18744 réponses à ce sujet

[samjc3]

good enough reson to post this
Snip

There is always, "Good enough reason" to post that. It is awesome.

[NuclearBuddha]

Water Dumple wrote...
Obviously one is more ethical than the other to some degree, but if it can't be decided in a utilitarian way, it's pretty much up to Shepard's judgment. Fortunately, the Legion does have a very slight majority favoring a certain solution, so you can go with the majority there.

Humorously, this is what tipped the balance for me the first time I played through.

Edit:  Also, wish I knew why those few runtimes were abstaining, though.

Modifié par NuclearBuddha, 02 août 2010 - 04:33 .

[RiptideX1090]

PKchu wrote...

OK, then that's different. I misunderstood it as something like you MAKE them a position, not give them a chance to reconsider.

Still ethically a bit troublesome, but a lot less shady.

It's not enslavement.

You're basically giving them the True Geth's logic. And, as you all know, the heretics were originally true geth. It's basicaly like you're rebooting them with how they originally thought, but with all of the data from their time as Heretics intact.

[NuclearBuddha]

mrsph wrote...
Tali may be a very talented person. But I really don't think she has the qualities that make a good leader.

The suicide mission agrees with you.

[Kikaimegami]

The Heretic rewrite/destroy thing is hard as hell, seriously.



I finally decided to destroy them, because if you rewrite and talk to Legion afterward, you find out that the virus didn't work on all of them and I'd rather not have that margin of error. Yeah, it's metagaming. Bite me. I still can't make a solid decision on which is the better path.

[Su37]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

mrsph wrote...
Tali may be a very talented person. But I really don't think she has the qualities that make a good leader.

The suicide mission agrees with you.

Anyone who sent Tali to lead the fire team is an idiot.

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

No, it's not enslavement.



As I said, I misunderstood the mission parameters.

[Azint]

I started Legion's loyalty mission with the intent of destroying the heretics. Then I got a thorough explanation of how the geth function, how they think, and how their gestalt actually works, this made me begin to reconsider myself. Then Legion told me that fewer programs preferred destruction over rewrite. I went with the slight majority because I felt that a geth collective would know better how to handle its own people than I would.

[NuclearBuddha]

Kikaimegami wrote...

The Heretic rewrite/destroy thing is hard as hell, seriously.

I finally decided to destroy them, because if you rewrite and talk to Legion afterward, you find out that the virus didn't work on all of them and I'd rather not have that margin of error. Yeah, it's metagaming. Bite me. I still can't make a solid decision on which is the better path.

Uh... it doesn't work on all of them even if you destroy them.  That's the hedge so the game can continue to throw geth opponents at you.

[Pacifien]

RiptideX1090 wrote...
I am utterly, vehemently, completely, and in every possible way against enslavement of any kind. The only reason I decided to rewrite the heretics was because they were willing to do the same to Legion's geth.

The Heretics made their choice. If they were willing to reconsider their conclusions, that's promising. Maybe they'll actually change their consensus. But I wouldn't force a new conclusion on them.

Who you are today is a culmination of all you've done before. For the Heretics, all they had done before is based on their belief in A. Now they are to believe B, which makes all their previous processes invalid. It's waking up one day being told you have always been here, when all of your memories tell you that you should be someplace else.

The only reason Legion brings up the possibility of rewrite is because the option was there. For every consensus made, the Geth must consider all options available, no matter how ludicrous. As they work through the data, options start falling by the wayside until only one option remains as the most logical choice. Given time, I don't know what Legion's Geth would have decided. But at the critical moment the choice had to be made, they were still--you know what, screw it. At the time I started writing this, the discussion had probably already moved on to something else that might actually be Tali related.

[Kikaimegami]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Kikaimegami wrote...

The Heretic rewrite/destroy thing is hard as hell, seriously.

I finally decided to destroy them, because if you rewrite and talk to Legion afterward, you find out that the virus didn't work on all of them and I'd rather not have that margin of error. Yeah, it's metagaming. Bite me. I still can't make a solid decision on which is the better path.

Uh... it doesn't work on all of them even if you destroy them.  That's the hedge so the game can continue to throw geth opponents at you.

Well, my point specifically is that if the virus has a chance of error, I'd rather not use it just in case it has the capacity to really screw something up.

[NCLanceman]

SU37 wrote...
Anyone who sent Tali to lead the fire team is an idiot.

I still wonder why anyone would do this. Tali is many wonderful things, but if anything Freedom's Progress shows quite clearly she isn't to be trusted with a command more difficult that leading five sailors to a whorehouse.

Seriously. Prazza had a better ability to command than her. Think about that.

[RiptideX1090]

Pacifien wrote...

RiptideX1090 wrote...
I am utterly, vehemently, completely, and in every possible way against enslavement of any kind. The only reason I decided to rewrite the heretics was because they were willing to do the same to Legion's geth.

The Heretics made their choice. If they were willing to reconsider their conclusions, that's promising. Maybe they'll actually change their consensus. But I wouldn't force a new conclusion on them.

Who you are today is a culmination of all you've done before. For the Heretics, all they had done before is based on their belief in A. Now they are to believe B, which makes all their previous processes invalid. It's waking up one day being told you have always been here, when all of your memories tell you that you should be someplace else.

The only reason Legion brings up the possibility of rewrite is because the option was there. For every consensus made, the Geth must consider all options available, no matter how ludicrous. As they work through the data, options start falling by the wayside until only one option remains as the most logical choice. Given time, I don't know what Legion's Geth would have decided. But at the critical moment the choice had to be made, they were still--you know what, screw it. At the time I started writing this, the discussion had probably already moved on to something else that might actually be Tali related.

All valid points.

And this is very Tali related, I think. It could potentially affect the ending of the story for the quarians.

[Azint]

Pacifien wrote...

The only reason Legion brings up the possibility of rewrite is because the option was there. For every consensus made, the Geth must consider all options available, no matter how ludicrous.

That's exactly why I felt Legion mentioned that keeping the Collector base may be for the best.

[NCLanceman]

Runescapeguy9 wrote...

NCLanceman wrote...

I still wonder why anyone would do this. Tali is many wonderful things, but if anything Freedom's Progress shows quite clearly she isn't to be trusted with a command more difficult that leading five sailors to a whorehouse.

Seriously. Prazza had a better ability to command than her. Think about that.

Well I wouldn't say that. If he had listened to her he'd still be alive...

Ability to command and good judgement are two different skills. While Tali has one, she damn sure doesn't have the other.

[Strawberry Kiwi]

Kikaimegami wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Kikaimegami wrote...

The Heretic rewrite/destroy thing is hard as hell, seriously.

I finally decided to destroy them, because if you rewrite and talk to Legion afterward, you find out that the virus didn't work on all of them and I'd rather not have that margin of error. Yeah, it's metagaming. Bite me. I still can't make a solid decision on which is the better path.

Uh... it doesn't work on all of them even if you destroy them.  That's the hedge so the game can continue to throw geth opponents at you.

Well, my point specifically is that if the virus has a chance of error, I'd rather not use it just in case it has the capacity to really screw something up.

Actually, I chose to destroy the Heretic geth. If the geth as a whole decide to get in my way, they will be easier to eliminate.
[/renegade]

Modifié par Strawberry Kiwi, 02 août 2010 - 04:40 .

[RiptideX1090]

Azint wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

The only reason Legion brings up the possibility of rewrite is because the option was there. For every consensus made, the Geth must consider all options available, no matter how ludicrous.

That's exactly why I felt Legion mentioned that keeping the Collector base may be for the best.

We'll see...

I personally think it would be AWESOME if rewriting the heretics SERIOUSLY screws you over in the next game.

[Pacifien]

RiptideX1090 wrote...
You're basically giving them the True Geth's logic. And, as you all know, the heretics were originally true geth. It's basicaly like you're rebooting them with how they originally thought, but with all of the data from their time as Heretics intact.

They originally thought joining the Reapers was a good idea. You're basically rebooting them with a consensus they did not make.

Unless you believe that Sovereign played a hand in the schism to start with. Which many people do. Possible, but there's no explicit evidence that this was the case. As such, I've chosen to view otherwise.

[Su37]

NCLanceman wrote...

I still wonder why anyone would do this. Tali is many wonderful things, but if anything Freedom's Progress shows quite clearly she isn't to be trusted with a command more difficult that leading five sailors to a whorehouse.

Seriously. Prazza had a better ability to command than her. Think about that.

:/
Prazza just didn't listen to Tali. Had she actually commanded him to stick with the plan, there would have been a lot fewer casualties, maybe even none.

[Azint]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

We'll see...

I personally think it would be AWESOME if rewriting the heretics SERIOUSLY screws you over in the next game.

Sometimes I feel paragon choices are too naive.

[Phil725]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Azint wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

The only reason Legion brings up the possibility of rewrite is because the option was there. For every consensus made, the Geth must consider all options available, no matter how ludicrous.

That's exactly why I felt Legion mentioned that keeping the Collector base may be for the best.

We'll see...

I personally think it would be AWESOME if rewriting the heretics SERIOUSLY screws you over in the next game.

I'd be satisfied with one decision affecting the plot in the most minor way personally

[Kikaimegami]

Strawberry Kiwi wrote...

Actually, I chose to destroy the Heretic geth. If the geth as a whole decide to get in my way, they will be easier to eliminate.
[/renegade]

Because destroying less than 5% of the geth is really going to tip things in your favor