18744 réponses à ce sujet

[Phil725]

nitefyre410 wrote...
*snip*
Its the nature of a people, to look for things to demonize and hate its easier to that rather than looking at oneself  for blame.    In most of the idle chatter you get the feeling that Quarians hold a deep seated hatred for  towards the Geth, even  Tali because a different character around when you mention the Geth. 

I hear things like the quarians viewing the geth as their children and as a fully sentient race, a more generous interpretation than the rest of the galaxy, and I get the opposite feeling.  I guess the grey area is seperating the difference between hate and idle dislike.  Because there is a big one.  In one version, the quarians will want to hunt the geth down for all eternity, in the other, the quarians can walk back into Rannoch peacefully, and the galaxy can move on altogether.  The quarians have reason to dislike, and could justify hate, but I just don't see the latter personally.  And it comes up often, whenever peace is mentioned, the hate is always listed as an obstacle, but what if its just a figment of peoples' imaginations?

I'm also hesitant to project human nature on a fictional alien race, since that's where I see this whole possible misconception coming from.  They aren't humans, and we aren't there.  What we would think is hugely irrelevant.

*top*

Modifié par Phil725, 03 août 2010 - 08:17 .

[CptSkull]

There's gonna be a war against the Reapers.

Modifié par CptSkull, 03 août 2010 - 08:20 .

[Phil725]

CptSkull wrote...

Seeing as most people here didn't hand over evidence in Tali trail, the most likely scenario is all the Quarian decide war with Geth is the best option for survival, but if you were to hand over the evidence you would meet diiferent factions of Quarian fleets who left the Flotilla

This is all speculation ofcourse.

 

You see the results of handing over the evidence in game.  The fleet begins to splinter, as the faction who are focused most strongly on reclamation at all costs realize just how close they are.  Another group either doesn't want to enslave the geth, or just doesn't trust things to not work out like the Morning Wars again.  Without handing over the evidence, Xen begins working on the data, but it isn't made common knowledge.  The status quo will remain until Rael/Xen's plan is finished.  I assume ME3 will involve getting there with peace first.  War hasn't been/won't be a choice because its not feasible, and the quarians know this.

nitefyre410 wrote...

War  is going to happen either way, not handing over the evidence  was a
favor to a friend who did not want to see her fathers name dragged
through the mud.   The trail was nothing more than a power struggle
between Korris and Daro'Xen.  Korris  support is  slowly being  
 weathered away by Daro'Xen,  Korris is the last voice of peace,
Han'Gerrel wants a war, Daro'Xen has machinations of the Galactic
domination and Shala Ra'an could give a vocha's ass about the fleet. 

Again, the quarians just want to reclaim the homeworld.  They don't believe peace is possible, that's why the peace admiral (Koris,) supports colonizing a different world, not reaching out to the geth.  If you offer Gerrel the homeworld for peace, he will scrap war plans in a second.  If the quarians can get the homeworld by war, they will, but that is the farthest away option.  Xen's plan being completed, and peace are both much more likely.  War is just the third, last resort option which basically has no chance of showing up.

[nitefyre410]

Phil725 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...
*snip*
Its the nature of a people, to look for things to demonize and hate its easier to that rather than looking at oneself  for blame.    In most of the idle chatter you get the feeling that Quarians hold a deep seated hatred for  towards the Geth, even  Tali because a different character around when you mention the Geth. 

I hear things like the quarians viewing the geth as their children and as a fully sentient race, a more generous interpretation than the rest of the galaxy, and I get the opposite feeling.  I guess the grey area is seperating the difference between hate and idle dislike.  Because there is a big one.  In one version, the quarians will want to hunt the geth down for all eternity, in the other, the quarians can walk back into Rannoch peacefully, and the galaxy can move on altogether.  The quarians have reason to dislike, and could justify hate, but I just don't see the latter personally.  And it comes up often, whenever peace is mentioned, the hate is always listed as an obstacle, but what if its just a figment of peoples' imaginations?

I'm also hesitant to project human nature on a fictional alien race, since that's where I see this whole possible misconception coming from.  They aren't humans, and we aren't there.  What we would think is hugely irrelevant.

*top*

*snip 

  

Hate is not something that is rational  its rather irrational you can hate something just for whatever reason you want.  Hate always is not just a human emotion its universal, the same with love and fear.   When you strip away all the alien sociology   the Asari, Krogan, Humans, Turian, Quarians, and Salarians  run off them same core emotional set what different  is how each race rationalize their actions. 

[Titanium Man]

Apathy Shepard Does Tali's Trial (Now With Neutral Interrupts)

Gerrel: Did you find anything on the Alarei that could clarify what happened there?
[Neutral Interrupt]
Shepard: The quarians died...because they were killed.

[MadCat221]

Bringing up my take on the Quarian Question again...

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/128/index/3274122/130#3298908

[Phil725]

nitefyre410 wrote...
*snip*

Hate is not something that is rational  its rather irrational you can hate something just for whatever reason you want.  Hate always is not just a human emotion its universal, the same with love and fear.   When you strip away all the alien sociology   the Asari, Krogan, Humans, Turian, Quarians, and Salarians  run off them same core emotional set what different  is how each race rationalize their actions. 

How each race rationalizes their actions is the key to the entire problem.  Do the quarians regret losing their homeworld based on their actions, or do they blame the geth for taking their homeworld.  I'm more just questioning how the latter has become the widely accepted view.  If anything, it seems like the former is much more likely to me.

[FsDxRAGE]

I saw a commercial and one of the actors looked like Liz. Not saying it was her but it looked like her. I liked that commercial

[CptSkull]

*cricket*

[MadCat221]

Phil725 wrote...

How each race rationalizes their actions is the key to the entire problem.  Do the quarians regret losing their homeworld based on their actions, or do they blame the geth for taking their homeworld.  I'm more just questioning how the latter has become the widely accepted view.  If anything, it seems like the former is much more likely to me.

Shala'raan considers their exile their own mistake. ("We've paid enough for our mistake")  Xen poses her question about her plans in a manner that suggests this is the prevailing opinion as well.

The codex also indicates that both religious and secular-thinking quarians consider their exile partly their own fault.

Koris obviously thinks this way.

Gerrel has a bit of General Ripper to him, though...

Modifié par MadCat221, 03 août 2010 - 08:40 .

[MadCat221]

Calinstel wrote...

How do you find returning the geth to be the prevalent desire?

Not what I meant...

"Do we fear our past mistakes or not?"  The prevailing opinion is that the Geth were a tragic mistake.  Hers is not.

Modifié par MadCat221, 03 août 2010 - 08:45 .

[nitefyre410]

Phil725 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...
*snip*

Hate is not something that is rational  its rather irrational you can hate something just for whatever reason you want.  Hate always is not just a human emotion its universal, the same with love and fear.   When you strip away all the alien sociology   the Asari, Krogan, Humans, Turian, Quarians, and Salarians  run off them same core emotional set what different  is how each race rationalize their actions. 

How each race rationalizes their actions is the key to the entire problem.  Do the quarians regret losing their homeworld based on their actions, or do they blame the geth for taking their homeworld.  I'm more just questioning how the latter has become the widely accepted view.  If anything, it seems like the former is much more likely to me.

 

The latter is the most accepted view because that is where the cannon of the story points, everything with in  Mass Effect Storyline points to the Quarians being openly hostile to the Geth.   So lets remember they have been wondering the stars for 15 generations, after the first 4 or 5 generations those that  lived through the morning star war die of old age.  Now after  the next ten what was once done out mere survival instinct  is now so ingrained into the culture that most don' t even think that peace may be possible.   

[Phil725]

MadCat221 wrote...
*snip*

Shala'raan considers their exile their own mistake. ("We've paid enough for our mistake")  Xen poses her question about her plans in a manner that suggests this is the prevailing opinion as well.

The codex also indicates that both religious and secular-thinking quarians consider their exile partly their own fault.

Koris obviously thinks this way.

Gerrel has a bit of General Ripper to him, though...

Interesting, wasn't aware that it was that widespread.  Obviously it wouldn't be a unanimous opinion, but just hearing that that many people blame themselves over the geth makes peace seem even easier to me.

[CptSkull]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...
*snip*

Hate is not something that is rational  its rather irrational you can hate something just for whatever reason you want.  Hate always is not just a human emotion its universal, the same with love and fear.   When you strip away all the alien sociology   the Asari, Krogan, Humans, Turian, Quarians, and Salarians  run off them same core emotional set what different  is how each race rationalize their actions. 

How each race rationalizes their actions is the key to the entire problem.  Do the quarians regret losing their homeworld based on their actions, or do they blame the geth for taking their homeworld.  I'm more just questioning how the latter has become the widely accepted view.  If anything, it seems like the former is much more likely to me.

 

The latter is the most accepted view because that is where the cannon of the story points, everything with in  Mass Effect Storyline points to the Quarians being openly hostile to the Geth.   So lets remember they have been wondering the stars for 15 generations, after the first 4 or 5 generations those that  lived through the morning star war die of old age.  Now after  the next ten what was once done out mere survival instinct  is now so ingrained into the culture that most don' t even think that peace may be possible.   

And we can't forget that the Quarians are one of the most hated races in Mass Effect .

[Phil725]

nitefyre410 wrote...
*snip*

The latter is the most accepted view because that is where the cannon of the story points, everything with in  Mass Effect Storyline points to the Quarians being openly hostile to the Geth.   So lets remember they have been wondering the stars for 15 generations, after the first 4 or 5 generations those that  lived through the morning star war die of old age.  Now after  the next ten what was once done out mere survival instinct  is now so ingrained into the culture that most don' t even think that peace may be possible.   

The quarians are dealing with half the knowledge that we are, and that's important to keep in mind.  They have a legitimate reason to not think peace is possible, the geth haven't responded to any diplomatic efforts in the past.  Why should they believe peace is possible?  There probably was an admiral who advocated peace with the geth, and he was probably laughed at since it seems ridiculous.  They have reason to dislike all geth as well, because every geth in the galaxy (as far as they know,) is a blood thirsty murderer.  The hostility towards the geth is all the heretics.  The true geth haven't been heard from since the Morning Wars.  Hating the heretics and hating the true geth are different.  They are two completely different species.

[Mazder]

gotta go...Keelah Se'lai

[General Ashous]

That is true, there is a huge difference between the two. The heretics don't really think straight whereas the true geth understand why the quarians did what they did. That is why it would probably have a huge effect in ME3 if Legion was taken to the Migrant Fleet. Unfortunatly, it can't be done without not recruiting Tali until after the suicide mission or leaving people in your crew to die.

[Purification-]

Mazder wrote...

gotta go...Keelah Se'lai

Keelah Se'lai my friend.

[Phil725]

General Ashous wrote...

That is true, there is a huge difference between the two. The heretics don't really think straight whereas the true geth understand why the quarians did what they did. That is why it would probably have a huge effect in ME3 if Legion was taken to the Migrant Fleet. Unfortunatly, it can't be done without not recruiting Tali until after the suicide mission or leaving people in your crew to die.

Bioware put themselves in a corner there.  You either can't get him without sacrificing something else, or you do, and can't say anything about the true geth due to game limitations

[Someone With Mass]

General Ashous wrote...

That is true, there is a huge difference between the two. The heretics don't really think straight whereas the true geth understand why the quarians did what they did. That is why it would probably have a huge effect in ME3 if Legion was taken to the Migrant Fleet. Unfortunatly, it can't be done without not recruiting Tali until after the suicide mission or leaving people in your crew to die.

I've taken Legion to the Migrant Fleet plenty of times without getting the crew killed.