109 réponses à ce sujet

[Novadove]

In DA1, our warden at level 35 is almost invincible, defeating everything from children to demons and archdemons.

now the question is, who can defeat the warden? further advancing the warden story arc became unpractical because there is no sense to make an already god-like character to be more god-like again.

The usual way of rectifying such problem is either

a) strip off every equipment the character has or
lost memory and restart from level 1 or
c) invent and produce new god like creature to match character level but end up all context mobs are also god-like
d) change story arc and focus an all new character from scratch

i am not trying to criticise DA2 about playing hawke. infact, i am very excited to play hawke. it's just that i got the feeling my warden is "left there in the middle of no where"

usually dealing with such thing, bioware is really very tacky and would rather escape the topic than to actually deal with it.

this time, all bioware need to do is fix the age problem.

assuming warden is 20 years old (around there), with a life span of average 50 years to live on (peacefully without any blight) and blending into the hawke story arc would be already of an old age. however, it was stated that hawke was in lothering when the blight started. so hawke is just an alternate character parallel with the warden.

now, why would we want to play hawke? wat's the notion of doing it? just so we can rebuild another uber invincible character?

as always, lots of things are left unanswered. since the game is still early, i really hope bioware think about the story carefully and not just focus on hawke's adventure and his in-game behaviour.
 

[AlexXIV]

I'm gonna put it like this: Bioware is taking the easy way out.

I was curious since DA was announced how they would make a game like BG/BG2 with consequences that carry over to the sequel, and when I saw all the possible endings in DA, I was on one hand excited how it would carry over in sequels and on the other side sceptic that they would just let it end like this. Honestly I was disappointed about DA2 announcements, as much I expected/feared it. They couldn't do it, maybe they never planned. They just got us hooked up DA:O with the mere mention of Baldur's Gate so we thought it would be like that. But I honestly doubt they had ever planned to continue the Warden story beyond DA:O+expansions/DLCs.

There it is no wonder that people say that the golden age of RPGs has passed and gone. We get to play Hawke for 10 years and then jump into some other hero's body. That's the easiest way for Bioware and that's the way they gonna do it. Also, isn't it 'Contradiction and Cliche'?

[AntiChri5]

But playing as the Warden.......what would we DO?



We killed the frikken Archdemon!



Only four people in the history of Thedas have pulled that off, and never so quickly and with so little damage.



Seriously, what would we do? Have another Blight? No thanks.



Every story comes to a point where its time to move on.

[Bugzehat]

Novadove wrote...

now, why would we want to play hawke? wat's the notion of doing it? just so we can rebuild another uber invincible character?

All else being equal, surely that's better than starting with an already-uber-invincible character? I'm sure the answers to "why would we want to play Hawke?" will come in time.

[AClockworkMelon]

Novadove wrote...

now, why would we want to play hawke? wat's the notion of doing it? just so we can rebuild another uber invincible character?

Yeah, to hell with story. 

But seriously, why would you want to play as Shepard or Mario or Master Chief or the Warden? This criticism is an empty one.

[AlexXIV]

AClockworkMelon wrote...

Novadove wrote...

now, why would we want to play hawke? wat's the notion of doing it? just so we can rebuild another uber invincible character?

Yeah, to hell with story. 

But seriously, why would you want to play as Shepard or Mario or Master Chief or the Warden? This criticism is an empty one.

It's not like that. I wouldn't mind playing Hawke if I played him in DA1 as well. I am only pissed because the decided to start a new one. I could care less what race, gender or even class. If you jump from hero to hero like a Goa'Uld switches their hosts then you lose the deep connection with the character. If in ME2 at the start after Shepard died from the Collector attack you would have not been revived but instead played with a guy called Hawke instead and meet all the people you knew but don't know them anymore, what would say? Great?

[Bugzehat]

AlexXIV wrote...
It's not like that. I wouldn't mind playing Hawke if I played him in DA1 as well. I am only pissed because the decided to start a new one. I could care less what race, gender or even class. If you jump from hero to hero like a Goa'Uld switches their hosts then you lose the deep connection with the character. If in ME2 at the start after Shepard died from the Collector attack you would have not been revived but instead played with a guy called Hawke instead and meet all the people you knew but don't know them anymore, what would say? Great?

Maybe not, but that's just because Shepard's story was obviously unfinished in ME1. If the Reapers were already defeated, Shepard dead and the storyline wrapped up... why not? The ME universe has great potential and it'd be a shame to waste it rehashing the same story. Same with DA. Who says you can't come to care about a new character like you did the Warden?

[Fault Girl]

I'm looking forward to DA2 as well. I'm just worried about my warden being left in limbo. Sadly I'm not the best with imagination and is the sort of person who need's a clear cut ending on some basis.But as we don't know what they are planning to do I'm just going to stay positive...

Modifié par ZombieGeisha, 29 juillet 2010 - 12:20 .

[AlexXIV]

Bugzehat wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...
It's not like that. I wouldn't mind playing Hawke if I played him in DA1 as well. I am only pissed because the decided to start a new one. I could care less what race, gender or even class. If you jump from hero to hero like a Goa'Uld switches their hosts then you lose the deep connection with the character. If in ME2 at the start after Shepard died from the Collector attack you would have not been revived but instead played with a guy called Hawke instead and meet all the people you knew but don't know them anymore, what would say? Great?

Maybe not, but that's just because Shepard's story was obviously unfinished in ME1. If the Reapers were already defeated, Shepard dead and the storyline wrapped up... why not? The ME universe has great potential and it'd be a shame to waste it rehashing the same story. Same with DA. Who says you can't come to care about a new character like you did the Warden?

Well because when I started DA:O I knew nothing of the world as well, so I started to grow on my Warden and the world at the same time. So my Warden IS Dragon Age. Now the new guy, is just some refugee from Lothering. And his mission is to become powerful, while I could at the same time play my Warden, look for Morrigan or the remaining Archdemons, find out more about darkspawn, etc. There is alot of unfinished stuff for the Warden. It is not like there is nothing to do. DA2 is only side-tracking us from 'more important' things than a man on his quest for power or whatever. Anyway, I hope in DA3 I get to play my Warden again. I wouldn't mind to start at level 10 or 20 without explaination why, since it is only a gamemechanic and I don't care about levels.

[Artemis_Entrari]

As long as the decisions I made in Origins carry over, then I have no issue whatsoever playing a new character.



In fact, I'd rather it be that way.



I don't want to play as a Level 35 Warden from the start of DA2. I also don't want my Warden "sapped" of his levels just so they can start me at Level 1 again. And as others have stated, the Warden's tale is complete. His entire purpose was to slay the Archdemon and stop the Blight. He did that.



The only loose end I can think of, is if you do the Dark Ritual with Morrigan. And while I am interested in seeing how that ends, I don't want them to dedicate an entire game to my Warden trying to track down a crazy swamp witch.



I look forward to playing as a new character. My only concern about the new character is they'll try to make him even more powerful than the Warden. I don't want that. I'm fine with both of them being about on par, but simply just powerful in their own stories.

[Khayness]

Only David Gaider can defeat the Warden.

AntiChri5 wrote...

But playing as the Warden.......what would we DO?

We killed the frikken Archdemon!

Only four people in the history of Thedas have pulled that off, and never so quickly and with so little damage.

Seriously, what would we do? Have another Blight? No thanks.

Every story comes to a point where its time to move on.

There is a world out there with full of possibilities.
A Tevinter bloodmage created a darkspawn worshipping sect and searching for the old gods (he wants to steal their power), assasinating Grey Wardens worldwide, the First Warden sends us to investigate. Or picking up Avernus' research, mastering the taint and venturing into the deepest realms of the Fade?

Only your imagination can set an end to the Warden's adventure.

Modifié par Khayness, 29 juillet 2010 - 04:55 .

[Arttis]

So what he simply writes the warden that stopped the 5th Blight suddenly died.

[Vaeliorin]

AlexXIV wrote...
They just got us hooked up DA:O with the mere mention of Baldur's Gate so we thought it would be like that.

You mean where nothing we did in the first game mattered at all?  Where Jaheira freaks out at seeing Khalid dead in Irenicus' dungeon, even though he got killed by some kobolds a year or so before in my game (and how on earth did Irenicus find his body and keep it in such good condition so long?)  Where Minsc acts like we're buddies even if I never talked to him, and Imoen's all "you're my bestest friend ever" even if you told her to go screw herself right after Gorion died?

Besides, taking the Warden from DA into a DA2 would be like taking a TOB Bhaalspawn into a new game.  It simply wouldn't work without some cheesy "you're losing all your abilities, muhahaha!" cop out.

Personally, assuming Bioware actually comes through with the whole "your actions from DA & Awakening will shape the world in DA2" line, I'd much prefer a new protagonist in DA2 than carrying over the Warden (I would like to see an end to Morrigan's storyline, but I don't think it can be a whole new game because the DR isn't canon, and without that...is Morrigan really anything more than just another apostate?)

[AlanC9]

AlexXIV wrote...
It's not like that. I wouldn't mind playing Hawke if I played him in DA1 as well. I am only pissed because the decided to start a new one. I could care less what race, gender or even class. If you jump from hero to hero like a Goa'Uld switches their hosts then you lose the deep connection with the character. If in ME2 at the start after Shepard died from the Collector attack you would have not been revived but instead played with a guy called Hawke instead and meet all the people you knew but don't know them anymore, what would say? Great?

I'm guessing you haven't played all that many games. BG2 and ME2 aren't the rule. When your character gets to a godlike level you often don't get him back in the sequel

[Khayness]

AlanC9 wrote...

I'm guessing you haven't played all that many games. BG2 and ME2 aren't the rule. When your character gets to a godlike level you often don't get him back in the sequel

*cough*Gothic*cough*

Though it creates interesting scenarios, like after killing a huge undead dragon, in the next game the first boar you meet hands your ass to you.

[DPB]

Khayness wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

I'm guessing you haven't played all that many games. BG2 and ME2 aren't the rule. When your character gets to a godlike level you often don't get him back in the sequel

*cough*Gothic*cough*

Though it creates interesting scenarios, like after killing a huge undead dragon, in the next game the first boar you meet hands your ass to you.

At least they tried to explain it in Gothic II, though being trapped under a pile rubble wasn't much of a reason for becoming incredibly feeble and forgetting everything you knew. In Gothic 3 they didn't even bother, you got off the boat uninjured and suddenly you're level 1 again and even a scavenger can kill you.

Modifié par dbankier, 29 juillet 2010 - 05:23 .

[rayvioletta]

Knights of the Old Republic 2 had a different playable character than the first game. still a very worthy sequel despite some bugs, some elements being rushed and the ending...

Fallout 2 had a different playable character than the first game and again, an excellent sequel

Neverwinter Nights 2, Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines, Elder Scrolls had 6 games (Arena, Daggerfall, Battlespire, Redguard, Morrowind and Oblivion) all with a different playable character



just because Baldurs Gate 2 used the same character as the first game does not mean that every RPG series must do so

[Bryy_Miller]

AlexXIV wrote...

AClockworkMelon wrote...

Novadove wrote...

now, why would we want to play hawke? wat's the notion of doing it? just so we can rebuild another uber invincible character?

Yeah, to hell with story. 

But seriously, why would you want to play as Shepard or Mario or Master Chief or the Warden? This criticism is an empty one.

It's not like that. I wouldn't mind playing Hawke if I played him in DA1 as well.

Which you get to do. DA2 spans from DA1.

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 29 juillet 2010 - 06:11 .

[Behindyounow]

Theres no point in continuing the warden, as DA2 doesn't involve a Blight.

[Maverick827]

"As a series with a recurring protagonist grows longer, the probability of that protagonist turning into a Mary Sue approaches 1."

There is no better solution to the godlike state of the Warden at the end of Awakenings than to simply not feature him or her.

This isn't a mistake; this is the proper course of action. Believing otherwise merely admits to a lack of game design patterns.

Modifié par Maverick827, 29 juillet 2010 - 06:49 .

[Dave of Canada]

I view leveling more as a gaming mechanic than an actual lore event of your character suddenly getting stronger. I take it as your character gets more experienced, he can fight better - yes, but not to the extent of simply laughing off the Archdemon's attacks.

[Zalocx]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I view leveling more as a gaming mechanic than an actual lore event of your character suddenly getting stronger. I take it as your character gets more experienced, he can fight better - yes, but not to the extent of simply laughing off the Archdemon's attacks.

still a guy who killed several dragons should not simply be thrown into a new game, somehow stripped of all his top tier quipment and find out he can barely hurt some highway bandits now

[Sneelonz]

The game isn't even close to being out yet, we aren't supposed to know "why we want to be Hawke".

[Valente11]

omg... you people are control freaks. The warden's story is over, just like countless stories before it that never had sequels made..are all those characters just floating around doing nothing? Society is infatuated with sequels, this is why we have so many #'s in game titles, because PEOPLE get lazy about having to learn new characters and they want the same ones.



Sorry, but Bioware did not take the easy way out. Are serious? The easy way out is to develop a completely new protagonist and story instead of keeping the old one? what? Not a very intelligent argument...



No one knows anything about Hawke, almost all arguments I have heard are so juvenile and backed by nothing but prejudice and cynicism. I've never seen a community try so hard not to like something.