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[Collider]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Collider wrote...

We have actually have more of an insight into the Quarian world through Tali, the Quarian sidequests, and Tali's loyalty mission, than most other races.

This.  I mean, seriously, what do we really know about turians?  Garrus isn't doing half the job Tali is in that regard.

Forgot also to mention that we learn some things about the Quarians from Legion, too.

The Turians are actually my favorite race. We do actually get to learn a few things about them. They're rigid thinkers who pride themselves on maintaining strict regulations - which in their culture includes social and military service to the state - and are shoot first, ask questions later. I would say they are more balanced than the Krogan.

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Modifié par Collider, 07 août 2010 - 05:03 .

[Lividity Jones]

RedTracer7 wrote...

Collider wrote...

Lol, Grunt kind of just increased the "Proud Warrior Race" stereotype involved with the Krogan. He did not really develop them, just added to their somewhat one dimensionalness. Now Okeer...I liked that guy. Would have loved to have him on the squad.

We agree.  Loved Okeer.  His entire philosophy was a fresh take on the Genocide situation.  I wish we had a Morinith/Samara kind of choice to decide who we got.

But it also fits Okeer's personality perfectly for him to die protecting that which he sees as perfect.

Agreed. Lost alot of potential there, but it was appropriate.

[Kikaimegami]

Hey now, I like Grunt His childlike glee about anything and everything is awesome.

[SpaceBuscuit]

MajesticJazz wrote...

SpaceBuscuit wrote...


I agree there were missed opportunities in ME2, but Tali's development was still signficant. She was a lot less childlike. In most situtatuions, she seemed very mature and assured, yet still had that vulnerability that made her accessible. Plus, her accent and mannerisms were even sexier than in ME1. And she did expand upon the Quarians to some extent. Her loyalty mission on the Migrant Fleet in introduced us to Quarian politics, and their differing opinios on Quarians and the Geth. I personally felt that ME2 left Tali a much more rounded and believable character, not to mention even more loveable.

I understand that she was "more mature" in ME2 just like Garrus was "more darker" in ME2 but in the core, they were essentially THE SAME characters. As for Tali's loyalty mission, well that isn't really anything unique as they could have used another Quarian for that mission. I mean again, in ME1 she was very usefull but it just irks me that Bioware had to go the "American Idol" route and use the "fan vote" to bring back certain squad members. Who to have as a party member should be left to the writers, not popular fan opinion. I wanted Wrex back in ME2 as a party member, but after playing ME2 and seeing Wrex's role, I'm glad they didn't.

If Tali was more mature, and Garrus was darker, what's wrong with that? Isn't that just character development? Perhaps they did those characters back because the fans took to them, but doesn't that just mean that they were well-designed characters to begin with? If you're intending to write a trilogy, then it makes sense to have some continuity between the chapters, and if you listen to your fans, why not bring back the characters that they formed the greatest affinity with. There's nothing "American Idol" about it. Garrus and Tali are popular precisely because they are well-written and relatable characters that people can form an attachment toward.

[NuclearBuddha]

RedTracer7 wrote...
We agree.  Loved Okeer.  His entire philosophy was a fresh take on the Genocide situation.  I wish we had a Morinith/Samara kind of choice to decide who we got.

But it also fits Okeer's personality perfectly for him to die protecting that which he sees as perfect.

Okeer didn't quite die to protect Grunt.  He died to clear out the old so that the new could rise.  It's the krogan way.

[MajesticJazz]

RobotNixon wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...

Kira Shepard wrote...
That's your opinion and you are entitled to it, chap.

This is why even today, Quarians like Golo remains far more interesting.

Personally I'd rather have people I can trust and are emotionally invested in on my team than a couple of new people who are there for the sole purpose of teaching me about things that could be easily covered in the Codex or in a novel.

Again, that is why having Garrus and Tali back as teammates really messed up the whole ME2 theme of Shepard being alone and "nobody believing him". Even though it irks me, I like how people like Ash/Kaiden and even Anderson sort of distant themselves from Shepard and throughout the whole game. The whole them of ME2 was to try to show how the galaxy can be a cruel place and how it feels to be "lonely" thus making the alliance with Cerberus more essential because out of all the people in the galaxy, the ONLY ones who believes him and is ready to fight with him is technically....terriorist [Cerberus]. But Bioware had to break this theme by throwing in Garrus and Tali who just jump up in joy and trust Shepard and all that jazz.

I know you are all Tali fans and no matter what I say, you're going to defend her because that is what you do, you're Tali fans the same way I am a Legion fan, but atleast I'm willing to see reason in Legion and I'm not going to defend him all the time just because he is my favorite character.

[RobotNixon]

mrsph wrote...

Grunt's character development. He goes from I want to kill everyone all the time. To I want to kill everyone part of the time and Shepard is cool now.

Grunt is like my Shepard's adopted son. His character development coincides with my own.

[Collider]

Kikaimegami wrote...

Hey now, I like Grunt His childlike glee about anything and everything is awesome.

I also liked Grunt, but in the context of this discussion he himself didn't really expand on the Krogans that much.

[Kikaimegami]

Collider wrote...

Kikaimegami wrote...

Hey now, I like Grunt His childlike glee about anything and everything is awesome.

I also liked Grunt, but in the context of this discussion he himself didn't really expand on the Krogans that much.

His loyalty mission did.

[Collider]

RedTracer7 wrote...

Collider wrote...

Lol, Grunt kind of just increased the "Proud Warrior Race" stereotype involved with the Krogan. He did not really develop them, just added to their somewhat one dimensionalness. Now Okeer...I liked that guy. Would have loved to have him on the squad.

We agree.  Loved Okeer.  His entire philosophy was a fresh take on the Genocide situation.  I wish we had a Morinith/Samara kind of choice to decide who we got.

I'd definitely pick Okeer.

[RedTracer7]

MajesticJazz wrote...
Again, that is why having Garrus and Tali back as teammates really messed up the whole ME2 theme of Shepard being alone and "nobody believing him". Even though it irks me, I like how people like Ash/Kaiden and even Anderson sort of distant themselves from Shepard and throughout the whole game. The whole them of ME2 was to try to show how the galaxy can be a cruel place and how it feels to be "lonely" thus making the alliance with Cerberus more essential because out of all the people in the galaxy, the ONLY ones who believes him and is ready to fight with him is technically....terriorist [Cerberus]. But Bioware had to break this theme by throwing in Garrus and Tali who just jump up in joy and trust Shepard and all that jazz.

I know you are all Tali fans and no matter what I say, you're going to defend her because that is what you do, you're Tali fans the same way I am a Legion fan, but atleast I'm willing to see reason in Legion and I'm not going to defend him all the time just because he is my favorite character.

We do not defend Tali because of an unwavering love of her character.

We love Tali because she does not need our unwavering defense.

[Collider]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

RobotNixon wrote...

Collider wrote...

Lol, Grunt kind of just increased the "Proud Warrior Race" stereotype involved with the Krogan. He did not really develop them, just added to their somewhat one dimensionalness. Now Okeer...I liked that guy. Would have loved to have him on the squad.

I know, it would be nice to have someone convincingly influence my Shepard do something Renegade.

Zaeed talked me into filling Elnora with lead.

Elnora took out a gun on me. I didn't need convincing.

[CptSkull]

As Collider said, Legion did give us insight on the Qurians, so I feel no opportunities were lost, except the one where Legion is recruited towards the end of the game.

[NuclearBuddha]

Collider wrote...
The Turians are actually my favorite race. We do actually get to learn a few things about them. They're rigid thinkers who pride themselves on maintaining strict regulations - which in their culture includes social and military service to the state - and are shoot first, ask questions later. I would say they are more balanced than the Krogan.

I have this theory that turians and humans are more alike than either wants to admit and that's part of the reason they've butted heads so strongly.

[RobotNixon]

MajesticJazz wrote...
I know you are all Tali fans and no matter what I say, you're going to defend her because that is what you do, you're Tali fans the same way I am a Legion fan, but atleast I'm willing to see reason in Legion and I'm not going to defend him all the time just because he is my favorite character.

Then you realize there's really no point in arguing, so go back from whence you came.

[Kikaimegami]

Wait, wait, there's another Legion fan in the thread?

[Collider]

Phil725 wrote...

Collider wrote...
Lol, Grunt kind of just increased the "Proud Warrior Race" stereotype involved with the Krogan. He did not really develop them, just added to their somewhat one dimensionalness. Now Okeer...I liked that guy. Would have loved to have him on the squad.

Agreed, its a shame that they went with Grunt IMO.  Okeer could have been a great character

Yea...He was so different from the other Krogans.

[Lividity Jones]

Kikaimegami wrote...

Wait, wait, there's another Legion fan in the thread?

Quick! Seperate them before they breed!

[NuclearBuddha]

Collider wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

RobotNixon wrote...
I know, it would be nice to have someone convincingly influence my Shepard do something Renegade.

Zaeed talked me into filling Elnora with lead.

Elnora took out a gun on me. I didn't need convincing.

I let Fist live.  I'm pretty easygoing even when there are guns involved.

[Kikaimegami]

CptSkull wrote...

As Collider said, Legion did give us insight on the Qurians, so I feel no opportunities were lost, except the one where Legion is recruited towards the end of the game.

Arrrgh yes. Thank god for save editors

[Collider]

Kikaimegami wrote...

Collider wrote...

Kikaimegami wrote...
Hey now, I like Grunt His childlike glee about anything and everything is awesome.

I also liked Grunt, but in the context of this discussion he himself didn't really expand on the Krogans that much.

His loyalty mission did.

Yea, but I was meaning more himself.

[RobotNixon]

Kikaimegami wrote...

Wait, wait, there's another Legion fan in the thread?

*shifts feet*
*stares at ground*
*hides Geth Armory belt buckle*

[Kikaimegami]

Lividity Jones wrote...

Kikaimegami wrote...

Wait, wait, there's another Legion fan in the thread?

Quick! Seperate them before they breed!

Legion fans don't breed because that'd require sexytimes with.. well.. organics.

[RobotNixon]

Lividity Jones wrote...

Kikaimegami wrote...

Wait, wait, there's another Legion fan in the thread?

Quick! Seperate them before they breed!

Robots can't breed.

[Lividity Jones]

Kikaimegami wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...

Kikaimegami wrote...

Wait, wait, there's another Legion fan in the thread?

Quick! Seperate them before they breed!

Legion fans don't breed because that'd require sexytimes with.. well.. organics.

Uhh...

Before they...

...Replicate?