Modifié par EvilGod, 30 juillet 2010 - 04:29 .
Archer Question
Débuté par
awesomeogre
, juil. 28 2010 11:53
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#27
Posté 30 juillet 2010 - 04:32
EvilGod
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hahahhaaaa been saying that for the last 2 days but some ppl are really hard to be convicedElectricWizard wrote...
Not to mention the archer talents take a long time to activate and cost a lot of stamina, if you equip heavy armour on an archer, it won't make it any easier to fight things, your talents will cost more stamina so you will have to sit there and auto attack which we all know is useless when using a bow.
Modifié par EvilGod, 30 juillet 2010 - 04:33 .
#29
Posté 30 juillet 2010 - 04:35
EvilGod
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OMG why the that i have 2 empty posts ???
how i can remove them ???
how i can remove them ???
#30
Posté 30 juillet 2010 - 04:35
DWSmiley
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Agreed. Wearing heavy armor should have come with a penalty to stealth and defense. It didn't but my rogue will continue to float like a butterfly and sting like a bee.soteria wrote...
A last comment on the str build for a rogue: other than being somewhat inefficient, the main reason I don't raise str and wear heavy armor on a rogue is that this is an RPG and that's just not the way I think a rogue should feel. It's a flavor thing. If I'm going to put someone in heavy armor, it's a warrior.
#31
Posté 30 juillet 2010 - 05:40
beancounter501
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Sigh. Where to begin. Lets start - defense. First, defense gives you diminishing returns. A defense of 160 will make you completely immune to virtually every normal attack. A defense of 140 will stop the majority of normal attacks from any white mob. I really don't care if I get hit once every 10 attacks or once every 15 attacks. Neither is going to kill me. However, certain attacks will hit no matter what. You can cheat and pump your defense to 500 and Overwhelm will still hit. Only health/armor/healing spells will save you from Overwhelm. And there are lots of things that can Overwhelm you. I am happy to trade 18 points of defense for some added protection against Overwhelm. Besides, by switching to Defense Fire combined with Suppressing Fire I can easily push by defense into that unhittable range. And you should almost always run Suppressing Fire. You can combo that with Rapid Fire/Aim/Defensive Fire depending on the circumstances. But Suppressing Fire can completely neutralize any melee Yello or Boss mob.
Besides the cooldown on Aim is extremely low, so you can start with Aim, then switch to Defensive Fire if you draw agro from some really nasty critter and then back to Aim once the monster is dead. Does it hurt DPS to switch to Defenisve Fire - sure. But lets face it Archers are not exactly DPS monsters. And if you really want DPS, your Rogue should ditch the bow and start Backstabbing.
On the subject of heavy armor - the Devs clearly intended an Archer to wear Heavy Armor. The game will hit you with a massive penalty if you wear massive or heavy armor. But after Master Archer the penalty for Heavy Armor is dropped, but it still remains for Massive. You may not like it for Role Playing reasons, but your personal RP reasons are not really a convincing argument.
On the subject of talents and fatigue - there are only two talents worth using unless you mod your game - Scatter Shot and AoS. You know you can turn off Aim and Defenseive Fire, use both AoS & Scatter Shot and then turn your sustains back on? Free stamina. The cooldown is so long on both that the battle will be over before they are ready to use again. The rest of the talents stink because it takes 3 seconds to use them. Unlike most other builds Archers really don't get a lot of mileage of Stamina. Except for the two talents I listed above you are almost always better of auto attacking.
On the subject of a Strength Rogue - The devs also intended this build to be viable. They even added a Specialization in Awakening that is geared for one. Again - you may not like it for Role Play, but I think it is fine. Sort of a Thugish type character. Besides, I would rather not return to the world of D&D where certain classes had to built in exact way. I have played enough of the stero typed builds over my lifetime.
@Evil - please stop saying Superior Drakeskin is the best Light Armor. It is not even remotely close to being the best light armor.
@Smiley - I would agree that massive armor should have some Stealth Penalty. But it does not. At the same time I don't think Dex should have given a full point of defense and Daggers should not have pulled Dmg from Dex. Again, my personal opinion - but that is not how the game is.
Besides the cooldown on Aim is extremely low, so you can start with Aim, then switch to Defensive Fire if you draw agro from some really nasty critter and then back to Aim once the monster is dead. Does it hurt DPS to switch to Defenisve Fire - sure. But lets face it Archers are not exactly DPS monsters. And if you really want DPS, your Rogue should ditch the bow and start Backstabbing.
On the subject of heavy armor - the Devs clearly intended an Archer to wear Heavy Armor. The game will hit you with a massive penalty if you wear massive or heavy armor. But after Master Archer the penalty for Heavy Armor is dropped, but it still remains for Massive. You may not like it for Role Playing reasons, but your personal RP reasons are not really a convincing argument.
On the subject of talents and fatigue - there are only two talents worth using unless you mod your game - Scatter Shot and AoS. You know you can turn off Aim and Defenseive Fire, use both AoS & Scatter Shot and then turn your sustains back on? Free stamina. The cooldown is so long on both that the battle will be over before they are ready to use again. The rest of the talents stink because it takes 3 seconds to use them. Unlike most other builds Archers really don't get a lot of mileage of Stamina. Except for the two talents I listed above you are almost always better of auto attacking.
On the subject of a Strength Rogue - The devs also intended this build to be viable. They even added a Specialization in Awakening that is geared for one. Again - you may not like it for Role Play, but I think it is fine. Sort of a Thugish type character. Besides, I would rather not return to the world of D&D where certain classes had to built in exact way. I have played enough of the stero typed builds over my lifetime.
@Evil - please stop saying Superior Drakeskin is the best Light Armor. It is not even remotely close to being the best light armor.
@Smiley - I would agree that massive armor should have some Stealth Penalty. But it does not. At the same time I don't think Dex should have given a full point of defense and Daggers should not have pulled Dmg from Dex. Again, my personal opinion - but that is not how the game is.
#32
Posté 30 juillet 2010 - 05:49
soteria
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EvilGod wrote...
5- finally... why u need to have an archer with heavy armor ???? archer cant tank and normally if u play good no one will gonna reach ur archer .. 20 STR are more than enough to use the superior drake set which is the best rouge/archer set ever in the game ... the only set that have DEX on it
Is that what you think?
I couldn't resist... (spoiler warning if you follow the link). Archers can tank all right if you want them to. They're not that great for handling dragons or ogres, but otherwise a warrior archer can tank well enough.ncknck wrote...
since dex defence is an absolute value added, one can never have enough of it. the more there is, the more valuable it becomes, up to a point, where a single point in dex will halve the received damage
While technically true, when you're talking about the difference between dodging 98% and 99% of the time, I'm not sure how many people care that they just doubled their avoidance. Besides, a single scattershot, shield pummel, or dirty fighting will tremendously reduce your defense. The two most dangerous physical attacks in the game--overwhelm and scattershot--completely ignore defense, and the latter affects ranged attackers as well as melee. The stamina problem is something to consider, certainly, but I wouldn't say archers care that much about using specials in the first place. As long as you can open the fight with AoS and Scattershot and then activate all your sustains, what does it matter?
As I said, I wouldn't personally equip heavy armor on a rogue, but I feel compelled to point out the facts in this case.
Edit: and beancounter beats me to the punch. We pretty much said the exact same things anyway.
Modifié par soteria, 30 juillet 2010 - 05:52 .
#33
Posté 30 juillet 2010 - 06:07
EvilGod
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soteria wrote...
Archers can tank
guys i can make my mage tank if i want to and set Alistair as a DPS and make sten a 1H weapon warrior with no shield just the weapon
Mage = DPS / Healer / CC
Rouge/Archer = DPS
Warrior = DPS / Tanker
those r the rules ....
u dont want to stick with them u r all free its ur play style but that does not mean that its the correct thing
#34
Posté 30 juillet 2010 - 06:23
Elhanan
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My first Warden - a Rogue archer that used Massive armor, a lesser bow, and S&S - taught me a few things:
* I never noticed the RoF penalties, but did notice the RoF increase on later builds. Live and learn; and use walkthroughs.
* Still killed the bosses, though Far Song would have been faster.
* Fatigue was not a problem; many sets are Fatigue Friendly, and I happened to choose one of those.
* Agro was not a problem, as this is not a MMO. We have Pause features, and a decided lack of farming utensils....
* Duelist spec helps make the tin can look quite agile; the only spec used on this Warden.
Since then, I mostly use Evon's Mail which requires STR 38. This also allows the use of Fade Wall and other shields for when they are useful. I also get Far Song. If and when I am Overwhelmed, I tend to live and kill the surprised foe.
I have attempted a light armored Rogue archer, and gave up on the light part when I made it to the Deep Roads later in the game; the victim of one too many Overwhelm's. But at least I tried the build before deciding against it.
* I never noticed the RoF penalties, but did notice the RoF increase on later builds. Live and learn; and use walkthroughs.
* Still killed the bosses, though Far Song would have been faster.
* Fatigue was not a problem; many sets are Fatigue Friendly, and I happened to choose one of those.
* Agro was not a problem, as this is not a MMO. We have Pause features, and a decided lack of farming utensils....
* Duelist spec helps make the tin can look quite agile; the only spec used on this Warden.
Since then, I mostly use Evon's Mail which requires STR 38. This also allows the use of Fade Wall and other shields for when they are useful. I also get Far Song. If and when I am Overwhelmed, I tend to live and kill the surprised foe.
I have attempted a light armored Rogue archer, and gave up on the light part when I made it to the Deep Roads later in the game; the victim of one too many Overwhelm's. But at least I tried the build before deciding against it.
#35
Posté 30 juillet 2010 - 06:24
soteria
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@EvilGod
The problem (ok, one problem) with your above post is that you're assuming an archer is a rogue. Warriors can be archers, too, and you just said that warriors are tanks. So how does an archer tank break the rules, as you put it?
The problem (ok, one problem) with your above post is that you're assuming an archer is a rogue. Warriors can be archers, too, and you just said that warriors are tanks. So how does an archer tank break the rules, as you put it?
#36
Posté 30 juillet 2010 - 06:28
ncknck
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>First, defense gives you diminishing returns. A defense of 160 will make you completely immune to virtually every normal attack
Diminishing return is then the more you invest, the less you get. Here we have the exact opposite, the more dex invested, the exponentially more damage is being negated, up to a point of near immortality. It doesnt matter how much times a target is hit, only damage counts.(thats what kills people, not hit percentage) You could say that high def is achievable with buffs/talents, but thats time and mana which could better be used in killing the enemy(effectivily negating even more damage). Instead of Heroic defence, cast Stonefist - no more Overwhelm. If getting twice as much damage isnt gonna kill that archer, neither will slightly more damage from Overwhelm. No matter where to look that Heavy armor logic is flawed.
1 scattershot per fight for Heavy armor archers? These must be very quick on-the-edge-fights indeed, for it often takes melee fighters the majority of that time to just engage in melee. Id rather have the ability to use scattershot multiple time per battle.
This is ofc completely off the point, because the archer is the last person who is going to be targeted by Grabs, after Tank with Taunt, and Mage with AoE aggro spells. Since you say that fights dont last longer than 40seconds but Overwhelm cooldown is 60secons, if the archer is even targeted, there is something wrong with tactics here, Heavy armor certainly not the last thing being the cause.
Diminishing return is then the more you invest, the less you get. Here we have the exact opposite, the more dex invested, the exponentially more damage is being negated, up to a point of near immortality. It doesnt matter how much times a target is hit, only damage counts.(thats what kills people, not hit percentage) You could say that high def is achievable with buffs/talents, but thats time and mana which could better be used in killing the enemy(effectivily negating even more damage). Instead of Heroic defence, cast Stonefist - no more Overwhelm. If getting twice as much damage isnt gonna kill that archer, neither will slightly more damage from Overwhelm. No matter where to look that Heavy armor logic is flawed.
1 scattershot per fight for Heavy armor archers? These must be very quick on-the-edge-fights indeed, for it often takes melee fighters the majority of that time to just engage in melee. Id rather have the ability to use scattershot multiple time per battle.
This is ofc completely off the point, because the archer is the last person who is going to be targeted by Grabs, after Tank with Taunt, and Mage with AoE aggro spells. Since you say that fights dont last longer than 40seconds but Overwhelm cooldown is 60secons, if the archer is even targeted, there is something wrong with tactics here, Heavy armor certainly not the last thing being the cause.
#37
Posté 30 juillet 2010 - 06:31
KoboldKommander
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This article should help you, I founn it very useful:
http://dragonage.wik...icient_Approach
I made an archer rogue and dumped in dex and cunning (lethality let's you use cunning as damage modifier instead of strength and a high cunning score with the right skills will boost your damage more than str can) and it is doing good so far, and I don't even have song of courage yet.
This has been my experience as well with my rogue archer. Mages generate far more threat than I do (only three archery skill generate threat. Pinning shot draws 40, scattershot draws 50, and arrow of slaying draws 100) with their spells, my tank draws the attention of enemies most of the time (sometimes they go after mages casing AoE spells etc), and of course I have crowd control spells and stealth (I never need stealth to lower threat, I use it for the auto crit).
http://dragonage.wik...icient_Approach
I made an archer rogue and dumped in dex and cunning (lethality let's you use cunning as damage modifier instead of strength and a high cunning score with the right skills will boost your damage more than str can) and it is doing good so far, and I don't even have song of courage yet.
This is ofc completely off the
point, because the archer is the last person who is going to be targeted
by Grabs, after Tank with Taunt, and Mage with AoE aggro spells. Since
you say that fights dont last longer than 40seconds but Overwhelm
cooldown is 60secons, if the archer is even targeted, there is something
wrong with tactics here, Heavy armor certainly not the last thing being
the cause.
This has been my experience as well with my rogue archer. Mages generate far more threat than I do (only three archery skill generate threat. Pinning shot draws 40, scattershot draws 50, and arrow of slaying draws 100) with their spells, my tank draws the attention of enemies most of the time (sometimes they go after mages casing AoE spells etc), and of course I have crowd control spells and stealth (I never need stealth to lower threat, I use it for the auto crit).
Modifié par KoboldKommander, 30 juillet 2010 - 06:48 .
#38
Posté 30 juillet 2010 - 06:45
EvilGod
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@soteria
if u saw my few first posts u will see that i said warrior archer SUX
so when i say archer i only take it as a rouge
sure that its my own view of things ..
warrior skills are most effective if 2H or dual and it get down if archer .. give me one good specialization at warrior that work for archer ??? u will say that there is no good ones to in the rouge ones but at least u get DEX points and crt rate/dmg from the rouge ones even if u will never take any skills from them ....
all what i say is that warrior skills work perfectly for 2H and duals while its not that good if u r an archer warrior so if u want a good archer it will be so far peter if its a rouge not warrior but i never said that warriors cant be archers tho its up to u its just about the perfect archer thats all
if u saw my few first posts u will see that i said warrior archer SUX
so when i say archer i only take it as a rouge
sure that its my own view of things ..
warrior skills are most effective if 2H or dual and it get down if archer .. give me one good specialization at warrior that work for archer ??? u will say that there is no good ones to in the rouge ones but at least u get DEX points and crt rate/dmg from the rouge ones even if u will never take any skills from them ....
all what i say is that warrior skills work perfectly for 2H and duals while its not that good if u r an archer warrior so if u want a good archer it will be so far peter if its a rouge not warrior but i never said that warriors cant be archers tho its up to u
its just about the perfect archer thats all
#39
Posté 30 juillet 2010 - 07:00
ncknck
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soteria wrote...
While technically true, when you're talking about the difference between dodging 98% and 99% of the time, I'm not sure how many people care that they just doubled their avoidance.
Cant really say anything about other people. 2x is 2x damage. And ofc 98-96% is another 2x and 96->88% is another, thats 2+2+2= 6x less damage for just a couple of dex. Adds up very quickly.
#40
Posté 30 juillet 2010 - 07:12
soteria
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If getting twice as much damage isnt gonna kill that archer, neither will slightly more damage from Overwhelm. No matter where to look that Heavy armor logic is flawed.
Logic is flawed, indeed. "Getting hit twice as much" is talking about normal attacks that deal between 10 and 50 damage. "Slightly more damage from Overwhelm" is actually two or three times as much what a character in heavy armor will suffer, since armor reduces the damage taken per second. We're talking about the difference between taking 50 and 150 damage, not whether the genlock archers manage to tag you once or three times with their arrows. Also, the armor tradeoff mitigates the extra normal hits he takes.
@soteria
if u saw my few first posts u will see that i said warrior archer SUX
I know, and you posted such a compelling argument, too.
warrior skills are most effective if 2H or dual and it get down if archer .. give me one good specialization at warrior that work for archer ??? u will say that there is no good ones to in the rouge ones but at least u get DEX points and crt rate/dmg from the rouge ones even if u will never take any skills from them ....
Every champion skill works well with archery. That's one. All but one templar skill works well with archery, and righteous strike is crappy for everyone. That's two. The first two reaver skills (ie, the better two) work fine with archery. That's three. This is assuming, of course, your warrior archer is planning on doing at least some tanking... but why else go with the warrior?
#41
Posté 30 juillet 2010 - 07:16
soteria
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Cant really say anything about other people. 2x is 2x damage. And ofc 98-96% is another 2x and 96->88% is another, thats 2+2+2= 6x less damage for just a couple of dex. Adds up very quickly.
Actually, it adds up pretty slowly when you're wearing heavy armor. Some of those attacks won't even deal damage. When you're talking about adding some 20 armor in exchange for the dexterity, you can't just say, "you're getting hit 6x more often, therefore you're taking 6x more damage." That's not even remotely true.
#42
Posté 30 juillet 2010 - 07:34
beancounter501
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@ncknck - I could care less about my defense going from a 95% miss rate to a 100% miss rate. Nether one is going to kill my character unless they can one shot him. So lets say my defense gives me a 95% miss rate and some monster is attacking me that can do 50 points of damage (which is pretty unlikely since I have heavy armor) and I have 200 health(which is a low score). It would take that monster EIGHTY swings to kill me. So it can make if a difference if you like to go make yourself a sandwich in the middle of battle and just leave your guy standing there. After a certain point added defense is just not needed. However, chain Overwhelm or chain scattershot can kill you.
Also, Scattershot has a 40 second cooldown. How in the world are using that multiple times in a battle. Are your fights lasting 2 or 3 minutes. Most of them are over fast - under 30 seconds.
Also, Scattershot has a 40 second cooldown. How in the world are using that multiple times in a battle. Are your fights lasting 2 or 3 minutes. Most of them are over fast - under 30 seconds.
#43
Posté 30 juillet 2010 - 07:35
ncknck
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@soteria
Well truth be told Leliana in my playthru never was being attacked by Grabs, and was the last to die, and she was wearing Archon robes ffs (for the most part of the game)
> therefore you're taking 6x more damage.
i didnt say that, although it probably could be interpreted as such, yes, sorry. Just less incoming damage.
Well truth be told Leliana in my playthru never was being attacked by Grabs, and was the last to die, and she was wearing Archon robes ffs (for the most part of the game)
> therefore you're taking 6x more damage.
i didnt say that, although it probably could be interpreted as such, yes, sorry. Just less incoming damage.
#44
Posté 30 juillet 2010 - 07:52
ncknck
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beancounter501 wrote...
@ncknck - I could care less about my defense going from a 95% miss rate to a 100% miss rate. Nether one is going to kill my character unless they can one shot him. So lets say my defense gives me a 95% miss rate and some monster is attacking me that can do 50 points of damage (which is pretty unlikely since I have heavy armor) and I have 200 health(which is a low score). It would take that monster EIGHTY swings to kill me. So it can make if a difference if you like to go make yourself a sandwich in the middle of battle and just leave your guy standing there. After a certain point added defense is just not needed. However, chain Overwhelm or chain scattershot can kill you.
Ok, lets see
99%@50dmg@200hp => 4/0.01=400hits
99%-18dex=81%@50dmg@200hp =>4/0.19 = 21hit
1hit per second. Average life expectancy 20 seconds.
edit: i see i borked up here, assume 4 enemies (not unrealistic)
Modifié par ncknck, 30 juillet 2010 - 08:04 .
#45
Posté 30 juillet 2010 - 07:54
EvilGod
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@soteria
there is 2 things u should care about here ..
skill work & skill work perfectly
the deferent is for example ...
Devour : it will work for the archer but its bad .. u r ranged the dead bodies will be far from u so u cant devour but the skill will work .
Ally : u will gonna be far far from ur party as a tanker unless u want to tank while ur party is around u which means they will all die if the enemies have 1 high rank mage with a strong AOE that skill ment to work perfectly more for a tanker with melee party members
and so on ...
u r ranged .... so maybe the skill will work but it wont have good effect
there is 2 things u should care about here ..
skill work & skill work perfectly
the deferent is for example ...
Devour : it will work for the archer but its bad .. u r ranged the dead bodies will be far from u so u cant devour but the skill will work .
Ally : u will gonna be far far from ur party as a tanker unless u want to tank while ur party is around u which means they will all die if the enemies have 1 high rank mage with a strong AOE that skill ment to work perfectly more for a tanker with melee party members
and so on ...
u r ranged .... so maybe the skill will work but it wont have good effect
#46
Posté 30 juillet 2010 - 08:16
beancounter501
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@ncknck - you are missing my entire argument. I was simply showing that defense has diminishing returns. And that going from a 95 to a 100 defense is not as beneficial as you are saying. BTW, your numbers are off - most monsters swing 1 every 2 seconds which would give a 40 seconds lifespan. I am pretty sure I could kill one monster in 40 seconds. or at least remember to drink a health potion.
And you are missing the point that I can boost my defense at WILL by an easy 40 to 60 points by using Defensive Fire and Suppressing Fire. That more then covers the 18 points of defense that I gave up to take strength. That will make any Archer unhittable.
And you are missing the point that I can boost my defense at WILL by an easy 40 to 60 points by using Defensive Fire and Suppressing Fire. That more then covers the 18 points of defense that I gave up to take strength. That will make any Archer unhittable.
#47
Posté 30 juillet 2010 - 08:24
Last Darkness
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T R O L L S !!!
There are several people in this forum who while certainly entitled to their opinion, do need to reconsider their ideas and theorycraft. But the thing that really gets me is that said certain people EvilGod more then most are incapable of seeing from any other view but their own and all others opinions and arguments are not even considred and shrugged off as incorrect because its not theirs. I applaud you for the Hubris, its been awile since ive seen such.
I like how this debate has broken down to a argument about stereo typical roles versus the factual game mechanics.
Elhanan, Beancounter and Soteria have presented well documented evidence to support their claims. There has been no convincing argument, facts or evidence to prove them incorrect.
And just for the hell of it heres some actual data for the specific heavy armor most of the enlightened people are talking about. With master archer note the attack speed penalty is negated.
Evon+Wades - Heavy Armor 38 Str Req
+2 Health regeneration in combat
+6 Armor
+10% Chance to Dodge Attacks
+2 Stamina regeneration in combat
+10 Defense against Missiles
+20% Fire Resistance
Set: -20% Fatigue
Set: +5 Defense
So 27.26 Armor and 3.4% Fatigue (Or if a Warrior with Powerful -6.6% Fatigue)
And this dosnt factor in a helmet of your choice and accessories, and weapon bonuses.
Information pulled from the Wiki Here
Also as crazy as it sounds a Warrior archer makes a better tank then you would think, and in Awakening Warrior Archers do Thousands of damage as a Spirit Warrior www.youtube.com/watch is a good example.
Plus Warrior Archers and Rogue Archers can easily be made to have near or more than 100% crit rate thereby negating the need for most of the skills as you will do more damage auto attacking. Here a good source of info for this specific setup.
There are several people in this forum who while certainly entitled to their opinion, do need to reconsider their ideas and theorycraft. But the thing that really gets me is that said certain people EvilGod more then most are incapable of seeing from any other view but their own and all others opinions and arguments are not even considred and shrugged off as incorrect because its not theirs. I applaud you for the Hubris, its been awile since ive seen such.
I like how this debate has broken down to a argument about stereo typical roles versus the factual game mechanics.
Elhanan, Beancounter and Soteria have presented well documented evidence to support their claims. There has been no convincing argument, facts or evidence to prove them incorrect.
And just for the hell of it heres some actual data for the specific heavy armor most of the enlightened people are talking about. With master archer note the attack speed penalty is negated.
Evon+Wades - Heavy Armor 38 Str Req
+2 Health regeneration in combat
+6 Armor
+10% Chance to Dodge Attacks
+2 Stamina regeneration in combat
+10 Defense against Missiles
+20% Fire Resistance
Set: -20% Fatigue
Set: +5 Defense
So 27.26 Armor and 3.4% Fatigue (Or if a Warrior with Powerful -6.6% Fatigue)
And this dosnt factor in a helmet of your choice and accessories, and weapon bonuses.
Information pulled from the Wiki Here
Also as crazy as it sounds a Warrior archer makes a better tank then you would think, and in Awakening Warrior Archers do Thousands of damage as a Spirit Warrior www.youtube.com/watch is a good example.
Plus Warrior Archers and Rogue Archers can easily be made to have near or more than 100% crit rate thereby negating the need for most of the skills as you will do more damage auto attacking. Here a good source of info for this specific setup.
Modifié par Last Darkness, 30 juillet 2010 - 08:28 .
#48
Posté 30 juillet 2010 - 08:44
soteria
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Good points as well, Last Darkness.
Again, you're ignoring the fact that he's not trading dexterity for nothing--he's trading it for armor.
99%@50dmg@200hp => 4/0.01=400hits
99%-18dex=81%@50dmg@200hp =>4/0.19 = 21hit
1hit per second. Average life expectancy 20 seconds.
Again, you're ignoring the fact that he's not trading dexterity for nothing--he's trading it for armor.
#49
Posté 30 juillet 2010 - 09:54
EvilGod
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guys i am not viewing things from one way and ignoring the other ways
but when i talk i talk about the best job in its best place .. means:
Archer : where is the best use for that class ???
its DPS thats the most effective roll for that job but i did not said Archer cant tank in fact i said i can make my mage go tank i can kite a ravenent solo with it even with no cold skills i even tried and put all my party on Hold and move with only my mage solo in a full map in the dwarves quests and i done all lol
but as i said .. i was not talking about if u can tank with it or not .. i was talking about how to put the job in it most effective way even if archer can tank still a warrior with a shield is far peter than that archer and the archer will be far peter in the DPS ... if u want to make ur archer to go tanking, k its up to u but let me tell u 1 thing to test ...
put ur archer to tank and shot a mix of Inferno + blizzard all same time on him and see if he will gonna live ... my mage now have 161 spell power even shale cant handle my dmg the only one did was Alistair with the full set of the superior dragonbone armor
but when i talk i talk about the best job in its best place .. means:
Archer : where is the best use for that class ???
its DPS thats the most effective roll for that job but i did not said Archer cant tank in fact i said i can make my mage go tank i can kite a ravenent solo with it even with no cold skills i even tried and put all my party on Hold and move with only my mage solo in a full map in the dwarves quests and i done all lol
but as i said .. i was not talking about if u can tank with it or not .. i was talking about how to put the job in it most effective way even if archer can tank still a warrior with a shield is far peter than that archer and the archer will be far peter in the DPS ... if u want to make ur archer to go tanking, k its up to u but let me tell u 1 thing to test ...
put ur archer to tank and shot a mix of Inferno + blizzard all same time on him and see if he will gonna live ... my mage now have 161 spell power even shale cant handle my dmg the only one did was Alistair with the full set of the superior dragonbone armor
#50
Posté 30 juillet 2010 - 10:18
Last Darkness
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soteria wrote...
Good points as well, Last Darkness.Again, you're ignoring the fact that he's not trading dexterity for nothing--he's trading it for armor.99%@50dmg@200hp => 4/0.01=400hits
99%-18dex=81%@50dmg@200hp =>4/0.19 = 21hit
1hit per second. Average life expectancy 20 seconds.
*EDIT* I have time to examine that math now, how does 18 dex/defense translate into 18%? by that math a defense score of 100 would = 100% chance to avoid all damage. This math is terrible and inaccurate.....
The math is as correct as im going to assume since I dont want to really get into detail with it. The problem is it factors in all other varibles as equal zero, =0. The glaringly obvius problem between the two figures is that it dosnt factor in the armor as damage mitigation, plus other varibles like resitance and such.
Does someone have the per point numbers for Armor?
@EvilGod ^^^
Who said a tanking Archer Suffers on DPS? You gain a equal amount of damage from Str and Dex.
Modifié par Last Darkness, 30 juillet 2010 - 11:00 .
