver attacks with no real way to defend themselves, their fleet spread too thin. Another option is to go to war with the geth, but that leaves them weak for when the Reapers show. Next up is peace. Peace works, but only if certain conditions are met. It then branches. If you convice the geth to stay behind and help the quarians, they prosper. If the geth leave and upload to the Dyson sphere, the quarians are left alone and suffer for it. If you use Xen's rewrite, the geth become slaves and serve the quarians as a massive army and labor force. Basically? The only way the quarians come out on top are Xen's plan, and the extremely hard to pull off ultimate paragon path, where the geth choose to stay behind and act as a military and labor force, as penance for the harm caused in the morning war. These are the only endings where the quarians return to power and join the Council.

Hmm interesting Ideas although I could potentiall see an partnership between the alliance and the quarians.
As for tha ala Dragon Age, do not want, that was the only part of the game I was hugely dissapointed in so very anti climactic would have been better imo if there was cinematics to go with it. Would greatly prefer some form of cinematic conclusion in ME3 for the various endings.

[Kikaimegami]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

If you want, wait for a couple of chapters... then read it all in one go.

This is my plan.

[SpatFieya]

Lividity Jones wrote...

SpatFieya wrote...

Rip, I just started reading, and dammit... I know this is going to make me shed man tears.

I don't know if I can read this tonight. I can't be deprived of this good, happy mood I'm in. I will soon though, and I'll be sure to comment about it.

Take your time.

No rush.

Guys, I really have to hand it to you both. I consider my self to have somewhat hardened nerves, but I couldn't even begin to fathom being able to write this stuff out. It really takes talent, determination and nerve to go through with what you two are doing. I really respect both of you, Cream and anyone who can type up something so nerve wracking.

It's hard for me to read at points, because it's like you're watching something horrible happen to someone, and there's nothing I or anyone can do about it. Like you wish you were there so that you could do something.

Anyways, I tip my hat to you both.

Now back to Tali. 

[Collider]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Collider wrote...
I also factored in that rewriting them does not guarantee that they wont just support the Reapers again.

This is why I consider it more like forcibly dragging them back to the debating table rather than brainwashing.

It's still altering their beliefs - which is what brainwashing is, imo.

[NuclearBuddha]

Collider wrote...
I don't think Tali would want to be an admiral unless she thought it was needed. She's not caught for being a leader, so much as Freedom's Progress seems to indicate anyway.

The games DO kind of foreshadow her becoming an admiral though - which may or may not be worrying.

It would be an extremely boneheaded move on BW's part.

[Water Dumple]

I didn't have much of a moral issue with rewriting the Geth. Whether you choose to destroy them or rewrite them, you are effectively making them forget about anything they may have seen value in, changing their general ethics, and so on. Ordinarily this would be a problem, except the converted Geth would not be aware of their transition and hence would not know that they had been wronged in any way. As Legion said, the heretics would be as they were before--Free to stay with the main group or choose to do as they wished, even if it meant breaking off to follow the Reapers again. If they could consciously make that decision again without knowing that they had chosen it before, then rewriting leaves no wound because the heretics are unaware of any change.

Blowing them up ends their current stream of consciousness in a different way, but as AIs do not feel physical pain, it seems equally just. This set of "equal morals" is apparent even to the Legion, as almost an exact 50% favor rewrite to the 50% that favor destruction.

Obviously one is more ethical than the other to some degree, but if it can't be decided in a utilitarian way, it's pretty much up to Shepard's judgment. Fortunately, the Legion does have a very slight majority favoring a certain solution, so you can go with the majority there.

Modifié par Water Dumple, 02 août 2010 - 04:27 .

[Collider]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Azint wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...
Tali haet geth.

I will give you the benfit of the doubt and assume that typo was intentional.

Tali loev Shepard.

[Collider]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Collider wrote...
I don't think Tali would want to be an admiral unless she thought it was needed. She's not caught for being a leader, so much as Freedom's Progress seems to indicate anyway.

The games DO kind of foreshadow her becoming an admiral though - which may or may not be worrying.

It would be an extremely boneheaded move on BW's part.

I can totally see them doing it though.

[Kikaimegami]

Runescapeguy9 wrote...

Kikaimegami wrote...

I'd join in on this debate, but I don't want to knock myself out with all the headdesking that might be involved.

Get a softer desk or place Neko between! :innocent:

Good lord, no! If I headbutted her, I'd end up with a bleeding scalp!

[NuclearBuddha]

Collider wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Collider wrote...
I also factored in that rewriting them does not guarantee that they wont just support the Reapers again.

This is why I consider it more like forcibly dragging them back to the debating table rather than brainwashing.

It's still altering their beliefs - which is what brainwashing is, imo.

But they know everything that happened.  They know exactly what was changed and why.  They can change it back if they decide to.  There's not really a good human analogy because as Legion will agree, they are not human and do not have the same thought process.

[Azint]

PKchu wrote...

See though, I prefer killing them. Geth value places self determination high. Rewriting them is basically pissing on their most sacred and personal value. If you kill them, you're essentially taking out hostile combatants. If you re-write them, you essentially force them to do something against their will. It's like living death, complete violation.

You see, now you are comparing their functionality to ours. The geth are different.

You can not state what they believe in and try to analyze their values compared to our own, it implies that they do not understand themselves and you do. The geth are machines, they may be sapient, but they are not like us. "Brainwashing" is essentially a euphemism, you are not destroying their minds and replacing it with something else, you are actually rebooting them and leaving them to contemplate what has happened.

[RiptideX1090]

SpatFieya wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...

SpatFieya wrote...

Rip, I just started reading, and dammit... I know this is going to make me shed man tears.

I don't know if I can read this tonight. I can't be deprived of this good, happy mood I'm in. I will soon though, and I'll be sure to comment about it.

Take your time.

No rush.

Guys, I really have to hand it to you both. I consider my self to have somewhat hardened nerves, but I couldn't even begin to fathom being able to write this stuff out. It really takes talent, determination and nerve to go through with what you two are doing. I really respect both of you, Cream and anyone who can type up something so nerve wracking.

It's hard for me to read at points, because it's like you're watching something horrible happen to someone, and there's nothing I or anyone can do about it. Like you wish you were there so that you could do something.

Anyways, I tip my hat to you both.

Now back to Tali. 

You'd get spare Rip points if you used the comment section of the story.

But, yeah...

I'd be lying if I said Jones and I haven't both been left with a very sour taste in our mouths after writing this stuff...

Having a partner to keep you going really helps.

[nickFury]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

nickFury wrote...

SpatFieya wrote...

Rip, I just started reading, and dammit... I know this is going to make me shed man tears.

I don't know if I can read this tonight. I can't be deprived of this good, happy mood I'm in. I will soon though, and I'll be sure to comment about it.

Personally im going to wait till Xen starts getting some form of pay back, I can't read something with such horrid evil things and be stuck dwelling on it till the next chapter comes out. Sadly something tells me im going to be waiting for a while

Soon.

If you want, wait for a couple of chapters... then read it all in one go.

thats the plan.

[RedTracer7]

samjc3 wrote...

I think I will come with you. That had to be the hardest thing Ive ever read. Someone should post some uplifting and happy minifics.

Hmm....

Redtracer7 wrote...

cannedcream wrote...

RedTracer7 wrote...

Hey, I already "got" Lia.  Thats a +1 for my Quarian count.

I'm calling the police. 

I smiled, --for what had I to fear? I bade the police welcome. The shriek, I said, was my own in a dream. Lia, I mentioned, was absent in the country. I took my visitors all over the house. I bade them search --search well. I led them, at length, to her chamber. I showed them her treasures, secure, undisturbed. In the enthusiasm of my confidence, I brought chairs into the room, and desired them here to rest from their fatigues, while I myself, in the wild audacity of my perfect triumph, placed my own seat upon the very spot beneath which she lay, bound and gagged.

Modifié par RedTracer7, 02 août 2010 - 04:28 .

[samjc3]

SpatFieya wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...

SpatFieya wrote...

Rip, I just started reading, and dammit... I know this is going to make me shed man tears.

I don't know if I can read this tonight. I can't be deprived of this good, happy mood I'm in. I will soon though, and I'll be sure to comment about it.

Take your time.

No rush.

Guys, I really have to hand it to you both. I consider my self to have somewhat hardened nerves, but I couldn't even begin to fathom being able to write this stuff out. It really takes talent, determination and nerve to go through with what you two are doing. I really respect both of you, Cream and anyone who can type up something so nerve wracking.

It's hard for me to read at points, because it's like you're watching something horrible happen to someone, and there's nothing I or anyone can do about it. Like you wish you were there so that you could do something.

Anyways, I tip my hat to you both.

Now back to Tali. 

Ah thanks for that. now I dont have to type it.

[Phil725]

Runescapeguy9 wrote...

cannedcream wrote...

She's 24 and the people she led wound up dead. Looking good for an admiral position. I say again, she can do more for her people as a squadmate for Shepard than on a useless board of admirals.

Yeah, I can't even see Tali believably being offered the position, let alone her taking it.

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

I think I somewhere misunderstood what exactly happens to them, or missed some key dialog.



You're basically putting them back where they get to...redecide? What now?



That's pretty relevant.

[nickFury]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Azint wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...
Tali haet geth.

I will give you the benfit of the doubt and assume that typo was intentional.

Tali loev Shepard.

good enough reson to post this

[NuclearBuddha]

[quote]RedTracer7 wrote...

I smiled, --for what had I to fear? I bade the police welcome. The shriek, I said, was my own in a dream. Lia, I mentioned, was absent in the country. I took my visitors all over the house. I bade them search --search well. I led them, at length, to her chamber. I showed them her treasures, secure, undisturbed. In the enthusiasm of my confidence, I brought chairs into the room, and desired them here to rest from their fatigues, while I myself, in the wild audacity of my perfect triumph, placed my own seat upon the very spot beneath which she lay, bound and gagged. [/quote][/quote]
Call the poliiiice.

[Kikaimegami]

You guys might like this, or not, I'm not sure.





1280x1024

[InHarmsWay]

Did someone say uplifting fan fic?

Mourn, Longing and Love

Modifié par InHarmsWay, 02 août 2010 - 04:31 .

[NuclearBuddha]

PKchu wrote...
I think I somewhere misunderstood what exactly happens to them, or missed some key dialog.

You're basically putting them back where they get to...redecide? What now?

That's pretty relevant.

Yes.

[SpatFieya]

RiptideX1090 wrote...
You'd get spare Rip points if you used the comment section of the story.

But, yeah...

I'd be lying if I said Jones and I haven't both been left with a very sour taste in our mouths after writing this stuff...

Having a partner to keep you going really helps.

Yeah I can only imagine. It's better to 'walk into hell' with someone by your side than alone I suppose. 

And I'll put that bit in the comments, you both deserve it.

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

OK, then that's different. I misunderstood it as something like you MAKE them a position, not give them a chance to reconsider.



Still ethically a bit troublesome, but a lot less shady.