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[mikethor007]

Phil725 wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
*snip*
It's an incredibly patient (and from Tali's arguments, frustratingly so) strategy for the quarians to take, but I don't see their quicker approaches doing them much good. Meeting Legion and learning about the true Geth gives way too much hope for the fans who do want to see Tali visit her homeworld, though. Bioware taking the easy way out, perhaps?

I never did like the easy way out.
*snip*

Just to comment on this, I don't really see how the geth being open to peace is the easy way out.  What motivation do the geth have for staying on Rannoch anyway?  Its surprising to me that they've stayed as long as they have.  I would have expected them to disappear through a random relay and go to some far away asteroid rich system and work in peace far away from organics there.

It's essentially what they intend once the Dyson sphere is complete. They intend to isolate themselves.

Anyone guess what'll be the design change for Tali in ME3? If any?

[Kalashnikov]

Phil725 wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
*snip*
It's an incredibly patient (and from Tali's arguments, frustratingly so) strategy for the quarians to take, but I don't see their quicker approaches doing them much good. Meeting Legion and learning about the true Geth gives way too much hope for the fans who do want to see Tali visit her homeworld, though. Bioware taking the easy way out, perhaps?

I never did like the easy way out.
*snip*

Just to comment on this, I don't really see how the geth being open to peace is the easy way out.  What motivation do the geth have for staying on Rannoch anyway?  Its surprising to me that they've stayed as long as they have.  I would have expected them to disappear through a random relay and go to some far away asteroid rich system and work in peace far away from organics there.

i was thinking the exact same thing phil, but i think the geth are staying there because one; it could technically be considered their homeworld too, and they probably just want the quarians to remain on the flotilla (because as to my knowledge the quarians immune systems are accustomed to rannoch)

[nitefyre410]

Pacifien wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...
I personally for one  think the quarians should first focus more on  genetically getting the immune systems boosted.  A fleet of some of the best  salvager's,  programmers, and ship mechanics in galaxy someone  needs those kind of skills somewhere. Yeah you'll have to get you hands dirty and bloody but  in the long term it will be  easier to settle a new world if you can get immune system issue resolved first

It's an incredibly patient (and from Tali's arguments, frustratingly so) strategy for the quarians to take, but I don't see their quicker approaches doing them much good. Meeting Legion and learning about the true Geth gives way too much hope for the fans who do want to see Tali visit her homeworld, though. Bioware taking the easy way out, perhaps?

I never did like the easy way out.

I recently argued in the Campaign and Storyline forum that the complete crash of the quarian immune system was the fault of their dependence on the suits. I could see the suits being a precaution if the ship they were on had constant threat of hull breach or electronic failure. But I see the dangers of what overloading antibiotics in place of using one's own immune system does to humans. Fear of losing what few survivors they had probably hurt them more than risking their immune systems to harsher situations.

Anyway, what you get by settling on a new world is a chance to build but the threat of attack in a place like the Terminus Systems. What you get by continuing with the Migrant Fleet is a more static population, but a stronger defense.

 

Nothing worth having is easily obtained I say.  

The stronger defense of  the fleet is true but shake considering that most of those ships are  being held together by spit and duct tape  and the majority being live, supply and food  ships. I don't see them holding their own  in a fight with the other powers in galaxy especially the  Alliance the first things we would attack would be  food ships and supple ships.  Cut the support lines and let  all the other ships just  wither from starvation, mutiny and  what ever else would happen. 

[Phil725]

mikethor007 wrote...
*snip*
It's essentially what they intend once the Dyson sphere is complete. They intend to isolate themselves.

Anyone guess what'll be the design change for Tali in ME3? If any?

I don't see much of a design change happening, since I don't expect much/any time to elapse between ME2/3.  The changes from 1 to 2 made sense because it was 2 years.  Hard to justify any major changes when ME2 just happened plot wise (assuming they do go that way.)

[Pacifien]

Phil725 wrote...
Just to comment on this, I don't really see how the geth being open to peace is the easy way out.  What motivation do the geth have for staying on Rannoch anyway?  Its surprising to me that they've stayed as long as they have.  I would have expected them to disappear through a random relay and go to some far away asteroid rich system and work in peace far away from organics there.

Well, as I said earlier, I could see the geth actually suffering a schism over the thought of peace with the quarians. They've already learned the meaning of betrayal and subterfuge from the Heretics. Safer to defend their position from outside threat.

As for what motivations the geth have for staying around Rannoch, it's probably much like Shepard asking why Legion used his armor to fix itself. They don't know why. We don't know if they'd leave.

[Kalashnikov]

Pacifien wrote...

Phil725 wrote...
Just to comment on this, I don't really see how the geth being open to peace is the easy way out.  What motivation do the geth have for staying on Rannoch anyway?  Its surprising to me that they've stayed as long as they have.  I would have expected them to disappear through a random relay and go to some far away asteroid rich system and work in peace far away from organics there.

Well, as I said earlier, I could see the geth actually suffering a schism over the thought of peace with the quarians. They've already learned the meaning of betrayal and subterfuge from the Heretics. Safer to defend their position from outside threat.

As for what motivations the geth have for staying around Rannoch, it's probably much like Shepard asking why Legion used his armor to fix itself. They don't know why. We don't know if they'd leave.

you're implying the geth aren't as sapient as we think they are

[Phil725]

Shavon wrote...

Hey, so how the heck is Tali supposed to know about the mining laser on Therum? She never left Engineering, not once after I recruited her. That's pretty silly they put stuff like that in the game. Also, my renegade Shep, Tali hated, by the end of ME1, so why would she *ever* wish Shepard was with her during her recruitment mission?

Tali in ME2 is one big retcon.

Game limitation on one hand, they couldn't right completely different characters based on how you played ME1 because its not feasible from a money perspective.

As far as a legitimate explanation, ME1 takes place over several months, and you see 3 conversations between the two.  Maybe Tali and Shep were good friends and chatting off screen behind your back

[nitefyre410]

Pacifien wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...
One Hit insta Ice cube...hmmm me  as a Vanguard, Tali  one hit insta freezes I come in with a  heavy Charge.  This I like, it has weight.   

Which is why almost all the vanguard strategy guides say go squad cryo. A shattered enemy is quite satisfying.

 

heh I picked up the assault rifle on the collector ship gave my self some range and learned crowd control with Shockwave.    Tali, Garrus and  My Shep put in much work.

[Pacifien]

Shavon wrote...
Hey, so how the heck is Tali supposed to know about the mining laser on Therum? She never left Engineering, not once after I recruited her. That's pretty silly they put stuff like that in the game. Also, my renegade Shep, Tali hated, by the end of ME1, so why would she *ever* wish Shepard was with her during her recruitment mission?

Tali in ME2 is one big retcon.

Well, you could be a dick to everyone in ME1 and they still talk about how they would have followed you to their own graves. Shepard is a Reaper. Shepard indoctrinates.

Besides, just because someone doesn't go on the mission doesn't mean they weren't there for the debriefing of the mission.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Shavon wrote...

Hey, so how the heck is Tali supposed to know about the mining laser on Therum? She never left Engineering, not once after I recruited her. That's pretty silly they put stuff like that in the game. Also, my renegade Shep, Tali hated, by the end of ME1, so why would she *ever* wish Shepard was with her during her recruitment mission?

Tali in ME2 is one big retcon.

You expect the game to keep track of who you take on missions?  The save file is less than a megabyte

[Phil725]

Kalashnikov wrote...
*snip*
i was thinking the exact same thing phil, but i think the geth are staying there because one; it could technically be considered their homeworld too, and they probably just want the quarians to remain on the flotilla (because as to my knowledge the quarians immune systems are accustomed to rannoch)

The believing it to be their home as well is actually what I've thought about in the past.  Legion seems to deny this (calling Rannoch ice and gas or whatever,) but there has to be some kind of explanation for them staying there, and a misunderstood emotional connection is one possibilty.

Of course, it complicates things greatly if that is the case, since it gives the geth a reason to stay.

[Pacifien]

Kalashnikov wrote...
you're implying the geth aren't as sapient as we think they are

Ha! I have always advocated a level of sapience for the geth, but I also have discussed in detail how the geth process information is truly alien to human comprehension. But I don't think everyone really paid attention to my Geth AB/Geth ABC/Geth AC gestalt consciousness essays. Maybe I should retry. In the Legion thread.

[Phil725]

Pacifien wrote...
*snip*
Well, as I said earlier, I could see the geth actually suffering a schism over the thought of peace with the quarians. They've already learned the meaning of betrayal and subterfuge from the Heretics. Safer to defend their position from outside threat.

As for what motivations the geth have for staying around Rannoch, it's probably much like Shepard asking why Legion used his armor to fix itself. They don't know why. We don't know if they'd leave.

We don't know if they would leave, true, but I would have a hard time believing that a logically thinking AI race would pass up the chance for safety in exchange of a superfluous ball of rock.  And I definitely wouldn't see it as fanservice if they went that way.  That was the only point I was trying to make really, the geth in general are a pretty big unknown.

[RiptideX1090]

Shavon wrote...

Hey, so how the heck is Tali supposed to know about the mining laser on Therum? She never left Engineering, not once after I recruited her. That's pretty silly they put stuff like that in the game. Also, my renegade Shep, Tali hated, by the end of ME1, so why would she *ever* wish Shepard was with her during her recruitment mission?

Tali in ME2 is one big retcon.

The explanation it whatever you want it to be. Does Tali see a heart of gold under the cruelest of Renegades? Is she in love with the idea of loving Shepard? Or maybe she just doesn't care. She wouldn't be the first person to enter an abusive relationship where the other person continually screws you over. It's really up to you.

As for the mining laser, maybe she talked to the people who went down with Shepard. You can find an explanation for anything, just takes some imagination.

[Pacifien]

Phil725 wrote...
We don't know if they would leave, true, but I would have a hard time believing that a logically thinking AI race would pass up the chance for safety in exchange of a superfluous ball of rock.  And I definitely wouldn't see it as fanservice if they went that way.  That was the only point I was trying to make really, the geth in general are a pretty big unknown.

There's also something to be said for just how you could even get the entire Migrant Fleet to support peace. And it seems entirely dependent on the geth leaving completely. Get the geth saying "You can return to your homeworld. We are staying," and we don't much have the easy way out again.

Anyway, even getting to the point of discussing peace I can imagine would have to be done in secret. There will be quarians who would sacrifice their own souls to make sure the geth pay for the atrocities of the past. Get open public meetings, you set yourself up for terrorist action.

Modifié par Pacifien, 29 juillet 2010 - 12:33 .

[Water Dumple]

Anybody find it odd that despite the problem with Quarians getting infected from stray shots in battle when their shields are down, Tali works just as normally as any other squadmate even after a suit rupture? A nice way to make the squadmate unique would be to give her loads of extra shields, but suffer an infection if shot while the shields were broken, which would deal constant damage unless Medi-Gel was used.

I came up with ways to make all the other squadmates unique like that, but they would probably fit better in their own thread.

Also, I approve of staying on-topic.

Modifié par Water Dumple, 29 juillet 2010 - 12:34 .

[Ormagodenator]

Shavon wrote...

Hey, so how the heck is Tali supposed to know about the mining laser on Therum? She never left Engineering, not once after I recruited her. That's pretty silly they put stuff like that in the game. Also, my renegade Shep, Tali hated, by the end of ME1, so why would she *ever* wish Shepard was with her during her recruitment mission?

Tali in ME2 is one big retcon.

1: Tali can read minds
2: alot of girls like bad boys

[Purification-]

I have one topic:

How you guys think that the relationship between Quarians and The Geth if Quarians did return to their homeland without a war?

[Kalashnikov]

Pacifien wrote...

Phil725 wrote...
We don't know if they would leave, true, but I would have a hard time believing that a logically thinking AI race would pass up the chance for safety in exchange of a superfluous ball of rock.  And I definitely wouldn't see it as fanservice if they went that way.  That was the only point I was trying to make really, the geth in general are a pretty big unknown.

There's also something to be said for just how you could get the entire Migrant Fleet to support peace. And it seems entirely dependent on the geth leaving completely. Get the geth saying "You can return to your homeworld. We are staying," and we don't much have the easy way out again.

Anyway, even getting to the point of discussing peace I can imagine would have to be done in secret. There will be quarians who would sacrifice their own souls to make sure the geth pay for the atrocities of the past. Get open public meetings, you set yourself up for terrorist action.

and here again is where i will state that i believe it is the result of the quarians immaturity that the geth war has escalated to this level. if they tried dealing with them DIPLOMATICALLY instead of panicking and initiating conflict this whole situation with the flotilla could have been avoided. this is obviosuly why the council denied assistance to the quarians in the first place

Modifié par Kalashnikov, 29 juillet 2010 - 12:37 .