13 réponses à ce sujet

[Slyx]

Hopefully none of the info here is spoiler-ish

Playing BG2, I have a lvl 10 cleric with a THAC0 of 8 (as displayed in the character record screen).  While fighting Amalas (the Ruffian that picks a fight with you in the Copper Coronet) I decided to Control-Q him into my group to look at his stats.  He's listed as having an AC of 1.

As I attack him, with a Mace +2, I take note of my attack rolls at the bottom of the screen.  As far as I know, I have all the extended information about rolls turned on.  Each time I attack him, I see something like "Attack roll 5 + 5 = 10 : Miss"  So in that example, if my THAC0 is 8, and his AC is 1, I would only need to roll a 7 to hit him correct?  Why then do I miss when I roll a "5 + 5 = 10".  Is the first number (in the 5 + 5 example) the only number that matters whether you hit or not?  If so, what is the second + 5 number for?  What does the number 10 represent?  The first number always varies, but there is always a + 5 second number on my rolls, at least when fighting against Amalas.

Also, is there no way to see what your weapon's damage roll was?

I'm new to this game, but have been totally obsessed with it for the past few weeks, so I'm constantly learning new things about it.

Thanks! =)

Modifié par Slyx, 29 juillet 2010 - 08:31 .

[Irrbloss]

Apparently I don't know how this works, but a quick test suggests that Y, in X + Y = Z, is somehow irrelevant. With THAC0 10 X=9 is a hit and X=8 is a miss against Amalas (AC 1) with Y=6.
There's no in-game method of displaying damage rolls.

Modifié par Irrbloss, 29 juillet 2010 - 10:19 .

[Slyx]

I think I just realized what the Y represents. I just noticed now (after an item upgrade or two), that whenever I attack it's a + 6 for Y. My current base THAC0 is 11, and my effective THAC0 is 5 (after items/str bonus is taken into account). So I believe Y is the bonus you have over your base THAC0? At least the numbers are the same. Base THAC0 - THAC0 mods (from weapon, str, etc) = Y. I don't know what the number after the equal sign represents though.

Modifié par Slyx, 29 juillet 2010 - 02:09 .

[Irrbloss]

Slyx wrote...

I think I just realized what the Y represents. I just noticed now (after an item upgrade or two), that whenever I attack it's a + 6 for Y. My current base THAC0 is 11, and my effective THAC0 is 5 (after items/str bonus is taken into account). So I believe Y is the bonus you have over your base THAC0? At least the numbers are the same. Base THAC0 - THAC0 mods (from weapon, str, etc) = Y. I don't know what the number after the equal sign represents though.

I don't think it's quite that simple. If the opponent has e.g. extra AC vs slashing that AC shows up in Y. X is the raw 1d20 roll, Y is some sort of amalgamated modified encompassing multiple terms, but that would suggest you should compare Z with your THAC0. However, Z values greater than your THAC0 can still result in a miss, so obviously it doesn't work that way.

[Slyx]

Any suggestions on how to find out what the number after the = represents? I noticed this forum is brand new, or the old one was closed and this one replaced it. Perhaps there aren't that many visitors here currently; visitors that may know the answer to this question.

[nimzar]

Have you checked DSimpson's AD&D FAQ on gamefaqs?
http://www.gamefaqs....ldurs-gate/faqs

I suggest that 'cause I know that I'm not qualified to go into in depth discussion over the intricacies of the 2nd edition rule set.

Modifié par nimzar, 29 juillet 2010 - 11:35 .

[Slyx]

nimzar wrote...

Have you checked DSimpson's AD&D FAQ on gamefaqs?
http://www.gamefaqs....ldurs-gate/faqs

I suggest that 'cause I know that I'm not qualified to go into in depth discussion over the intricacies of the 2nd edition rule set.

I checked that.  It didn't address the "x + y = z" formula at all, but it was informative in other ways, so thank you =)

PS - Is it just me, or is editing posts on this forum screwy?  I try to edit my post, and it seems I have to do it like 3 or 4+ times to get it to take.

Modifié par Slyx, 30 juillet 2010 - 02:15 .

[Guilebrush]

Slyx wrote...

I checked that.  It didn't address the "x + y = z" formula at all, but it was informative in other ways, so thank you =)

PS - Is it just me, or is editing posts on this forum screwy?  I try to edit my post, and it seems I have to do it like 3 or 4+ times to get it to take.

Yes these forums are rather quirky. They behave rather odd with copy/pasting too, weird word wrapping etc. I think at least that there's a certain time period that has to pass between posts causing edits to take a little time before they "take." Usually if you refresh a couple of times you'll see your edits show up after about half a minute passes.

Anyway as for your original question X is your d20 roll while Y is your Thac0 modifier (the difference between your listed base and actual Thac0 numbers) z is the value you compare against the difference of your Thac0 with the target's AC. In other words you had the variables correct in your first post. Now why would you miss a target with an AC of 1 (5 base from his armor with a 4 AC bonus from his 18 dex) with your Thac0 at 8 and a roll > 7? Frankly I'm not quite sure . The largest penalty a blunt weapon should suffer against qualifying armor type(splint mail) is 2 so even if that were in play here the difference should have been covered.

The only thing I can think of is your character sheet is somehow displaying the wrong Thac0 number. As a level 10 Cleric your base Thac0 should be 14. The Mace will lower that by 2 and if I had to hazard a guess the remaining 4 (to drop it to 8) was due to an exceptional strength score and not from other items. Now if this was indeed due to a temporary buff such as DUHM and the buff ran out mid-fight that could explain the miss (12Thac0 - 1AC =11 needed, therefore a roll of 5+5 results in a miss). Of course this is all hypothetical and goes out the window if you weren't using a short term buff to futher modify your thac0 from 12 to 8 and were using items instead.  

Quick Edit: Yes I realize that these numbers aren'tt quite 100% consistent, I'm just using the numbers you provided in your first post. A level 10 Cleric with a Thac0 of 8 should display a +6 modifier, not + 5 unless perhaps you're using an item that modifies your base Thac0. In other words this theorycrafting would be easier if we knew more about the situation (ie your gearset/active buffs)

Modifié par Guilebrush, 30 juillet 2010 - 04:36 .

[Guilebrush]

Ugh I just realized that there's a gaping hole in my working hypothesis, namely if you were deriving part of your hit bonus (Y value) from a buff that dropped the log should display a different value for Y to take that into account. So yeah, I'm not exactly sure why you missed in that situation but that's still what the X, Y and Z variables should stand for. :/

[Slyx]

I was wearing a Helm of Balduran at the time (+1 to base THAC0) and wielding a Mace +2, and I'm pretty sure I was wearing the Belt of Hill Giant Strength as well (with a base/naked strength of 18). I'm pretty certain I wasn't using any buffs at that time.

If you look up Amalas' character file, he's not wearing ANY armor (just an invisible helmet), so there should be no AC bonus mod to crushing, slashing, piercing, etc.  Besides, I'm pretty sure that all AC bonus mods show up in the Y value anyway.  I know this is the case when wearing the Sensate Amulet (which bestows Protection from Evil on the wearer) and fighting evil aligned characters.  I've tested this by letting an evil monster (Troll, etc.) take whacks at me, without the amulet on, taking note of the Y value, then wearing the amulet and seeing the Y value lowered by the expected -2.

I think I understand now. Basically, you take your listed base THAC0, which was 13 at that time, subtract the Z value from that, and you get the lowest AC number you could hit, so in the case of a 5 + 5 = 10, 13 - 10 = 3AC was the lowest I could have hit, and his AC being 1 = a miss.

So, X = your D20 to-hit roll, Y = all your THAC0 mods (excluding mods that modify BASE THAC0, such as the Balduran helm), and Z = your final roll value. Then take your Base THAC0 (as listed in character sheet), substract Z, and you get the AC you can hit for that roll.

Modifié par Slyx, 30 juillet 2010 - 06:39 .

[Incantatar]

With X you're right. You already were right in your opening post that your roll needs to be 7 (=X). But i don't think Y is correct. Like Irrbloss said. When i e.g. have an extra modifier for my AC against missiles, this shows up in my enemy's Y. They often have negative Ys in that case.

[Morbidest]

This thread is indirectly bringing up a playing philosophy issue  Back in floppy disc ancient history combat was turn based and battles were micromanaged to the max. But even 11 years ago in BG we had the choice of continuing to micromanage or just set up the battle and let 'er rip, or doing something inbetween. I'm curious as to how we divide up into these 3 schools of thought  (personally, I set up and only autopause if an opponent is killed and also watch to see if one of my party is getting clobbered - and then manual pause to help). How do you guys play?

[Slyx]

I'm new to the game, only been playing a month or two, with BG2 anyway. I played BG1 a bit, but stopped just short of getting to the city of Baldur's Gate.



I have pauses on enemy sighted, player hurt badly, trap found, target gone/destroyed, weapon unusable (not sure if this is needed), and party member death. I manually pause a lot though, to re-target things, tell summons to attack something else (if they listen) etc.

[Chebby]

First 5 = initial attack roll.

Second 5 = Str/proficiency/item related attack bonus (modified by opponent's armor type, see instruction manual for more details on how different armours have different attack type negations).

10 = Total attack roll.

What the game may not be telling you (I have no idea; I never checked his inventory, never bothered to.) is that he could be equipped with some form of item that improves AC vs. crushing weapons. If not, then the game's trolling you.