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[Collider]

People say that Tali is "genocidal," but I've never actually seen evidence of this. She doesn't like the Geth (before Legion) but she never outright says that she'd have them all killed. Her belligerence to the Geth in ME1 is understandable, because those Geth were Heretics and were basically "rawr kill all organics."

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Modifié par Collider, 03 août 2010 - 02:56 .

[Phil725]

RiptideX1090 wrote...
*snip*

It's different for me, because I agree with her. If I was Shepard, I'd have made it clear to Miranda and Jacob that if they even so much as look at me in the wrong way, I'm going to shoot them in the knees. Tali's comment about the Grenade makes me happy, because it's like she's saying that if it comes to that, she's got my back, and now Jacob knows that. And I'm okay with that.

Suffice it to say, I rather hate Cerberus, and have an openly hostile relationship with them.

Good point, I always assume a more neutral Shepard for issues like these.  Something like that could easily affect the situation.

[RiptideX1090]

Runescapeguy9 wrote...

phonypapercut wrote...

Runescapeguy9 wrote...

By the way, did you ever recover from deletion?

Yes. Chapter 1 has been finished for about a week, but I just can't bring myself to edit it. And I might want to get chapter 2 done before I upload anything.

Alright. Cool.

I honestly don't know which one I find more attractive.

[Azint]

Collider wrote...

People say that Tali is "genocidal," but I've never actually seen evidence of this. She doesn't like the Geth (before Legion) but she never outright says that she'd have them all killed. Her belligerence to the Geth in ME1 is understandable, because those Geth were Heretics and were basically "rawr kill all organics."

Depending on your active squadmates in ME1, Tali may advocate the final genocide of the rachni, support the extermination of Zhu's Hope, and even destroying the Council.

She always supports any way to damage the geth, that is a defining trait.

Modifié par Azint, 03 août 2010 - 03:02 .

[Collider]

Sure, I'm hostile to Cerberus to but I'm not going to hate on someone who's only with Cerberus in an attempt to save lives by helping Shepard. It's like hating on a social worker just because they were employed by the German government when the ****s were in power. He's working for the ****s, true, but it's only because the goverment is the only enitity that will hire social workers.

That's really not the same thing.

[kraidy1117]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Runescapeguy9 wrote...

phonypapercut wrote...

Runescapeguy9 wrote...

By the way, did you ever recover from deletion?

Yes. Chapter 1 has been finished for about a week, but I just can't bring myself to edit it. And I might want to get chapter 2 done before I upload anything.

Alright. Cool.

I honestly don't know which one I find more attractive.

Dat tongue?

[Titanium Man]

Did someone say, "Titanium Man, write something FANTASTIC?"

***

"Tali," Hannah said.  "May I speak alone with my son for a moment?"

"Yes, ma'am."  The quarian rose from her chair and walked outside of the room.  Mother and son sat together with the room's large view to the Citadel outside, to flickering traffic lights and speeding hovercars, artificial sunlight glinting from their metal hoods.

"She's very nice," Hannah said after a few countable moments. She took a sip of her tea, cup handled with both hands, eyes closed.   "Didn't expect you would go for someone who isn't human, though."

"Don't do this," Shepard said.

"Do what?"

"You hate her."

"I do not."  Hannah kept her eyes closed.

"Yes you do.  I know you.  You're mad because she's not human and won't be able to give you grandchildren."

Hannah set down the teacup on the glass desk reaching up just below her knees.  "It's unfortunate."

"There you go," Shepard said, jabbing a finger at Hannah.  "Now you're going to guilt trip me because I didn't do what you want."

"I'm not putting you on a guilt trip."

"Then what about my major?"  Shepard spread his hands.  "What about signing up for service?  What about my other dates?  What about Iltha?"

"You told me yourself that Iltha was a poor choice," Hannah said.  Her skin always seemed faultless and smooth.  Only when she was becoming angry like she was now could someone notice the creases, the weary lines.  "You said she was in the wrong crowd and making bad choices."

"Even if she was clean, you would have hated her anyway because she was a turian.  And now you're doing the same thing again.  Just because Tali is a quarian."  Shepard rose from his seat, and the sunlight dragged his shadow towards the wall.  "What are you going to say?  That she's a thief?  A gypsy?"

"I want you to make the right choice, Joseph.  That's the only thing I've wanted from you."

Shepard turned away from Hannah.  "I've been making the right choices all my life.  They just weren't the choices you liked."

He left with a thunder of bootfalls.  Hannah brought the cup of tea to her mouth as her son left.  The cup lingered before she turned it over, draining the tea onto a spot next to her chair that she had cleaned before.

[Phil725]

Collider wrote...

I don't believe it's a slip up. Before Legion Tali seemed to believe that all of the Geth were uniformly bastards (verbatim). Similarly she doesn't expect much from Cerberus. Tali was burning bridges in what she said to Jacob, but I also like she wouldn't play along and warm up to the organization. Certainly, I'd be less than thrilled to make friends to members of a terrorist organization - especially one that threatened my "country." Anyway - what she said could very well be interpreted as a flaw - as in not giving Jacob a chance. And of course, flaws are good.

I see it as a slip up moreso because Tali doesn't normally generalize like that.  With the geth it wasn't as much of a generalization as it was the truth.  Every heretic geth ever was out to kill people, and the true geth were completely unknown.  People are different.  I do see it as a flaw, because even though she's justified in openly detesting Cerberus, normally she should be above the unnecessary generalizing before having the facts.  Flaws are fine like you say though, makes the characters more relatable.

[RiptideX1090]

michaelrsa wrote...


Sure, I'm hostile to Cerberus to but I'm not going to hate on someone who's only with Cerberus in an attempt to save lives by helping Shepard. It's like hating on a social worker just because they were employed by the German government when the ****s were in power. He's working for the ****s, true, but it's only because the goverment is the only enitity that will hire social workers.

I don't give a ****.

Jacob is free to stay on my ship. He's free to be part of my team so he can make his difference.

But he can keep his damn mouth shut while doing it. Miranda too. I don't recall asking for their opinions, and I get annoyed that they seem to feel the need to constantly give it. More irritating that they're usually BAD opinions, and they occasionally feel the need to be be hostile to the other people on your ship. Like Jacob and Thane, and Tali depending on how you interpret it.

[Collider]

Azint wrote...

Collider wrote...

People say that Tali is "genocidal," but I've never actually seen evidence of this. She doesn't like the Geth (before Legion) but she never outright says that she'd have them all killed. Her belligerence to the Geth in ME1 is understandable, because those Geth were Heretics and were basically "rawr kill all organics."

Depending on your active squadmates in ME1, Tali may advocate the final genocide of the rachni, support the extermination of Zhu's Hope, and even destroying the Council.

That's far from evidence. I wouldn't put much stock into any squad mates's immediate reactions to the major choices in ME1, because they can potentially have completely opposite[/i[ stances depending on the arbitrary circumstance of who you have with you.

She always supports any way to damage the geth, [i]that is a defininf trait.

Absolutely false. She doesn't approve of a certain someone's plan to enslave the Geth, for example.

[Phil725]

Lividity Jones wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...

I think she was well within her rights to give a sharp glare to someone who so casually drops the one thing that brought genocide down on her people.

But that's just me.

Just to be clear, I'm not arguing against the quarian death glare, she was well within her rights there.  I'm more against her whole antagonization of Jacob when he's just trying to be nice and smooth things over.

But the glare is the extent of her antagonization towards Jacob...

Unless your counting the fact that she detests being on a Cerberus-crewed ship. I think that's perfectly reasonable.

I was talking more about saying that she would gladly blow up Cerberus, and a few other lines that I forget now, which was as much of a shot at Jacob as his comment was. 

[Collider]

Phil725 wrote...

Collider wrote...

I don't believe it's a slip up. Before Legion Tali seemed to believe that all of the Geth were uniformly bastards (verbatim). Similarly she doesn't expect much from Cerberus. Tali was burning bridges in what she said to Jacob, but I also like she wouldn't play along and warm up to the organization. Certainly, I'd be less than thrilled to make friends to members of a terrorist organization - especially one that threatened my "country." Anyway - what she said could very well be interpreted as a flaw - as in not giving Jacob a chance. And of course, flaws are good.

I see it as a slip up moreso because Tali doesn't normally generalize like that.  With the geth it wasn't as much of a generalization as it was the truth.

I disagree. What Tali says about the Geth was a generalization. She even wanted to leave Legion in the Reaper base because she's generalizing all Geth are murderous or otherwise undesirable. Part of her character development in ME2 - should you make certain options - is her starting to make peace with the Geth and learning that they are not all the same, or that they are not all unreasonable. Some of her comments in the elevator conversations also somewhat point to generalizations about the races. Certainly though, I found her less generalizing than Garrus or Wrex, for example.

[kraidy1117]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

michaelrsa wrote...


Sure, I'm hostile to Cerberus to but I'm not going to hate on someone who's only with Cerberus in an attempt to save lives by helping Shepard. It's like hating on a social worker just because they were employed by the German government when the ****s were in power. He's working for the ****s, true, but it's only because the goverment is the only enitity that will hire social workers.

I don't give a ****.

Jacob is free to stay on my ship. He's free to be part of my team so he can make his difference.

But he can keep his damn mouth shut while doing it. Miranda too. I don't recall asking for their opinions, and I get annoyed that they seem to feel the need to constantly give it. More irritating that they're usually BAD opinions, and they occasionally feel the need to be be hostile to the other people on your ship. Like Jacob and Thane, and Tali depending on how you interpret it.

I like it that people give there thoughts on the matter and arn't scared to stand up to Shepard. I don't like the road they are taking with Shepard in ME2, he has become too much of your generic action hero, so I like it that people will give there own opinion on such, even if I don't agree with them.

[Azint]

Collider wrote...

That's far from evidence. I wouldn't put much stock into any squad mates's immediate reactions to the major choices in ME1, because they can potentially have completely opposite stances depending on the arbitrary circumstance of who you have with you.

...Which is exactly why I noted earlier how subjective this evidence was. 

Absolutely false. She doesn't approve of a certain someone's plan to enslave the Geth, for example.

It slipped my mind. Tali does begin to shift her stance on the geth once Legion enters, one that can be interpreted as open-minded and positive.

[Phil725]

RiptideX1090 wrote...
*snip*

I don't give a ****.

Jacob is free to stay on my ship. He's free to be part of my team so he can make his difference.

But he can keep his damn mouth shut while doing it. Miranda too. I don't recall asking for their opinions, and I get annoyed that they seem to feel the need to constantly give it. More irritating that they're usually BAD opinions, and they occasionally feel the need to be be hostile to the other people on your ship. Like Jacob and Thane, and Tali depending on how you interpret it.

For the record, I'm completely against Jacob in his conversation with Thane, that conversation seemed horribly not thought through at all on Bioware's part

[RiptideX1090]

kraidy1117 wrote...

RiptideX1090 wrote...

michaelrsa wrote...


Sure, I'm hostile to Cerberus to but I'm not going to hate on someone who's only with Cerberus in an attempt to save lives by helping Shepard. It's like hating on a social worker just because they were employed by the German government when the ****s were in power. He's working for the ****s, true, but it's only because the goverment is the only enitity that will hire social workers.

I don't give a ****.

Jacob is free to stay on my ship. He's free to be part of my team so he can make his difference.

But he can keep his damn mouth shut while doing it. Miranda too. I don't recall asking for their opinions, and I get annoyed that they seem to feel the need to constantly give it. More irritating that they're usually BAD opinions, and they occasionally feel the need to be be hostile to the other people on your ship. Like Jacob and Thane, and Tali depending on how you interpret it.

I like it that people give there thoughts on the matter and arn't scared to stand up to Shepard. I don't like the road they are taking with Shepard in ME2, he has become too much of your generic action hero, so I like it that people will give there own opinion on such, even if I don't agree with them.

You're right, of course.

I still would have liked the option to tell certain crew members to shut the hell up though...

[kraidy1117]

Collider wrote...

Azint wrote...

Collider wrote...

People say that Tali is "genocidal," but I've never actually seen evidence of this. She doesn't like the Geth (before Legion) but she never outright says that she'd have them all killed. Her belligerence to the Geth in ME1 is understandable, because those Geth were Heretics and were basically "rawr kill all organics."

Depending on your active squadmates in ME1, Tali may advocate the final genocide of the rachni, support the extermination of Zhu's Hope, and even destroying the Council.

That's far from evidence. I wouldn't put much stock into any squad mates's immediate reactions to the major choices in ME1, because they can potentially have completely opposite[/i[ stances depending on the arbitrary circumstance of who you have with you.

She always supports any way to damage the geth, [i]that is a defininf trait.

Absolutely false. She doesn't approve of a certain someone's plan to enslave the Geth, for example.

Like the total derailment with Liara if you bring her and Kaidan to the final mission.

[kraidy1117]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

RiptideX1090 wrote...

michaelrsa wrote...


Sure, I'm hostile to Cerberus to but I'm not going to hate on someone who's only with Cerberus in an attempt to save lives by helping Shepard. It's like hating on a social worker just because they were employed by the German government when the ****s were in power. He's working for the ****s, true, but it's only because the goverment is the only enitity that will hire social workers.

I don't give a ****.

Jacob is free to stay on my ship. He's free to be part of my team so he can make his difference.

But he can keep his damn mouth shut while doing it. Miranda too. I don't recall asking for their opinions, and I get annoyed that they seem to feel the need to constantly give it. More irritating that they're usually BAD opinions, and they occasionally feel the need to be be hostile to the other people on your ship. Like Jacob and Thane, and Tali depending on how you interpret it.

I like it that people give there thoughts on the matter and arn't scared to stand up to Shepard. I don't like the road they are taking with Shepard in ME2, he has become too much of your generic action hero, so I like it that people will give there own opinion on such, even if I don't agree with them.

You're right, of course.

I still would have liked the option to tell certain crew members to shut the hell up though...

Oh I am not saying they are right, but I liked that in ME2 your squad would tell you how they feel, sometimes you can tell them off(Miri and Jack fight is a perfect example of this) and other parts. It's what made the crew seem "alive"

[Azint]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

But he can keep his damn mouth shut while doing it. Miranda too. I don't recall asking for their opinions, and I get annoyed that they seem to feel the need to constantly give it. More irritating that they're usually BAD opinions, and they occasionally feel the need to be be hostile to the other people on your ship. Like Jacob and Thane, and Tali depending on how you interpret it.

I honestly doubt he meant to be hostile when introducing Tali, later they even seem to tolerate each other well enough, at least from what the game lets on.

Thane was inexcusable.

[Pacifien]

RiptideX1090 wrote...
I honestly don't know which one I find more attractive.

Since you weren't here earlier, curious to know what you think of this one:
http://www.foundatio...91&d=1280732396