57 réponses à ce sujet

[awesomeogre]

what attributes should i increase first im gonna use only light armor pick locks and use longbows

[Elhanan]

I prefer STR 38 to wear heavy armor, Cunning 30 to open all locks and disarm all traps w/ Deft Hands (4), Willpower ca.30, and the rest into DEX; Magic and CON are not needed. Even if you only want to wear light armor, the bonuses to Longbow are determined from 1/2 DEX and STR unless you wish to invest in Lethality, and I find that tier a tad anemic in play.

Try and get Rapid Aim on at least one item; maybe more as such bonuses to RoF may stack.

[Last Darkness]

^In continuing what Elhanan stated.



Try and get Farsong in Red Cliff, easily best Longbow in game and grab Repeater Gloves from Return to Ostagar. Also dont forget the maintained ability "AIm" doules your Crit chance and it is possible to get 100% crit this way easy.

[ncknck]

Dex only. It gives attack, damage, defence and allows to use bows. Raising STR beyond 20 is... questionable to say the least. Same with every other stat.

[Elhanan]

No question that Overwhelm, Grab, and other various attacks can shred a light amored design from Origin to Epilogue. This is the main reason I attempted this design the first time.

And a STR of 38+ will not only allow dmg bonuses, but also grants the use of shields when things get too close and personal.

[ncknck]

Now you are listing some random abilities which an archer isnt ever in danger of being affected by and pump a pretty pointless stat such as Str as a defence, which has no effect in protection against those abilities and suggest to use a shield, which unequips the bow and restricts all archer talents, to get like 10 extra def(which would be achieved anyway by just raising dex). It makes no sense. Am i missing something maybe?

Modifié par ncknck, 29 juillet 2010 - 09:30 .

[Elhanan]

Yep. STR allows for more armor, which prevents damage at the cost of Defense spent on DEX.

As I recall, to become really advantagious in Defense requires a score above 100; maybe 120+? This may be quite good at the end of the game, but does not help much around the Origin stage. And as an Edit: I do not believe if Defense even aids with such tactics at all.

And since Overwhelm, Grab, and like effects are seen in opponents from spiders, dogs, dragons, Ogres, werewolves, Shrieks, etc, I would not call this too random since we see them the entire game.

The Shield use is simply a bonus, as there are some very nice ones in the game and do not require any talent investment to utilize; just STR. Sure you lose the bow, which is why I said "too close and personal". While an experienced Player may know where all these random attacks may be, I still forget the locations of every critter that tackles and bites.

Modifié par Elhanan, 29 juillet 2010 - 11:01 .

[ElectricWizard]

you're not supposed to wear heavy armour as an archer, you're never supposed to be getting hit.



I think you're missing the point of an archer.

[Elhanan]

ElectricWizard wrote...

you're not supposed to wear heavy armour as an archer, you're never supposed to be getting hit.

I think you're missing the point of an archer.

Possibly, but I am not a Player that wishes to run around kiting the enemy when I could be killing the enemy.

What I believe an archer could be may not fit into the mold some seem to have in their visions. This does not mean it ceases to be an archer; 'tis only another design. And it is one that has worked for me quite well, which is the reason I continue to offer it.

And since the Master Archer talent seems to be made for such functionality, so I believe I am in good company.

[Sallul]

When I first read your post El I was like wait a minute, but you have good reasons for what you believe and I think I'll be taking my Dwarf Noble rogue down this path as pumping nothing but dex is decent, but since the only bow you should be using is Far Song anyways, and longbows get bonuses from both str and dex, and str allows more defense and the use of more heavy armor<at least 2 sets I can think of have stam regen or negate fatigue effects of using it> I see no reason to go with your build.

[Last Darkness]

To clarify what Elhanan is trying to explain.

He suggests getting Str to 38 so you can equip far better armor so you have a better armor score, this is differant than defense. As it simply makes the damage you take when you get hit reduced.

Also for Longbows Str adds to damage and attack score at the same rate Dex does so this isnt a full waste(I may be wroung on Attack score for, rogues I know it works for warriors)

The reasoning behind this is because the game AI focuses on two varibles, whoever is doing the most damage and the current controlled party member IE your Warden. Most people on here are theory crafting with the incorrect assumption your never going to be attacked, or compairing game mechanics to real life situations, these are just plain wroung. As a added info tip those abilities Elhanan suggested are 100% hit, extremly high damage attacks. No matter what you do besides not being targeted for them will make you avoid them. Also as far as Defense scores go you need 90 total defense to be pretty much unhitable by all normal enemies and 160 total defense to be unhitable by everything except automatic hit attacks or warriors using perfect striking (Ser Cauthrine comes to mind) So his reasoning is completly solid, its based on game mechanics.

I just disagree with the number 38 and would go with 28-31 instead and abuse +attributes items to get higher str for gear requirments then remove the + attributes items. Lol



Anyways hope this clears some things up.

[ncknck]

This thread is going sadder and sadder by a minute. Archers with shields tanking dragons, mobs going after controlled character, equipping heavy armor to avoid aggro, 90def is total protection, *shakes head*

[EvilGod]

first of all u have 2 archers in the game ..
warrior archer >> SUX
rouge archer >> is what u should play
for stats for rouge archer u need :
20 STR / 30 CUN / 20 WP / MAX DEX
the 20 STR is must so u can get that superior drake set which i see is the best set for any rouge in the game
the 30 CUN so u can open any damn lock in the game hardest lock need 30 CUN and no point to make a rouge and ignor lock picking
MAX DEX is for ur main dmg thing DEX is the only stat that effect the piercing dmg
20 WP coz archer skills like Arrow of Slaying use a lot of stamina while u will gonna move with 2 sustaineds on u at the start and then with 1 sustained when u get the last bow in game Far Song
and make sure u pick the Lethality skill so the game start to use the CUN modifier instead of using STR

Modifié par EvilGod, 30 juillet 2010 - 02:39 .

[BLunted]

not to be sassy, but if you are playing on either PS3 or the 360, I would avoid playing an archer all together. Bows have been broken on consoles since day one. Short/longbows only get a 30% attribute modifier from str/dex(or cun if lethality) opposed to the 50% PC users get.



It's kind of a waste.

[soteria]

As I see it, the downside to raising strength high enough to wear heavy armor is that you waste a lot of stats. If you're a rogue, you still want 30 cunning for locks, but you're also raising strength by roughly the same amount (depending on what gear you wear). Whether or not a given character needs the extra armor can only be determined by each individual player. It depends on how you play the game. I'll just say that raising strength to 38 is inefficient on a rogue and leave it at that.

Also as far as Defense scores go you need 90 total defense to be pretty much unhitable by all normal enemies and 160 total defense to be unhitable by everything except automatic hit attacks or warriors using perfect strikin...

At 90 defense, you'll still get hit more than half the time, as most normal enemies have an attack of 85-95. At 160, you're largely unhittable, yes, but Ser Cauthrien, with an attack of ~120, will still hit you at least 10% of the time. Of course, any time you're stunned, you lose that dexterity bonus to defense.

In response to the comments about defense not being valuable below 100: technically speaking, any bonus to defense is equally valuable or worthless at any point in the game (well, except for extremes). 1 defense = 1% chance to dodge. Raising dexterity on a character with 60 defense might be called "worthless" because a character that gets hit 80-90% of the time should be avoiding front-line combat in any case, and changing that range to 77-87% wouldn't change anything. It's not that defense becomes more valuable above 100 or 120, it's that characters with really low defense try to avoid letting their defense rating become an issue at all.

[BLunted]

EvilGod wrote...

first of all u have 2 archers in the game ..
warrior archer >> SUX
rouge archer >> is what u should play
for stats for rouge archer u need :
20 STR / 30 CUN / 20 WP / MAX DEX
the 20 STR is must so u can get that superior drake set which i see is the best set for any rouge in the game
the 30 CUN so u can open any damn lock in the game hardest lock need 30 CUN and no point to make a rouge and ignor lock picking
MAX DEX is for ur main dmg thing DEX is the only stat that effect the piercing dmg
20 WP coz archer skills like Arrow of Slaying use a lot of stamina while u will gonna move with 2 sustaineds on u at the start and then with 1 sustained when u get the last bow in game Far Song
and make sure u pick the Lethality skill so the game start to use the CUN modifier instead of using STR

Actually, I made a warrior archer for sh*ts and giggles and wasn't that bad. The blood talent acts as a layer of haste which stacked well with aim. Not to mention making a "spirit warrior" archer in Awakening was insane.

[Last Darkness]

ncknck wrote...

This thread is going sadder and sadder by a minute. Archers with shields tanking dragons, mobs going after controlled character, equipping heavy armor to avoid aggro, 90def is total protection, *shakes head*

Way to overreact there, is this your first forum?




*Edit* @Soteria I think I remember reading a post by you or Random70 that stated that about 90 defense was pretty much rarly hitable by white mobs and around 160+ was unhitable(In essence) by everything except auto hit.

Modifié par Last Darkness, 30 juillet 2010 - 04:39 .

[EvilGod]

about the warrior archer i said its bad idea coz .. the main warrior skills does not suit the archer job at all, the rouge ones are so far peter, same time i think having a rouge in ur party is a must .. try to play with no rouges at all and u will gonna lose around 40% of the money in the game coz u will have no lock picking or pick pocket believe me i have both on Lelliana and i can get 5 or 6 rare items from the shops and still end the game with +150 gold ... so if u will play with healer + tanker + rogue .. u will have 1 free spot to add ... at nightmare lvl it will be like hell if u have no AOE with u and u cant make all ur party at melee range or the mage and archer mobs will gonna eat u alive ...

and as a matter of fact something i tested .. the rouge archer do around +20% more dmg than the warrior archer coz that skill Lethality while warrior archer will have a very poor STR and CUN

[BLunted]

EvilGod wrote...

about the warrior archer i said its bad idea coz .. the main warrior skills does not suit the archer job at all, the rouge ones are so far peter, same time i think having a rouge in ur party is a must .. try to play with no rouges at all and u will gonna lose around 40% of the money in the game coz u will have no lock picking or pick pocket believe me i have both on Lelliana and i can get 5 or 6 rare items from the shops and still end the game with +150 gold ... so if u will play with healer + tanker + rogue .. u will have 1 free spot to add ... at nightmare lvl it will be like hell if u have no AOE with u and u cant make all ur party at melee range or the mage and archer mobs will gonna eat u alive ...
and as a matter of fact something i tested .. the rouge archer do around +20% more dmg than the warrior archer coz that skill Lethality while warrior archer will have a very poor STR and CUN

guess you didn't notice the "sh*ts and giggles" part...yes, from a min/max POV, rogues are better.

[EvilGod]

god i missed that part yeah hehehe i will remember not to post and read when i just wake up my bad hehehehe

[beancounter501]

On the whole str vs dex thing it is all about trade offs. Going to 38 str costs you 18 points in dex. Dmg will be the same, attack rating will be the same, physical resistance will be the same. Adding 18 points of str will drop your defense by 18 points, but it will allow you to wear some very nice gear. Like Evon the Great Mail + Wade's Superior Dragon Scale. Which has an AR around 28. Much higher then the best light which I comes in around 18. And completely blows the Wade's Superior Drakeskin out of the water - since that only has an AR of 13.



Plus, it is easy to make up 18 points of defense. Turn on defensive fire to get +30 and if you really want to be nasty, turn on Suppressing fire. It is easy to debuff someone's attack rating by 20 to 40 points with that. So my personal opinion is an archer has lots of means to boost his defense (more then enough to offset the 18 points loss due to dex), but no way to boost his armor rating.



But like Soteria said, it is more a personal choice. Both are good. Neither one is going to make an awesome archer. At least until Awakening. Some of us just don't like being squishy.



As for Warrior Archer vs Rogue archer. Neither are particularly amazing. I lean more towards the Rogue one simply for utility of traps/stealth/locks. For a Warrior Archer Blood Thirst can boost your crit rating by 20% with Aim and you can also use the Reaver talent Blood Rage which works with Bows. Just make sure you turn that off when someone tries to melee you! But once you hit Awakening a Spirit Warrior/Archer combo is brutal. Easily outclass any Rogue Archer.

[soteria]

Last Darkness wrote...

@Soteria I think I remember reading a post by you or Random70 that stated that about 90 defense was pretty much rarly hitable by white mobs and around 160+ was unhitable(In essence) by everything except auto hit.

Hmm. If I said that, I was wrong, and I apologize. 160+, yes, that's more or less unhittable, but 90, no. 90 defense is around 50% evasion against non-elite enemies.

beancounter501 wrote...

But once you hit Awakening a Spirit Warrior/Archer combo is brutal. Easily outclass any Rogue Archer.

Normally, yeah. Some enemies have high spirit resistance, though, such as the Mother. I got halfway through that fight before noticing that I was only doing around half the damage I should have been doing. Setting up a hex or two to boost damage is brutal, but frankly, I almost never got the chance. Scattershot just killed everyone.

A last comment on the str build for a rogue: other than being somewhat inefficient, the main reason I don't raise str and wear heavy armor on a rogue is that this is an RPG and that's just not the way I think a rogue should feel. It's a flavor thing. If I'm going to put someone in heavy armor, it's a warrior.

[EvilGod]

Question:

why u will gonna give ur archer 38 STR ????

there is some facts that ppl always forget ..

1- the heavier the armor .. the more mana and stamina u drain for ur skills and less stamina/mana regen in combat

2- archer an archer character rouge/warrior use too much stamina for there archery skills while they need to move on with 2 sustained open till u get that Far Song bow at the end so they get a raped aim enchant instead of using the rapid aim sustained.

3- archer need at least for minimum required stats : 20 STR / 30 CUN (if u r a rouge) / 20 WP / MAX DEX .... if u gonna have 38 STR so that means u will take those 18 points from the DEX which is very very bad thing.

4- why bad ??? coz there is a big deferent between physical dmg and piercing dmg i know bows have a STR modifier to add dmg yes but that STR thing wont gonna help ur arrow to piercing through heavy armor mobs .. while DEX is the main and the only stats for the piercing effect on the armor ... so dont ever compare a bow dmg with a blade dmg ... STR = armor penetration while DEX = armor piercing dmg

5- finally... why u need to have an archer with heavy armor ???? archer cant tank and normally if u play good no one will gonna reach ur archer .. 20 STR are more than enough to use the superior drake set which is the best rouge/archer set ever in the game ... the only set that have DEX on it

[ncknck]

beancounter501 wrote...

So my personal opinion is an archer has lots of means to boost his defense (more then enough to offset the 18 points loss due to dex), but no way to boost his armor rating.

since dex defence is an absolute value added, one can never have enough of it. the more there is, the more valuable it becomes, up to a point, where a single point in dex will halve the received damage. Immunity to debuffs (like miasma&Co, enemies love to cast it) and no reliance on buffs is another thing. Devensive fire? Suppressive fire? Even ommiting that it reduces DPS where will the stamina come from to compensate. An archer has barely enough to sustain critical abilities already. Thats an additional investment in WIL, so its not just 18 points. (or an act of desperation, which is not quite a regular tactic). Boosting Armor is hardly a primary goal for a ranged char. I would much rather care for physprot first(knockback? stun?). an archer has also no way to boost his magic score but thats not a reason to seek to boost it, right. He simply doesnt need it. Unless for tanking dragons. A valid tactic(...) but hardly common. Thus, an archer gets everything he needs from DEX, and investing in other stats is probably possible, sure why not, but exotic.

Modifié par ncknck, 30 juillet 2010 - 04:13 .

[ElectricWizard]

no no no.





you don't wear heavy armour as an ARCHER.



I realise that from a roleplaying perspective you can, but the game is not DESIGNED for that to be the case



if you play the game "as intended" (I use that term lightly), your WARRIORS keep the aggro on themselves, with talents like Taunt and Threaten, and HEAVY ARMOUR.



An Archer doesn't NEED to kite... I have an archer character that doesn't ever actually get ATTACKED because I have light armour and the mobs see me as less of a threat and leave me alone. Not to mention the archer talents take a long time to activate and cost a lot of stamina, if you equip heavy armour on an archer, it won't make it any easier to fight things, your talents will cost more stamina so you will have to sit there and auto attack which we all know is useless when using a bow.