59 réponses à ce sujet

[Wedger]

Herr Uhl wrote...


He fell victim to a falling coconut.

No more J.D. Salinger references!!!

[Guns]

Ulicus wrote...

A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine before he turned to evil, helped the Orlesian Empire hunt down and destroy the Therin Kings. He betrayed and murdered your father.

Nice.

[thegreateski]

Scurvy . . . or pirates . . . pirates with scurvy.

[TJPags]

Hmmm . . . .Loghain slept with Maric's wife?



Wouldn't it be funny if Caillan was actually Loghain's son?

[Addai]

TJPags wrote...

Hmmm . . . .Loghain slept with Maric's wife?

Wouldn't it be funny if Caillan was actually Loghain's son?

Except that the Theirin resemblance is too strong.  See, Alistair.  Also in The Calling, Maric says that there is no doubt the baby is his and that he even looks like Cailan, hence Cailan looks like Maric.

The seed is strong!

[TJPags]

Well, looks can be deceiving, can't they? 

And what guy can ever be 100% sure?  Now, if Rowen said it, that's different.

Also, I don't think Caillan and Alistair look much alike, IMHO.

[Bahlgan]

follis2 wrote...

Sorry if my tongue-in-cheek commentary about Loghain and Maric didn't come across as exactly that. Of course there is no evidence for anything. It was just a joke. So to all Loghain fans out there: Sorry!! (But I still don't like him, though...)

Don't be sorry. I was happy to see Loghain die for what he did to all those innocent soldiers at Ostagar, and even more so when I heard he had a great part in the betrayal from "The Stolen Throne". All that he did was more than just completely unreal. In fact, I'd say he unleashed 10 demons for every single demon he may have suffered.

To be honest I don't think Loghain did anything particularly evil throughout his life apart from selling the alienage elves to Tevinter - that seemed really out of character for him. Yes he did some morally abhorrent things but his decision at Ostagar can definitely be understood.

What makes the Tevinter situation any different than treating the soldiers at Ostagar as spare ribs for the Darkspawn? I could never possibly overlook the murder of thousands of fighters who were ready to die for their king. The elves at least were not murdered; just merely shipped.

Modifié par Bahlgan, 03 août 2010 - 07:07 .

[Sarah1281]

TJPags wrote...

Well, looks can be deceiving, can't they? 

And what guy can ever be 100% sure?  Now, if Rowen said it, that's different.

Also, I don't think Caillan and Alistair look much alike, IMHO.

Really? They have the exact same face just different coloring.


@ Bahlgan: I find it strange that you seem to identify yourself as a Loghain fan that that apology was addressing.

[Sarah1281]

What makes the Tevinter situation any different than treating the soldiers at Ostagar as spare ribs for the Darkspawn? I could never possibly overlook the murder of thousands of fighters who were ready to die for their king. The elves at least were not murdered; just merely shipped.

We HAVE been over why Loghain leaving, which wasn't guarenteed to save the soldiers you're so up-in-arms about, is something other people don't view as an evil, unforgiveable action.

[Merllle]

TJPags wrote...

Also, I don't think Caillan and Alistair look much alike, IMHO.

What are you talking about, they are practically mirror images of each other!

And Maric is dead. Flemeth prophecized it in The Stolen Throne. According to her, a Blight was coming, but Maric would never live to see it. Also, Loghain was going to betray him, each time worse then the last one. So, it's not ruled out that he might have had something to do with Maric's demise, since he might not have been totally apt to rule in his final years (and Loghain, like a little dictator, does everything and anything for his mother land) - although, I personally don't think that was the case. In the end, his worst betrayal was to having left his son to die, along with the Wardens Maric helped bring back to Ferelden, and to have seized the throne for himself.

Modifié par Merllle, 03 août 2010 - 07:12 .

[Bahlgan]

@ Bahlgan: I find it strange that you seem to identify yourself as a Loghain fan that that apology was addressing.

Whoever said I was a Loghain fan? What I said earlier clearly contradicts your statement.

Sarah1281 wrote...

What makes the Tevinter situation any different than treating the soldiers at Ostagar as spare ribs for the Darkspawn? I could never possibly overlook the murder of thousands of fighters who were ready to die for their king. The elves at least were not murdered; just merely shipped.

We HAVE been over why Loghain leaving, which wasn't guarenteed to save the soldiers you're so up-in-arms about, is something other people don't view as an evil, unforgiveable action.

I understand your opinion on the matter, but I was speaking to those who did not know of my own. Treachery is what this sin Loghain committed to be at Ostagar. Treachery is a sin against nature; against that trust which fosters all forms of life. To betray someone is perhaps the greatest genre of sins, and therefore is to be taken the heaviest. I am not saying it is an unforgivable sin, but neither am I saying (which is my point) that it should be one which Loghain can walk away with a slap on the wrist. Prison or execution would be fitting to one who betrayed the lives of so many, regardless of your belief on whether or not victory would be at hand. He would have died a hero and not a coward and/or kingslayer and/or throne snatcher.

[CalJones]

TJPags wrote...

Hmmm . . . .Loghain slept with Maric's wife?

Wouldn't it be funny if Caillan was actually Loghain's son?

Book spoiler alert!

Technically she wasn't his wife at that point. Maric was betrothed to Rowan (Arl Eamon and Bann Teagan's elder sister) from an early age, but started knocking off Katriel, an Orlesian spy who had been sent to infiltrate the rebels. Rowan was pretty upset about this and sought solace in Loghain's arms, which wasn't hard to do as he had fallen in love with her.
Then Loghain and Rowan discovered that Katriel was, indeed, a spy (a bard, in fact), and informed Maric, who killed her.
Once it looked as though Maric might actually get to be king, Loghain realised he needed a good queen at his side and ended the relationship with Rowan so that she could marry Maric. (It's slightly more complex than that, but them's the basics).
Cailan's most definitely Maric's son. Whether Alistair is a chambermaid's son, or the son of a character who appears in The Calling, is another matter. Some argue that Maric wouldn't have cheated on Rowan while she was alive, but then again, he did more or less cheat on her with Katriel so who's to say he wouldn't have strayed in a moment of weakness, particularly when Rowan was sick and he was probably not getting any nookie?

As for how Maric died, I highly doubt that Loghain had anything to do with that given that he more or less idolised Maric. I am unsure exactly what three betrayals Flemmeth talks about but I'm assuming they relate to Katriel (she eventually fell for Maric and was repentant, but Loghain neglected to inform Maric of this), leaving Cailan to die and then going against Alistair. I can't really think of anything else that would fit.

[Sarah1281]

Whoever said I was a Loghain fan? What I said earlier clearly contradicts your statement.

Yeah, I know. I was referring to the fact he was like 'I apologize to Loghain fans' and you responded with 'yeah, don't apologize' despite that not actually being addressed to you due to your hatred of Loghain.

[Bahlgan]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Whoever said I was a Loghain fan? What I said earlier clearly contradicts your statement.

Yeah, I know. I was referring to the fact he was like 'I apologize to Loghain fans' and you responded with 'yeah, don't apologize' despite that not actually being addressed to you due to your hatred of Loghain.

Heh heh well I don't hate Loghain, even though he cared not for anyone but his lack of trust with the Grey Wardens. And no, I understand he wasn't apologizing to me in particular. I was telling him not to apologize to Loghain fans, especially for those who really like to keep a complete and totally short leash on diction.

hether Alistair is a chambermaid's son, or the son of a character who appears in The Calling, is another matter.

I was under the impression that Alistair's mother really was the mage from The Calling. Am I wrong?

Modifié par Bahlgan, 03 août 2010 - 05:02 .

[Patriciachr34]

No one has either confirmed or denied this fact. Originally, Alistair was suppose to be a son conceived when Rowan was still alive (around 30 years old at the beginning of Origins), but they rewrote him to be younger. At one point Alistair even has a line about his birth being kept secret from Queen Rowan. I just ran across this one on my most recent play through. If they stuck to the older Alistair then no he would not be Fiona's son. However, the younger rewritten Alistair could be her son. Eh, who knows?

[Sarah1281]

Bahlgan wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Whoever said I was a Loghain fan? What I said earlier clearly contradicts your statement.

Yeah, I know. I was referring to the fact he was like 'I apologize to Loghain fans' and you responded with 'yeah, don't apologize' despite that not actually being addressed to you due to your hatred of Loghain.

Heh heh well I don't hate Loghain, even though he cared not for anyone but his lack of trust with the Grey Wardens. And no, I understand he wasn't apologizing to me in particular. I was telling him not to apologize to Loghain fans, especially for those who really like to keep a complete and totally short leash on diction.

But he wasn't apologizing in general, just for accusing him of killing Maric which people took more seriously than intended.

[wicked_being]

Maric's death is just...underwhelming. "He was lost at sea." I don't know I just expected it to be more detailed. Ferelden people aren't normally seafarers so where was he going anyway?

Bahlgan wrote...
I was under the impression that Alistair's mother really was the mage from The Calling. Am I wrong?

Same here. If Alistair was conceived/born at the time of Queen Rowan, why was there no mention at all that there was another potential heir, when Maric was thinking about Fiona and his son competing against Cailan. Besides, everything in pre-DA:O had something to do with Origins and Awakening.

[EnchantedEyes1]

wicked_being wrote...

Same here. If Alistair was conceived/born at the time of Queen Rowan, why was there no mention at all that there was another potential heir, when Maric was thinking about Fiona and his son competing against Cailan. Besides, everything in pre-DA:O had something to do with Origins and Awakening.

Alistair was conceived after Rowan's death, when Maric went into the Deep Roads with the Orlesian Wardens.

[jpdipity]

EnchantedEyes1 wrote...

wicked_being wrote...

Same here. If Alistair was conceived/born at the time of Queen Rowan, why was there no mention at all that there was another potential heir, when Maric was thinking about Fiona and his son competing against Cailan. Besides, everything in pre-DA:O had something to do with Origins and Awakening.

Alistair was conceived after Rowan's death, when Maric went into the Deep Roads with the Orlesian Wardens.

That's never been confirmed.  We don't know if Fiona is Alistair's mother or not.

I believe that Alistair is Fiona's child, but that is my opinion based on the facts that we do know.

[EnchantedEyes1]

Of course, you are right. I sometimes forget that has never been confirmed.

[Johnny Shepard]

jpdipity wrote...

EnchantedEyes1 wrote...

wicked_being wrote...

Same here. If Alistair was conceived/born at the time of Queen Rowan, why was there no mention at all that there was another potential heir, when Maric was thinking about Fiona and his son competing against Cailan. Besides, everything in pre-DA:O had something to do with Origins and Awakening.

Alistair was conceived after Rowan's death, when Maric went into the Deep Roads with the Orlesian Wardens.

That's never been confirmed.  We don't know if Fiona is Alistair's mother or not.

I believe that Alistair is Fiona's child, but that is my opinion based on the facts that we do know.

Yeah, David
Gaider desided to not tell us for some reason. He said that it was "up to us" if Fiona is Alistair's mother or not.<_<
Myself I feel it is no question about it since Fiona's child should be in Alistair's age, since there is no reason to introduce a another son of Maric and not follow up on it in the game,  and Fiona's child was sent away and told that his mother was a maide and dead. It would be strange if the same thing happened to Alistair AND another son of Maric's.

Andrastee wrote...

The ghost's rhyme goes:

"One, two, Maric's run through
Three, four the kingdom's at war
Eight, nine and now you die."

Which
could hint that he was murdered, or maybe the dead elven child just
doesn't know what he's talking about and we should listen to David
Gaider instead :-). Whatever happened, Cailan had been king for five
years at the start of Origins.

David
Gaider said that the rhyme wasnt true and that he did not know who put it there.
My guess is that someone just liked the idea of Maric being murdered, noticed that there was no codex about it and put that rhyme in there to make people belive that he was murdered.
Myself I go after what David
Gaider said. He IS Dragon Age. He created the character and the events so he should be the one who knows.

ArawnNox wrote...

BramAlam12345 wrote...

What
I wonder is how did Cailan end up with Maric's sword if Maric was lost
at sea. Also, if Maric was lost at sea, can we be sure that he is
really dead? Wouldn't that be a surprise if he was somehow still alive
somewhere?

Well, there's a good chance Maric left his
sword behind, and I think the official word from David Gaider is that
Maric is dead, no surprise returns or anything like that. Then again,
it's not like he couldn't be leading us on. However, why go through the
trouble of telling a story that revolves around deciding who rules
Ferelden, only to make Maric come back at a later date? It would kinda
be a shot in the gut to the players, wouldn't it?

The plan was that there would be a quest in the game that would give us Maric's sword and probobly also explain what happened to Maric but they had big problems with the quest so it got cut and later they desided to put the sword in another DLC instead and scrap the other quest compleatly.
That is probobly also why the codex doesnt say anything about Maric's death because that entry was conected to the deleted quest and somehow they forgot to put it in the game.

Modifié par Johnny Shepard, 03 août 2010 - 10:21 .

[TJPags]

Sarah1281 wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Well, looks can be deceiving, can't they? 

And what guy can ever be 100% sure?  Now, if Rowen said it, that's different.

Also, I don't think Caillan and Alistair look much alike, IMHO.

Really? They have the exact same face just different coloring.


@ Bahlgan: I find it strange that you seem to identify yourself as a Loghain fan that that apology was addressing.

I've really never looked at them that closely.  I mean, you see Caillan for, what, 30 seconds of screen time (yes, I exagerate) and Alistair . . . well, meh, I pay little attention to him.

Maybe it's me - meh, it probably IS me . . .but I still don't see much of a resemblance.

I'm going to go on thinking that Caillan is Loghain's son . . . . it makes me happy to think that.  

[lizzbee]

jpdipity wrote...

EnchantedEyes1 wrote...

wicked_being wrote...

Same here. If Alistair was conceived/born at the time of Queen Rowan, why was there no mention at all that there was another potential heir, when Maric was thinking about Fiona and his son competing against Cailan. Besides, everything in pre-DA:O had something to do with Origins and Awakening.

Alistair was conceived after Rowan's death, when Maric went into the Deep Roads with the Orlesian Wardens.

That's never been confirmed.  We don't know if Fiona is Alistair's mother or not.

I believe that Alistair is Fiona's child, but that is my opinion based on the facts that we do know.

So, then, who is Goldanna?  If Alistair's mother wasn't the chambermaid, what relationship does Goldanna have to him?  None?  Or was that all some great lie to screw over some little girl just to make Alistair's true parentage more of a mystery? 

...and for the first time, I feel sorry for Goldanna.

[Sarah1281]

Goldanna likely didn't factor into it at all in the Fiona-is-Alistair's-mother scenario. There was likely just a maid who happened to die (possibly from childbirth) around that time that Eamon quickly used as a cover story. Goldanna isn't any more or less screwed over under these circumstances than she would be in other circumstances.

[lizzbee]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Goldanna likely didn't factor into it at all in the Fiona-is-Alistair's-mother scenario. There was likely just a maid who happened to die (possibly from childbirth) around that time that Eamon quickly used as a cover story. Goldanna isn't any more or less screwed over under these circumstances than she would be in other circumstances.

Well, beyond being psychically screwed because where once she was just a poor little girl, now she's a poor motherless little girl who's been manipulated into thinking she has a royal brother.  She might have been at least resigned to her lot without the "deception," but she now has a sense of false hope and entitlement instilled in her, and she's a lot more bitter at being used.  I never really bought the Fiona-as-Alistair's-mother theory at all-- too much doesn't make sense, and trying to fill in the gaps just makes it all the more unlikely.

Modifié par lizzbee, 04 août 2010 - 02:42 .