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The Official Migrant Fleet of Tali'Zorah Fans 2.0


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#9551
cannedcream

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Runescapeguy9 wrote...

A final thought before I leave for tonight because of this damn storm outside. Following the whole biblical relationship the ME series has going on, who will be the betrayer? Dun dun dun

Anyhow, Keelah se'lai.


As long as it's not Garrus, Tali, Thane, or Mordin than I'm good. (though I can't honestly see it being any of them).

Miranda would be the most obvious choice (via blackmail about hurting her sister). Maybe Jacob (as one of the 'buddy' characters, it would work). I really can't see anyone else doing it other than those two.

#9552
RedTracer7

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Runescapeguy9 wrote...

A final thought before I leave for tonight because of this damn storm outside. Following the whole biblical relationship the ME series has going on, who will be the betrayer? Dun dun dun

Anyhow, Keelah se'lai.


If you play it straight, I would put my money on Legion/Zaeed/Jacob.
Legion:  Motives still unclear.  If he actually developes emotions (as it seems he was on the cusp in ME2), it could screw with his mission parameters.
Zaeed: He makes it obvious that he works for whomever has the most pay.  If he, say, is selling you out to Cerberus (and not the Reapers), I could see it happening.
Jacob:  Going Renegade and full-on Cerberus could cause him to break away.

If you want to screw with the fans, make it Garrus.
Have Shepard let a Big Bad live for some reason or another, and Garrus would probably have 'Justice is teh awesome' fit.  Would have to be carefully done.

#9553
Andaius20

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I thought the answer is obvious....Hawthorne!

#9554
Guest_Raga_*

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Here 'tis. You actually liked this idea at the time Collider. It's not conventional betrayal. More like Garrus pulling a Carth.



"I think so too. I think we will see some ultimate consequence where you can no longer sway Garrus one way or another. I don't really buy the "Garrus as betrayer" thing so many people do, but I think there is some potential in that idea. In certain circumstances I could see him reacting like Carth does to a Dark Side romanced Revan in KotoR. Carth doesn't really betray you, but he freaks and tries to save you from yourself. Given the devs have said ME3 has room for more variance since nothing has to be imported afterwards I think it is possible we might be able to see some more overtly sinister choices in ME3. If Garrus has been pushed very strongly paragon or renegade and then you go back on that in ME3, I could see him being concerned and trying to do something about it. Trying to save you from yourself as it were. It would make an interesting and fitting culmination to his character arc. We have always been his moral compass. Maybe now it's time for him to become ours."

#9555
Collider

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@CC:
Thane is an assassin who has taken the lives of those he felt did not deserve to live. A Shepard who acts immorally in Thane's eyes may very well be found in Thane's crosshairs.

Samara literally says she'll fight Shepard if s/he is renegade.

Legion is Geth. He cares most about protecting the Geth. If Shepard would destroy the Geth, Legion is going to fight back.

Anyway, I think Garrus pretty much has the least chance of betraying Shepard.

Modifié par Collider, 04 août 2010 - 07:56 .


#9556
Someone With Mass

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Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Yea, just location triggers like they had in DAO. Of course, people spam those, but I don't think it hurts. That's the only realistic way to get all the conversations anyway unless you rotate your party every two minutes and return to camp every five.


People (me included) probably would spam them because they are fun to listen to.

I could ride that elevator on the Citadel up and down about five times before moving on, just to hear everyone's dialogues.

And I enjoyed every second of it.Posted Image

#9557
RedTracer7

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Water Dumple wrote...

I saw a decent template for a small ME3 squad in another thread. Remember that you REQUIRE two teammates to be alive to survive the suicide mission, so it actually works out. You would get them in this order:

Liara T'soni
New Character 1
New Character 2
Ashley/Kaiden
ME2 Survivor 1
ME2 Survivor 2

And perhaps get a choice on who to pick from the ME2 group, assuming you didn't go for a "worst possible playthrough" attempt and only have two left, in which case you wouldn't get a choice.


This is a good plan, but allowing the player to choose the two survivors would force all of the voice acting for every character to be done.  It wouldn't actually cut down on the amount of VA work they would have to do, and I think Bioware would want to get the most out of the VA'ing they do.  So they wouldn't let a major character be optional.

#9558
cannedcream

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Collider wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...


I actually explained a possible Garrus betrayal scenario in the Garrus thread the other day.  Lemme see if I can dig up the post.

I think that Garrus is the least likely to betray Shepard.


Agreed, especially after Sidonis did to his squad.
Garrus would NEVER betray Shepard, not unless he's been lying to us this ENTIRE time.

#9559
Guest_mrsph_*

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I can Zaeed betraying Shepard. Provided the credits are bountiful enough.

#9560
Collider

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Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Here 'tis. You actually liked this idea at the time Collider. It's not conventional betrayal. More like Garrus pulling a Carth.

"I think so too. I think we will see some ultimate consequence where you can no longer sway Garrus one way or another. I don't really buy the "Garrus as betrayer" thing so many people do, but I think there is some potential in that idea. In certain circumstances I could see him reacting like Carth does to a Dark Side romanced Revan in KotoR. Carth doesn't really betray you, but he freaks and tries to save you from yourself. Given the devs have said ME3 has room for more variance since nothing has to be imported afterwards I think it is possible we might be able to see some more overtly sinister choices in ME3. If Garrus has been pushed very strongly paragon or renegade and then you go back on that in ME3, I could see him being concerned and trying to do something about it. Trying to save you from yourself as it were. It would make an interesting and fitting culmination to his character arc. We have always been his moral compass. Maybe now it's time for him to become ours."

I do like it - in fact, it's brilliant. Of course it shouldn't be the only way that Garrus shows that the mentoring affected him, but it's a nice touch.

#9561
cannedcream

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Collider wrote...

@CC:
Thane is an assassin who has taken the lives of those he felt did not deserve to live. A Shepard who acts immorally in Thane's eyes may very well be found in Thane's crosshairs.

Samara literally says she'll fight Shepard if s/he is renegade.

Legion is Geth. He cares most about protecting the Geth. If Shepard would destroy the Geth, Legion is going to fight back.

Anyway, I think Garrus pretty much has the least chance of betraying Shepard.

Maybe, but that's all assuming you play as Renegade, but not Paragon. If there is a betray, it needs to work for both.

Also, Thane only kills those he is hired to. The only exception came as revenge for his wife as Shepard had nothing to do with that, he is safe. Also, since Thane is at the end of his life and no longer accepting contracts, he could not be hired to kill him either way.

#9562
Water Dumple

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Anyway, it's late over here in the liveship, so I'll be off. Save the good discussions for when I'm back.

Gentlemen.

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#9563
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Also: this was follow-up to what I mentioned before. Sorry for wall o' text. They are standard in Garrus thread.



Nilfalasiel wrote...



But that's exactly what I'm saying: it won't always happen. So it won't work as a conclusion to Garrus' story arc for all Shepards. I can't really think of any situation where Garrus would freak out on Shepard the way Alistair does if you spare Loghain, unless it's something completely outrageous like murdering a roomful of hostages for no good reason or something. He might not always agree with what Shepard does, but trusting that she/he knows best will still take him a long way. Garrus does have a tendency to put the goal of the mission first, so as long as Shepard doesn't engage in gratuitous murder, she/he can always justify what she/he does by saying it was for the good of the mission.



Then again, considering ME2 Garrus mysteriously became averse to collateral damage, even if Renegaded in ME1, maybe he would also pipe up if something Shepard does results in too many civilian victims. But still, it would have to be something pretty damn huge and have a measure of the unnecessary about it.



Ragabul wrote...



Right. I'm just saying that in order for a specific culmination for his arc to be in the game it doesn't have to be one that all Shepards would see. Arc for paragon Shep would likely be something else altogether. The devs have said that ME3 will have way more variance.



As for what might specifically set him off, I can't really predict it. But I bet the devs could come up with something if they wanted to. For one thing, part of renegade Shep is pretty pro-human. There could come a point where that finally pushes things too far. It might also be possible for Shep to fall into some kind of Saren-like role, of trying to save the galaxy by weird partnership with something horrid. Unlikely I admit, but possible. Depending on what the "something horrid" was Garrus might snap. On the opposite side, a really paragon Shep that errs on the side of "give everybody the benefit of the doubt" and "killing is not the answer" might set him off in some places if he thought the thing being spared was too big a risk to the galaxy or something. Like imagine if something like the Architect from Awakening showed up. I would not find it a stretch for Garrus to be VERY displeased about sparing something like that. I'm not saying any of this will happen, but I think a scenario like this could be done if the devs wanted it. And I think it would be really interesting.

#9564
cannedcream

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Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Here 'tis. You actually liked this idea at the time Collider. It's not conventional betrayal. More like Garrus pulling a Carth.

"I think so too. I think we will see some ultimate consequence where you can no longer sway Garrus one way or another. I don't really buy the "Garrus as betrayer" thing so many people do, but I think there is some potential in that idea. In certain circumstances I could see him reacting like Carth does to a Dark Side romanced Revan in KotoR. Carth doesn't really betray you, but he freaks and tries to save you from yourself. Given the devs have said ME3 has room for more variance since nothing has to be imported afterwards I think it is possible we might be able to see some more overtly sinister choices in ME3. If Garrus has been pushed very strongly paragon or renegade and then you go back on that in ME3, I could see him being concerned and trying to do something about it. Trying to save you from yourself as it were. It would make an interesting and fitting culmination to his character arc. We have always been his moral compass. Maybe now it's time for him to become ours."


Okay, it that context, it could work.

#9565
RedTracer7

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cannedcream wrote...

Collider wrote...

@CC:
Thane is an assassin who has taken the lives of those he felt did not deserve to live. A Shepard who acts immorally in Thane's eyes may very well be found in Thane's crosshairs.

Samara literally says she'll fight Shepard if s/he is renegade.

Legion is Geth. He cares most about protecting the Geth. If Shepard would destroy the Geth, Legion is going to fight back.

Anyway, I think Garrus pretty much has the least chance of betraying Shepard.

Maybe, but that's all assuming you play as Renegade, but not Paragon. If there is a betray, it needs to work for both.

Also, Thane only kills those he is hired to. The only exception came as revenge for his wife as Shepard had nothing to do with that, he is safe. Also, since Thane is at the end of his life and no longer accepting contracts, he could not be hired to kill him either way.


I don't think a betrayal would have to work for both sides of the Renegade/Paragon playthrough.  In fact, it would make more sense that a different character would snap, depending on how you played.

#9566
Someone With Mass

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cannedcream wrote...

Agreed, especially after Sidonis did to his squad.
Garrus would NEVER betray Shepard, not unless he's been lying to us this ENTIRE time.


Yeah, Sidonis just messed around with Garrus' girl at a party, and they fought about it. Went so bad that both were ashamed of what they did, so they agreed to come up with a way more badass scenario, but Garrus was still pissed about it.
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#9567
Collider

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cannedcream wrote...

Collider wrote...

@CC:
Thane is an assassin who has taken the lives of those he felt did not deserve to live. A Shepard who acts immorally in Thane's eyes may very well be found in Thane's crosshairs.

Samara literally says she'll fight Shepard if s/he is renegade.

Legion is Geth. He cares most about protecting the Geth. If Shepard would destroy the Geth, Legion is going to fight back.

Anyway, I think Garrus pretty much has the least chance of betraying Shepard.

Maybe, but that's all assuming you play as Renegade, but not Paragon. If there is a betray, it needs to work for both.

Oh, a betrayal. I certainly hope they don't do that. I mean you can only have so many Biblical parallels until the story feels a bit predicatable and cheap.

Also, Thane only kills those he is hired to.

Are we certain? I thought he took out Nassanna because he felt like it, but not because he was hired. Either way, he didn't get any money for killing her.

#9568
Kikaimegami

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Legion wouldn't betray Shepard...!

#9569
Andaius20

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Well night folks, nice to see you Kikaister.

#9570
Kikaimegami

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Andaius20 wrote...

Well night folks, nice to see you Kikaister.

Hi!

.....bye!

#9571
Water Dumple

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One guy we know for certain...



"I would never stab you in the back, Shepard. Warriors like you and me? Straight to the face."

#9572
RedTracer7

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Kikaimegami wrote...

Legion wouldn't betray Shepard...!


What if he supports a Quarian war-rampage?

#9573
cannedcream

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Water Dumple wrote...

Anyway, it's late over here in the liveship, so I'll be off. Save the good discussions for when I'm back.

Gentlemen.

Posted Image


Is it weird that, when I saw this picture out of the corner of my eye, I instantly assumed it was Nightmare Tali? :huh:

#9574
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Kikaimegami wrote...

Legion wouldn't betray Shepard...!


I can see either Legion or Tali turning on Shepard if some huge ****-up involving the quarian/geth conflict is made.

#9575
Kikaimegami

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RedTracer7 wrote...

Kikaimegami wrote...

Legion wouldn't betray Shepard...!


What if he supports a Quarian war-rampage?

Addendum: Legion wouldn't betray my Shepard!