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[Kira Shepard]

I just had the wierdest urge just now to do a one shot about manipulative renegade shepard/tali with the main guideline coming from the quote "Admiration is the state furthest away from understanding". I think I'm a bad person...

[Collider]

Why not direct anger at the quarian ancestors? Is my question. Who is responsible for the Morning War is a key factor towards feelings on the geth.

Well the thing is, while we may speculate that they should or would direct hate at the Quarian ancestors (which I expect they wouldn't do anyway because due to their ancestor worship roots), we don't have any real evidence of it. Maybe Korris, but I always got the impression that his opinion was rather unorthodox in Quarian culture.

As far as not being able to go back, that's exactly why I say there is hate for the geth now. Remove that feeling of never going back, and you have no more reason to hate that person you mention.

...except for the fact that they had nearly exterminated your race and were the biggest part of the reason why the mess had even started in the first place.

[cannedcream]

Collider wrote...


I know, I just don't like the idea of having to use charm or intimidate for a happy ending, lol.

No! Shepard will change fate with only his RAW FURY!!!!

He's gonna intimidate the **** out of destiny! :ph34r::ph34r:

[Collider]

cannedcream wrote...

Collider wrote...


I know, I just don't like the idea of having to use charm or intimidate for a happy ending, lol.

No! Shepard will change fate with only his RAW FURY!!!!

He's gonna intimidate the **** out of destiny! :ph34r::ph34r:

I was thinking of a scenario as was described where I had to use charm to continue romancing Tali.

And I had problem with charm/intimidate in ME2.

[Water Dumple]

Phil725 wrote...

cannedcream wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

This is the assumption that everyone makes.  Where do we learn that children are taught to hate the geth?  Tali is the most extreme example, an admiral father who hates the geth, with a mom that died because of their position in life.  She's in the 99 percentile for geth hating reasons.

While they may not be taught to 'hate' the geth, it's still a part of their history and so it stands to reason that learn of it in school. And if I were to tell you that once we all used to live in this wonderful place that you'll never get to see because this group drove us out, wouldn't you start to hate that group even if you've never met them?
In fact, there would probably be that hate BECAUSE you've never met them.

You realize you made the same assumption that I said everyone makes in my post right?

I just don't see how we know that the 'who' is important to the quarians.  They know that they lost Rannoch because of the Morning War, and that they can't go back now until the geth are dealt with.  That alone is why the quarians are against the geth now.  Because they're standing in their way.  It isn't deep seeded hatred that will linger on for generations.  Its the necessity of now.  They need a home, and the geth are living in theirs.

The Geth have not in fact overrun the homeworld; as the Legion says, the Geth stay in orbit to take resources from asteroids. They only keep several Geth platforms on the homeworld to care for the Quarian graves left from the Morning War. Furthermore, the non-Heretics state that they are open to peace if "new data was received that indicated peace is possible or desirable for creators". Remember that the Legion is the only non-Heretic platform sent beyond the Veil, and its programs "do not intend physical harm upon the creator-Quarians at this time".  So far, that makes a 100% approval rating for ceasefire from the regular Geth. It's the Quarians who need to take a risk and attempt communications with the Geth at the homeworld; the Legion notes that the Quarians have attacked 100% of the time when they thought they could win.

Of course, most Quarians are completely conditioned to believe that all Geth are like the heretics, even after the Legion helps retake the Alarei for them. Korris is one of the only authoritative figures who thinks otherwise.

[Megumeru]

Happy ending?



I find that option to be rather out of reach...

The best ending I can thought of is Shepard sacrificing himself (and maybe his crew) to save the galaxy, and that is something I pray Bioware doesn't pull

[cannedcream]

Megumeru wrote...


But I enjoy writing stories or mini fics about things Tali-related.

I did draw myself a line not to touch character death though...


Give me a minute while I try to soak up the topic, then discuss away.

Good to have guidelines or else you end up with. . . well. . . my reputation.

[Phil725]

Collider wrote...

Because we don't actually see this. We see hate towards the Geth, but only Korris is openly hateful or disliking towards those who shut down the Geth in the first place. Based upon that, I'd think dislike towards the Geth is more likely.

We don't see anything really about quarians thoughts on the Morning War that I recall.  Definitely nothing about them blaming the geth.  We see hate for the geth in game based on the necessity of now, not based on the Morning War.

Collider wrote...

I really doubt that. Tali came with prejudice against Geth. Somehow I don't think she's going to start hating Geth when she did not simply because they started attacking a human colony.

She came with prejudice against the geth because all her life she/the quarians have been fighting those geth.  I'm not arguing that quarians don't have a problem with the heretics, because they did.  They wanted them all wiped out, and that wish came true.  Treating Tali's opinions towards the geth as an opinion towards a new species doesn't do anything though.

Collider wrote...

What exactly are we arguing here? My entire point was that I do not see the dislike at the Geth disappearing over night - it's going to linger to some amount.

Extent of hate is what I'm arguing.  I believe that once the geth give up Rannoch and go off to live in their asteroid cluster, the quarians hate will be majorily gone.  Others believe that it will still fester, leading to conflict down the road, or that the hate will be so much in the first place that it blinds them of the opportunity of reclamation.  I believe neither of the latter personally.

[Snazzy Penguin]

Collider wrote...

cannedcream wrote...

Collider wrote...


I know, I just don't like the idea of having to use charm or intimidate for a happy ending, lol.

No! Shepard will change fate with only his RAW FURY!!!!

He's gonna intimidate the **** out of destiny! :ph34r::ph34r:

I was thinking of a scenario as was described where I had to use charm to continue romancing Tali.

And I had problem with charm/intimidate in ME2.

Yea. Thinking about it further, I doubt that would happen in ME3, because looking at ME1 and ME2, you didn't need to have use charm or intimidate to persue a relationship, or keep it for those who cheated on their ME1 LI in ME2.

[cannedcream]

Collider wrote...

I was thinking of a scenario as was described where I had to use charm to continue romancing Tali.

And I had problem with charm/intimidate in ME2.

How so?

[Phil725]

RiptideX1090 wrote...
*snip*
I honestly don't think the quarians would be against peace as a whole, or that most of them even would hold a grudge or be openly hostile to the geth.

Anyone in here ever gotten in fights?

Yeah, you beat eachother senseless, but more often than not, you later realize how stupid you both were. You either shake hands and start over, or let it fester.

Some of the closest people I've known are people whose noses I broke.

You just have to man up and get over yourselves.

And governments and peoples do this all the time too. I doubt it will be a big issue. All Shepard has to do is get the Admirals and the geth to work out a place to start.

I like the fight comparison, seems very appropriate to me.  Both species want to move on.  The only reason its a question is because a friend of the person you fought has been egging you on since the fight to re fight that guy.

[Kira Shepard]

Runescapeguy9 wrote...

Kira Shepard wrote...
 I think I'm a bad person...

I agree. I just had the urge to punch you and I didn't do anything, can you do the same?

And suddenly I want to do nothing else.

[Collider]

Water Dumple wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

cannedcream wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

This is the assumption that everyone makes.  Where do we learn that children are taught to hate the geth?  Tali is the most extreme example, an admiral father who hates the geth, with a mom that died because of their position in life.  She's in the 99 percentile for geth hating reasons.

While they may not be taught to 'hate' the geth, it's still a part of their history and so it stands to reason that learn of it in school. And if I were to tell you that once we all used to live in this wonderful place that you'll never get to see because this group drove us out, wouldn't you start to hate that group even if you've never met them?
In fact, there would probably be that hate BECAUSE you've never met them.

You realize you made the same assumption that I said everyone makes in my post right?

I just don't see how we know that the 'who' is important to the quarians.  They know that they lost Rannoch because of the Morning War, and that they can't go back now until the geth are dealt with.  That alone is why the quarians are against the geth now.  Because they're standing in their way.  It isn't deep seeded hatred that will linger on for generations.  Its the necessity of now.  They need a home, and the geth are living in theirs.

The Geth have not in fact overrun the homeworld; as the Legion says, the Geth stay in orbit to take resources from asteroids. They only keep several Geth platforms on the homeworld to care for the Quarian graves left from the Morning War. Furthermore, the non-Heretics state that they are open to peace if "new data was received that indicated peace is possible or desirable for creators". Remember that the Legion is the only non-Heretic platform sent beyond the Veil, and its programs "do not intend physical harm upon the creator-Quarians at this time".  So far, that makes a 100% approval rating for ceasefire from the regular Geth. It's the Quarians who need to take a risk and attempt communications with the Geth at the homeworld; the Legion notes that the Quarians have attacked 100% of the time when they thought they could win.

I'd have to disagree. It's up to the Geth to demonstrate to the Quarians that they are peaceful. Why? Because the Geth shoot down any foreign ship that enters their territory.. You cant negotiate peace if you're dead.

[cannedcream]

Megumeru wrote...

Happy ending?

I find that option to be rather out of reach...
The best ending I can thought of is Shepard sacrificing himself (and maybe his crew) to save the galaxy, and that is something I pray Bioware doesn't pull

Is it so wrong, after all the crap Shepard has been through, to want to see him have a happy ending?

It's been a long path to walk only to find it it's all lose/lose.

[Phil725]

cannedcream wrote...

Phil725 wrote...


Why not direct anger at the quarian ancestors?  Is my question.  Who is responsible for the Morning War is a key factor towards feelings on the geth. 

As far as not being able to go back, that's exactly why I say there is hate for the geth now.  Remove that feeling of never going back, and you have no more reason to hate that person you mention.

I'm not entirely sure why we've been butting heads since we seem to share the same view. . .

Honestly?  I have no idea, I'm just trying to type really fast to keep up

I'd assume its the extent of hate argument, and whether or not it will actually obstruct peace or not.

[Megumeru]

cannedcream wrote...

Megumeru wrote...


But I enjoy writing stories or mini fics about things Tali-related.

I did draw myself a line not to touch character death though...


Give me a minute while I try to soak up the topic, then discuss away.

Good to have guidelines or else you end up with. . . well. . . my reputation.

Borrowed Time? Yep, I've read that...
touching and emotional. Though most of the time after a reread the conclusion would always end up Joker finding the two *eep* in the planet.

Drifting is lovely. Romantic, subtle, but depressing at one point.

[Collider]

cannedcream wrote...

Collider wrote...
I was thinking of a scenario as was described where I had to use charm to continue romancing Tali.

And I had problem with charm/intimidate in ME2.

How so?

For one thing, having paragon or renegade points as prerequisites for charm/intimidate is stupid. Sometimes I want to tell Jack that she shouldn't kill Aresh, it's not worth it. Sometimes I want to tell the Admiralty Board they can go **** themselves, and to leave Tali out of their politics. However, I often cannot use charm or intimidate, even when I believe it's in character for my Shepard, because I was not "paragon" or "renegade" enough. Ideally, ME3 should have a system like Dragon Age, or at least ME1.

[Phil725]

Collider wrote...
*snip*
...except for the fact that they had nearly exterminated your race and were the biggest part of the reason why the mess had even started in the first place.

It seems we're going in complete circles here.  My entire point is that people assume the quarians blame the geth for slaughtering their people, and I see no evidence for it in game. 

May just have to leave it up to agree to disagree, but quarian hatred of the geth based on cause of the Morning War is not a canon emotion.  Its popular fan opinion.

[Snazzy Penguin]

Runescapeguy9 wrote...

cannedcream wrote...
Is it so wrong, after all the crap Shepard has been through, to want to see him have a happy ending?

It's been a long path to walk only to find it it's all lose/lose.

Coming from you, the wishing for a happy ending really does mean something.
Hear this bioware? Write it.

If Bioware losely following the Star Wars Trillogy, then ME3 is likely to have a "Happy Ending" option.

My version of the Happy Ending is Shepard and Tali living in a nice house somewhere in senic Rannoch, hopeful for the future. With a sequence saying what happened to everyone significant who survived the Reaper war. Though THAT is just wishful thinking.

[cannedcream]

Phil725 wrote...
Honestly?  I have no idea, I'm just trying to type really fast to keep up

I'd assume its the extent of hate argument, and whether or not it will actually obstruct peace or not.

Do we. . . do we hug it out? 

Anyway, in short; CC wants peace. As much as he loves the quarians he believes that they were wrong, however these were the sins of the fathers and the time has come to stop the children from paying for them. The winds of change are'a blowin'.

[Collider]

cannedcream wrote...

Megumeru wrote...

Happy ending?

I find that option to be rather out of reach...
The best ending I can thought of is Shepard sacrificing himself (and maybe his crew) to save the galaxy, and that is something I pray Bioware doesn't pull

Is it so wrong, after all the crap Shepard has been through, to want to see him have a happy ending?

It's been a long path to walk only to find it it's all lose/lose.

I agree - having Shepard invariably sacrifice himself is just lame. I can understand something like that if it happened in another game, that wasn't a trilogy. Shepard dying at the end is kind of like Luke or Han Solo dying at the end of Star Wars. I'd go "why the **** did I watch these movies/play these games?"