32 réponses à ce sujet

[FollowTheGourd]

ladydesire wrote...
My one ground rule for the discussion is this:
leave your personal feelings for the Open House group and
certain fellow members of community that you do not like out
of the discussion

I just skimmed the rest of the threadsposts, but I guess it didn't take long to fall into that. I'll actually read them in a sec, but not everybody in the group is part of a hive mind, so generalizations aren't that useful to go by, or even grievances against one person, given the premise of the thread.

Plus if we're so against stealing, why does some work here use 'shopped NWN2 icons... Different dev and publisher even. I could be wrong on that, but it seems a bit hypocritical.

Modifié par FollowTheGourd, 30 juillet 2010 - 12:28 .

[DarthParametric]

Mengtzu wrote...

Almost anything would be useful.  If you're a modder like myself, lacking the art skills to make your own resources and having reused most areas and monster in the game already in released modules, the lack of additional assets feels quite limiting :<

I understand what you are saying, but even assuming that a few extra custom tilesets were made available, wouldn't exactly the same problem arise? You'd get the same thing as with the vanilla resources - i.e. everybody uses the same assets over and over in every module.

When I started work on the room models for the 1st floor of the Irenicus Dungeon last Xmas, I originally intended to release a generic "dungeon tileset" for basically the purpose you describe. However, once the reality of what a PITA preparing level models for the DA toolset is (collision, lightmapping, etc), I quickly shelved the idea. My feeling is that you are unlikely to ever see much in this regard given the effort required.

Talisander wrote...

You're generalizing way too much, Darth.

Well there's a twofold reason for that. The first is it is very difficult to discuss such a topic where there are a myriad of different opinions without getting bogged down in minutiae. I was trying to restrict it to the broad strokes. The second is that I was trying to avoid being overly inflammatory in what is a very emotive subject.

[Talisander]

Wait, it's my fault for posting a wall of text, but if you are going to respond, could you at least respond to more than my first sentence, which is already about over-generalizing?

Never mind, don't worry about it. But I do want to ask this, about your stance on custom content.

It seems like you are mainly saying:

People shouldn't really want custom resources anyway, because the game already comes with resources and anything that does get released will just become as overused as the vanilla resources, making it pointless.

The idea that making new things is pointless because they will eventually become as tired as the old things reads a lot like a logical fallacy. (I hate it when people try to use logic as a bludgeon on the internet, but I couldn't resist... I'm sorry.)

At the very least, getting enough people to believe that will make it a self-fulfilling prophecy, because no one sharing their work will mean that when some brave soul does share some of their work, their resources will be the only new resources in a community of mizers, and they will indeed become overused much more quickly than they would in a more open community.

We've also got one (or several?) of the few creators who have already released standalone playable mods for DA in this thread saying that they really don't feel that more substantial custom content would be worthless.  If I'm near the mark about what you're saying, Isn't that in itself some of the weightiest proof you could hope for?

Modifié par Talisander, 29 juillet 2010 - 05:11 .

[Arttis]

If you want to expand you must believe there is more to be gained!

This community must expand to survive!

[DarthParametric]

[quote]Talisander wrote...

But I do want to ask this, about your stance on custom content.[quote]
I'm not averse to the sharing of content in principle, I just have issues with the way it is carried out. My position is that a mod is not free for anyone to use and redistribute as they see fit, unless the author has explicitly stated something to the contrary. In pretty much every case in the past (for other games) when other authors have contacted me about using my work in their mod, I have agreed (as long as I was duly credited). I have also, on occasion, contributed to mod "mega packs" that compile work from a number of different authors. And as I said in my last post, I was planning on releasing content specifically for mod makers to use in their own mods. Ultimately, for me, it comes down to being able to distribute the mods I make in the manner of my choice, and if other people are interested in using them in their own public mods that they do me the courtesy of asking permission. As I said before, that's pretty much the norm in every other modding community I have been a part of.

[quote]Talisander wrote...

People shouldn't really want custom resources anyway, because the game already comes with resources and anything that does get released will just become as overused as the vanilla resources, making it pointless.[/quote]
Not exactly what I was trying to say. I'm unfamiliar with the intricacies of the NWN mod community, but from what I have seen the scope dwarfed DA's by several orders of magnitude. My point was simply that we are never going to reach that level, so people shouldn't be expecting the same volume of custom content being available for DA. Again, I don't know much about what was available for NWN, but I'm fairly certain you're not going to see 50 different tilesets for DA. I'd love if we could download a whole Sword Coast tileset - would sure save my team a hell of a lot of work. Anyway I understand why people want custom resources, I just have trouble seeing the volume ever exceeding a trivial amount, leading to what I said earlier. I'd be happy to be proved wrong.

[quote]Talisander wrote...

no one sharing their work will mean that when some brave soul does share some of their work, their resources will be the only new resources in a community of mizers, and they will indeed become overused much more quickly than they would in a more open community.[/quote]
I don't think that issue is really one of an "open" or "closed" community. A large part hinges on the level of effort involved in cranking out those resources, as I alluded to in my previous post. You really need a team of people if you want to churn out content in large quantities and/or in a short space of time, especially when you are talking about the sort of assets people need for adventure modules. Having 1000 different sword models is nice, but is that sort of thing really what people need? I would think they are mainly looking for level models, character/creature models, new animations, etc. Those things aren't trivial to produce.

Modifié par DarthParametric, 29 juillet 2010 - 05:28 .

[DhammaWings]

Seems to me this matter is simple enough.

If someone else does work that helps your mod, then you should feel gratitude toward that person; and in the interest of community spirit, you will want to express your gratitude.

If you are borrowing work done by someone else for inclusion in your mod, you would naturally want to ask them if they will let you do that. If they say "no", then that's the end of it. If they say "yes", then you have probably gained a friend, and the community will be made stronger.

To me, it's about community building, as much if not more than "ego building".

Modifié par DhammaWings, 30 juillet 2010 - 01:01 .

[Talisander]

Yeah, I agree that the underlying issue is more about community building, and that at this point it seems the custom content discussion could perversely be harming some of those community connections.

To bring up a specific: Do we all want a builder database that's better (more organized, easier to search through) than what we've currently got on the social site? Is there anyone who is against this (current execution aside)?

Modifié par Talisander, 29 juillet 2010 - 06:24 .

[FollowTheGourd]

This is the sort of thing I think we should be doing more of: social.bioware.com/group/2535/

I'm not the one organizing the contest, but I've been arguing that it's better to get people who want to create stuff to share in the first place, and hopefully it catches on (through positive feedback, rewards, spotlights, reviews, interviews, silver tiaras). Whether you can edit it or not is a separate argument, which is tiresome after a while. As long as it's opt-in and the author sets the terms (or doesn't opt-in because of the terms), who cares - flaming about it only brings the whole thing down when you should be focusing on what's positive.

Modifié par FollowTheGourd, 30 juillet 2010 - 12:42 .