18744 réponses à ce sujet

[Collider]

Phil725 wrote...

Collider wrote...
*snip*
But they don't command the same amount of power and political standing.

Why not?  They have the power, they have the population,

Definitely not. The other races have been traveling in space for millenia. Their populations are exponentially larger. Dwarving human populations - especially after the Collector thing.

they have the ability to protect the races not able to protect themselves.  The only reason to deny them the power is a bias that they need to serve for a certain amount of time.  They can do anything the salarians or asari can do.

I don't think they're ready.

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Modifié par Collider, 06 août 2010 - 08:10 .

[Phil725]

Collider wrote...
*snip*
For your Shepard maybe. Unless you may to say that perhaps Bioware would not have such wildly different scenarios.

Yeah, I would never let my Shep fail enough to get Tali exiled personally, but they aren't going to make ME3 1.0 where Tali is an admiral, and ME3 1.1 where Tali is on the team.  She's either there in both, or gone in both, and writing an exiled Tali off the Normandy is impossible to be done believably.

[uhdnrt]

Phil725 wrote...
If its after the trial, that just makes me think even more that its supposed to contrast with what is said when she is exiled.  I recall the captain of the Rayya in general having some pretty nasty things to say.

Only if she gets exiled - he has always had nice things to say (if he is the guy that "arrests" Tali at the entrance).  If that is the correct person I am thinking of, Tali already knows him as Captain - and she still thinks her father is alive.

[Phil725]

Megumeru wrote...
*snip*

The new captain of the Rayya.
The other one was KIA in Alerei.

Where does it say this?  Unless you mean Rael, and even then, its not stated anywhere what ship he even serves on, let alone that he is the captain of it.

[Megumeru]

RedTracer7 wrote...

Megumeru wrote...

Technically, yes.
But that wouldn't stop her from following him...or loving him for that matter

Tali: *Suggestive Gesture*

Shepard:  Aww... come on, Tali.  We just got back from that mission.  I don't have quarian-level endurance...

Tali:  That's an order.

Shepard: 

:wub:INDEED

If Rip is reading this page, there will be a rant about dominatrix Tali coming up in seconds...

Tali: Would you like me to teach you what rank and order meant to the quarians, commander?

Shepard: :OYES MAAM!

[Collider]

Phil725 wrote...

Collider wrote...
*snip*
For your Shepard maybe. Unless you may to say that perhaps Bioware would not have such wildly different scenarios.

Yeah, I would never let my Shep fail enough to get Tali exiled personally, but they aren't going to make ME3 1.0 where Tali is an admiral, and ME3 1.1 where Tali is on the team.  She's either there in both, or gone in both, and writing an exiled Tali off the Normandy is impossible to be done believably.

I would say it depends on how it's done. Something like what mrsph proposed could be very plausible or practical.

[Phil725]

Collider wrote...
*snip*
Definitely not. The other races have been traveling in space for millenia. Their populations are exponentially larger. Dwarving human populations - especially after the Collector thing.

Is this supported anywhere?  And the collectors knocked the human population down a few hundred thousand.  Not even worth mentioning with the 10+ billion back on Earth.

Collider wrote...

I don't think they're ready.

Based on what if I may ask?

[Megumeru]

Phil725 wrote...

Megumeru wrote...
*snip*

The new captain of the Rayya.
The other one was KIA in Alerei.

Where does it say this?  Unless you mean Rael, and even then, its not stated anywhere what ship he even serves on, let alone that he is the captain of it.

I'm assuming Rael is the captain of the Rayya. An Admiral is one of the highest rank a fleet officer could achieve. Noting that Tali was named in ME1 as Tali'Zorah nar Rayya meant she was born in the Rayya.

And, as Rael is assumed to be the highest in command of the Rayya, that technically made him the captain of the ship

[uhdnrt]

mrsph wrote...

Captain of the Rayya: Get off my ship, Tali.

Is this said if she is exiled?  I wouldn't know, that has never happened in my playthroughs.

[cannedcream]

uhdnrt wrote...
Aaaaaaand, this is what I was expecting.  Thousands of Turians and asari died in that battle - that point is moot.  Shepard was granted the honor of being the first human spectre, an important step and a show of belief from the council that humanity is ready for galacic politics.  However: They never should have been given a council seat.  Itw as bad writing on Bioware's part.  If you saved the council, humanity should have been given accolades, and have th council more willing to listen to them.  But allowed to join them?  No.  The galaxies political landscape was already volatile enough with humanities emergence.  So much so that one of the most powerful races in the galaxy left the galactic union - just about declaring civil war.  And upgrading the terminus systems from a group of non-unified colonies to an actual threat to galactic stability.

As we can see from ME2, [i]even if you were ht e most Paragon that ever Paragoned, the Citadel is a powderkeg ready to ignite into true civil war.  And it is humanities fault, sad as it is to say.

A true Paragon ending in ME1 would have been for Shepard to recommend that humanity not have a seat on the council - humanity isn;t ready, and the galaxy isn't ready for such a step either.

Yeah, yeah and just how long would humanity have left with just their 'accolades'?

How long would humanity have been passed over time and time again until such a point where everyone had forgotten the things that they had gone for a galaxy that seemed to go out of it's way to push the new guy down and keep him down?

It's politics. It's nothing but egos. You have three like-minded individuals who are reluctant to let ANYONE into their little clique because they knew it will keep them from constantly getting their way.

I respect your beliefs, but respect the fact that I FIRMLY believe that humanity has earned that spot. I could have just as easily let them all die and have humanity take it's place as sole ruler, but I didn't. I could have given the Reaper base to TIM and once again secured humanity as the highest power, and didn't. I don't think any one race should be in charge, but I believe that we earned our right to have a say in the galaxy.

[Megumeru]

mrsph wrote...

Captain of the Rayya: Get off my ship, Tali.

If it is the Quarian captain that greets Shepard and Tali, I'm assuming he is not in command of the entire ship.

The rank of 'captain' in the Marines and the Navy (or Fleet, in this case) is different, with the Captain of the fleet holding more calls than the other.
The Quarian that greets them, I assume, is the captain of the guards stationed in the Rayya. Its his expression to say 'get off my workspace'

Same thing how police officers say to their captive, 'get off my station'

[RedTracer7]

uhdnrt wrote...
]Aaaaaaand, this is what I was expecting.  Thousands of Turians and asari died in that battle - that point is moot.  Shepard was granted the honor of being the first human spectre, an important step and a show of belief from the council that humanity is ready for galacic politics.  However: They never should have been given a council seat.  Itw as bad writing on Bioware's part.  If you saved the council, humanity should have been given accolades, and have th council more willing to listen to them.  But allowed to join them?  No.  The galaxies political landscape was already volatile enough with humanities emergence.  So much so that one of the most powerful races in the galaxy left the galactic union - just about declaring civil war.  And upgrading the terminus systems from a group of non-unified colonies to an actual threat to galactic stability.

As we can see from ME2, even if you were ht e most Paragon that ever Paragoned, the Citadel is a powderkeg ready to ignite into true civil war.  And it is humanities fault, sad as it is to say.

A true Paragon ending in ME1 would have been for Shepard to recommend that humanity not have a seat on the council - humanity isn;t ready, and the galaxy isn't ready for such a step either.

If your continued existence can be attributed to a single race, you have to give them more than "accolades".  You need to give them a say in galactic matters.  That is not to say that Shepard's actions alone constitute why Humanity should have a spot on the Council.  In twenty years, Humanity has expanded incredibly quickly.  We are settling in the Traverse, in the Terminus... basically everywhere the Council said they could not control.  We are expanding Council Space, we are protecting the Council itself, we are building a trans-galactic trading network.  In twenty years, we are a match for any xeno-industry, except in biotic amps.  

To deny a massive, growing power is to ask for disaster.  You say that the Council-political position is already a powderkeg.  Well to ignore the burning match that is humanity's inevitable rise is to demand that that powderkeg explode.

[i]I would rather take a simmering resentment over an explosive war when humanity is denied its rightful place in the galaxy.

[uhdnrt]

Megumeru wrote...

I'm assuming Rael is the captain of the Rayya. An Admiral is one of the highest rank a fleet officer could achieve. Noting that Tali was named in ME1 as Tali'Zorah nar Rayya meant she was born in the Rayya.

And, as Rael is assumed to be the highest in command of the Rayya, that technically made him the captain of the ship

I think you are incorrect.  IIRC, the Captain you speak to on entering the Flotilla IS the captain of the Rayya.  And Tali acknowledges him as such.  And, if acquited, also tells her she will always have a home on the Rayya.  So if Tali already acknowledges him as a Captain, without the knowledge her father is dead, then I think they either changed which ship Rael was serving on or that Admiralty does not necessarily go with Captainship.

[Collider]

Is this supported anywhere? And the collectors knocked the human population down a few hundred thousand. Not even worth mentioning with the 10+ billion back on Earth.

I'm sure there's something in the game that mentions it, because again I don't think I'd think it otherwise. Anyway, it stands to reason that a race that had been spread across the galaxy for thousands of years would have larger population than a race that has only been out on the galactic scene for less than 50 years.

Based on what if I may ask?

Because they've just met aliens. Humanity doesn't know enough, it's not experienced enough. Two people may have the same powerful gun, but if one person was been practicing for far longer, then they are probably the more trustworthy, rather than the person who has just picked it up.

[Phil725]

Megumeru wrote...
*snip*
I'm assuming Rael is the captain of the Rayya. An Admiral is one of the highest rank a fleet officer could achieve. Noting that Tali was named in ME1 as Tali'Zorah nar Rayya meant she was born in the Rayya.

And, as Rael is assumed to be the highest in command of the Rayya, that technically made him the captain of the ship

I just don't recall it being stated anywhere that a requirement for admiral was being captain of your own ship.  I could have sworn that somewhere it mentions that the captain we see in game was there for a while before.

[cannedcream]

mrsph wrote...

Yeah, the captain is a huge dick to Tali if she get's exiled.

That son of a-

Next time I see him, I'm punching him for that thing he almost-sorta-could have done!

[Megumeru]

RedTracer7 wrote...

uhdnrt wrote...
]Aaaaaaand, this is what I was expecting.  Thousands of Turians and asari died in that battle - that point is moot.  Shepard was granted the honor of being the first human spectre, an important step and a show of belief from the council that humanity is ready for galacic politics.  However: They never should have been given a council seat.  Itw as bad writing on Bioware's part.  If you saved the council, humanity should have been given accolades, and have th council more willing to listen to them.  But allowed to join them?  No.  The galaxies political landscape was already volatile enough with humanities emergence.  So much so that one of the most powerful races in the galaxy left the galactic union - just about declaring civil war.  And upgrading the terminus systems from a group of non-unified colonies to an actual threat to galactic stability.

As we can see from ME2, even if you were ht e most Paragon that ever Paragoned, the Citadel is a powderkeg ready to ignite into true civil war.  And it is humanities fault, sad as it is to say.

A true Paragon ending in ME1 would have been for Shepard to recommend that humanity not have a seat on the council - humanity isn;t ready, and the galaxy isn't ready for such a step either.

If your continued existence can be attributed to a single race, you have to give them more than "accolades".  You need to give them a say in galactic matters.  That is not to say that Shepard's actions alone constitute why Humanity should have a spot on the Council.  In twenty years, Humanity has expanded incredibly quickly.  We are settling in the Traverse, in the Terminus... basically everywhere the Council said they could not control.  We are expanding Council Space, we are protecting the Council itself, we are building a trans-galactic trading network.  In twenty years, we are a match for any xeno-industry, except in biotic amps.  

To deny a massive, growing power is to ask for disaster.  You say that the Council-political position is already a powderkeg.  Well to ignore the burning match that is humanity's inevitable rise is to demand that that powderkeg explode.

[i]I would rather take a simmering resentment over an explosive war when humanity is denied its rightful place in the galaxy.

Eeeh...I'd prefer the latter. Humanity can't face 5 different races alone and win.

[RedTracer7]

Megumeru wrote...

:wub:INDEED

If Rip is reading this page, there will be a rant about dominatrix Tali coming up in seconds...

Tali: Would you like me to teach you what rank and order meant to the quarians, commander?

Shepard: :OYES MAAM!

Tali: The disciplinary actions taken against insubordination on the Fleet are severe.  

Shepard:  Bring it on. 

[RedTracer7]

uhdnrt wrote...

Megumeru wrote...

I'm assuming Rael is the captain of the Rayya. An Admiral is one of the highest rank a fleet officer could achieve. Noting that Tali was named in ME1 as Tali'Zorah nar Rayya meant she was born in the Rayya.

And, as Rael is assumed to be the highest in command of the Rayya, that technically made him the captain of the ship

I think you are incorrect.  IIRC, the Captain you speak to on entering the Flotilla IS the captain of the Rayya.  And Tali acknowledges him as such.  And, if acquited, also tells her she will always have a home on the Rayya.  So if Tali already acknowledges him as a Captain, without the knowledge her father is dead, then I think they either changed which ship Rael was serving on or that Admiralty does not necessarily go with Captainship.

Also, having the Admiral automatically be the Captain would remove that ship's ability to interact with the Conclave.

[Megumeru]

uhdnrt wrote...

Megumeru wrote...

I'm assuming Rael is the captain of the Rayya. An Admiral is one of the highest rank a fleet officer could achieve. Noting that Tali was named in ME1 as Tali'Zorah nar Rayya meant she was born in the Rayya.

And, as Rael is assumed to be the highest in command of the Rayya, that technically made him the captain of the ship

I think you are incorrect.  IIRC, the Captain you speak to on entering the Flotilla IS the captain of the Rayya.  And Tali acknowledges him as such.  And, if acquited, also tells her she will always have a home on the Rayya.  So if Tali already acknowledges him as a Captain, without the knowledge her father is dead, then I think they either changed which ship Rael was serving on or that Admiralty does not necessarily go with Captainship.

I believe Tali is accepting the figure as a captain is him being a part of either the:

a) guards captain
Marines

Either those. The ship entirely is, what I believe, is under Rael'Zorah. vas Rayya. Han'Gerrel was an admiral, but is also the captain of the Neema. Him being the highest ranking officer in the Neema made him commanding officer of the ship.