109 réponses à ce sujet

[Sable Rhapsody]

Elithranduil wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Either way someone would have done it before, so that makes no difference.

It was novel back then. It is no longer now.

Very little in games is novel nowadays.  Especially for a genre so enamored of its past as the Western RPG.  It's not about novelty any more, it's about improvement, refinement, and implementation.

[Novadove]

this is not about who likes hawke or who doesnt like hawke



this is not about the scaling of the game.



and this is not about new era or old era.



this is all about getting the right direction for DA2.



i am sick of changing to a new perspective simply because the old one is.... (what?)

1) no more blight to end?

2) dont know how to nerf our munchkin uberness warden?



take naruto and bleech for example. they span 200+ episodes all focusing on the same casts but different incident. the fact is people are still watching



they dont explain things sometimes but they always do ultimately.



if they want to do DA2 hawke, i hope they do it right, making reference to DA1.



if not, u can just play as "watever u want to name here" in DA2. who cares your name is hawke, macdonald, kfc, thomas, chucknorris or whatever.

[Super_Cat]

I really don't need a definite ending to my Warden. I don't feel like they get left in limbo.



The Awakening endings where they disappear and go on more adventures is a great ending I think.

[AlanC9]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Elithranduil wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Either way someone would have done it before, so that makes no difference.

It was novel back then. It is no longer now.

Very little in games is novel nowadays.  Especially for a genre so enamored of its past as the Western RPG.  It's not about novelty any more, it's about improvement, refinement, and implementation.

And did it ever really matter if something was "novel"?

[Morroian]

Novadove wrote...

this is all about getting the right direction for DA2.

What is the right direction? It will differ from person to person. Whats most important is that we get a good game.

[Stoomkal]

I think it is odd that this four page discussion has focused on "levels" - this is not why I want to continue the Warden's story.



It is because the Warden's *story* is not *finished*...



If I finish a novel that ends with a guy calling out to a woman's back "I will come and find you!" then I guess I am pretty hooked for a conclusion...



One ending in DA is a conclusion, one is not... many people feel that there is still a story to be told, but sadly, I do not think this is the case in reality.



I think any coherent ending to this is an "X-file"...

[Morroian]

The Warden's story is the story of defeating the blight, thats over. Do I hope for some resolution of the dark ritual, sure but thats more curiosity about what Morrigan actually does. It doesn't have to be with my warden character.

[Bryy_Miller]

Novadove wrote...

i am sick of changing to a new perspective simply because the old one is.... (what?)
1) no more blight to end?

Well, the Wardens story DOES kind of, you know, end with the Blight.

2) dont know how to nerf our munchkin uberness warden?

I very much doubt this is why they changed the story.

take naruto and bleech for example. they span 200+ episodes all focusing on the same casts but different incident. the fact is people are still watching

they dont explain things sometimes but they always do ultimately.

Those are TV shows. You can't honestly compare the two.

if they want to do DA2 hawke, i hope they do it right, making reference to DA1.

You do know you can import your choices, right? Hopefully you did do research before posting.

[Befit]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Befit wrote...

filaminstrel wrote...

Well it depends on what Hawke does, I suppose. We'll have to wait and see. Andraste became pretty darn important without spending much time worrying about darkspawn.

lol personally I don't think what she did was that important. religions just like nations come and go with the passage of time. However evil monsters that come out of the ground to destroy the world can't really be ignored

I agree that the darkspawn are an immediate and urgent concern whenever they turn up.  And there are two more Blights.  But you can't tell me that freaking ANDRASTE isn't important.  She threw down the most powerful empire in Thedas at the time and established an enormously powerful religion whose social, political, and even economic clout stretches all across Thedas.

Also see: the great monotheistic faiths, Hinduism, Buddhism, and other major faiths around the world.  These have lasted for thousands of years, and their imprint upon our world is indelible.  Hell, even "dead" faiths like Greek mythology continue to have an impact.  When you believe something, it results in a difference of behavior.  And that difference of behavior, when compounded over millions of people and generations of time, has an impact.

Like I said before religiouns come and go, people will always need thier faith and feel the need to be watched out for. Let me ask u this if the world was attacked by creatures like the darkspawn wouldn't that have more of an impact than a religion? The darkspawn are still a threat, they live right beneath the people of thedas and are constantly knocking on the dwarves door. If u were a dwarf in Ozammar do really care more about what some dude is doing in the free maches or the hideous monsters constantly trying to kill u?

[Novadove]

i know DA2 import decisions that we made in DA1.

but the ultimate question is, what big decisions in DA1 we made affect hawke?

does the very existence of warden even has any impact to hawke at all?

to do DA2 right, it boils down to either

1) continue warden story arc or,

2) forget warden, introduce new character, new story

now, let's say bioware chooses option 2,

so what is DA3? i know the answer!

it will be someone call rabbit.

DA4, someone call tiger. DA5, someone call monkey.

is it the right thing to do? i dont think so.

what is more important and more interesting, is that DA2 has nothing to do with DA1.

tell me, what major decision in DA1 that can change something so drastically, that make us need to play hawke in DA2?

if blight ended with the warden, then hawke is simply someone that has no significance in DAO era.
if blight did not end, then all ultimately hawke can do is to defeat the blight just like the warden did.

tell me, what so new and different is this notion?

Modifié par Novadove, 02 août 2010 - 12:20 .

[Ryngard]

The biggest thing most of you are missing is the common sense factor.



Lets say they DID continue with the Warden. It would be your guy, same looks, come from the same choices you imported. However to have the game make sense you would be level 1. The game has to be balanced. It worked perfectly for Mass Effect, it'd work here too.



You have to suspend a certain level of belief and just go with it. It doesn't work otherwise. If you want a level 80 Warden, go play an MMO. That's what you'll end up with.



It is a moot point anyway. I mean come on... let it go.

[Befit]

Ryngard wrote...

The biggest thing most of you are missing is the common sense factor.

Lets say they DID continue with the Warden. It would be your guy, same looks, come from the same choices you imported. However to have the game make sense you would be level 1. The game has to be balanced. It worked perfectly for Mass Effect, it'd work here too.

You have to suspend a certain level of belief and just go with it. It doesn't work otherwise. If you want a level 80 Warden, go play an MMO. That's what you'll end up with.

It is a moot point anyway. I mean come on... let it go.

We really don't give a damn about leveling. Where in the story does ur character HAVE to be level 80? This is what happends when people believe in too much a game mechanic that it limits story. Leveling up and skills have no bearing on the STORY, they only affect COMBAT which is not as important as a good story. Like mentioned before where in the story was it needed that u learn critical strike? Leveling is just a way of showing that ur character has gained experienced.

[ankuu]

Befit wrote...

Ryngard wrote...

The biggest thing most of you are missing is the common sense factor.

Lets say they DID continue with the Warden. It would be your guy, same looks, come from the same choices you imported. However to have the game make sense you would be level 1. The game has to be balanced. It worked perfectly for Mass Effect, it'd work here too.

You have to suspend a certain level of belief and just go with it. It doesn't work otherwise. If you want a level 80 Warden, go play an MMO. That's what you'll end up with.

It is a moot point anyway. I mean come on... let it go.

We really don't give a damn about leveling. Where in the story does ur character HAVE to be level 80? This is what happends when people believe in too much a game mechanic that it limits story. Leveling up and skills have no bearing on the STORY, they only affect COMBAT which is not as important as a good story. Like mentioned before where in the story was it needed that u learn critical strike? Leveling is just a way of showing that ur character has gained experienced.

You seriously don't understand that the Warden's story must come to an end. He is a Warden, his duty was to stop the blight, to fight darkspawn. He fought dragons, darkspawn and is like a walking god...he saw more dragons and darkspawn than 1000 ferelden citizens! He can't do MORE than that...

And i don't understand what's this continuity problem. There will be more DLCs that will expand the story with the Warden, and the sequal will be about another hero that you are going to love in the end...but so many games don't have continuity and are great games (think about the Elder Scrolls or Fable).

Also the leveling part is still a problem, even if you don't admit it. Even if the game says you are level 1 in a new sequel, you are NOT level 1. You can't get killed by a thief after you damned killed the archdemon! So you are tehnically level 80.

Modifié par ankuu, 02 août 2010 - 12:58 .

[Befit]

ankuu wrote...

Befit wrote...

Ryngard wrote...

The biggest thing most of you are missing is the common sense factor.

Lets say they DID continue with the Warden. It would be your guy, same looks, come from the same choices you imported. However to have the game make sense you would be level 1. The game has to be balanced. It worked perfectly for Mass Effect, it'd work here too.

You have to suspend a certain level of belief and just go with it. It doesn't work otherwise. If you want a level 80 Warden, go play an MMO. That's what you'll end up with.

It is a moot point anyway. I mean come on... let it go.

We really don't give a damn about leveling. Where in the story does ur character HAVE to be level 80? This is what happends when people believe in too much a game mechanic that it limits story. Leveling up and skills have no bearing on the STORY, they only affect COMBAT which is not as important as a good story. Like mentioned before where in the story was it needed that u learn critical strike? Leveling is just a way of showing that ur character has gained experienced.

You seriously don't understand that the Warden's story must come to an end. He is a Warden, his duty was to stop the blight, to fight darkspawn. He fought dragons, darkspawn and is like a walking god...he saw more dragons and darkspawn than 1000 ferelden citizens! He can't do MORE than that...

And i don't understand what's this continuity problem. There will be more DLCs that will expand the story with the Warden, and the sequal will be about another hero that you are going to love in the end...but so many games don't have continuity and are great games (think about the Elder Scrolls or Fable).

Also the leveling part is still a problem, even if you don't admit it. Even if the games says you are level 1 in a new sequal, you are NOT level 1. You can't get killed by a thief after you damned killed the archdemon! So you are tehnically level 80.

Yes u can get killed by a thief, u're not immortal u're just good at fighting. And u're forgetting that u fought as part of a team with other people of unique skills. The warden was more a leader of a special forces team than a walking god. And i don't care if the warden comes back or not what I'm saying is that just cuz a character is high level dosn't mean he's too epic and can never come back. Leveling is an illusion meant to represent the gaining of experience not how close to god hood u are. Look at professional fighters, it's rare for a person to stay a champion for long. U're still a mortal, a mortal who is very good at fighting but not unstoppable. Look at duncan, he killed an ogre by himself but got tooken by a hurlock.

[Lyna357]

AntiChri5 wrote...

But playing as the Warden.......what would we DO?

We killed the frikken Archdemon!

Only four people in the history of Thedas have pulled that off, and never so quickly and with so little damage.

Seriously, what would we do? Have another Blight? No thanks.

Every story comes to a point where its time to move on.

Please don't hate me. First let me say, I accept the fact that we have a new hero for DA2.

What would we do? Well, I envisioned the Warden going on to rebuild the Grey Wardens. Since s/he was powerful and experienced, s/he could fill the role of mentor, sort of taking Duncan's place. S/he could travel to different (new) locations recruiting new wardens and rebuilding the ranks (our party). I was hoping maybe to see Weisshaupt. Along the way s/he could possibly run into Morrigan and maybe a couple of other companions from Origins during our recruiting. Then the story could transition to focus on the new up-and-coming recruits and their adventures/traning missions.
All they would have to do is make the Dark Ritual cannon or if your Warden died, have you inhabit another body, ie Justice.
And no, not another blight ...just yet. Just the adventures of getting prepared for the next one and some closure for the Warden.
Edit: for typos

Modifié par Lyna357, 02 août 2010 - 01:31 .

[AlanC9]

Befit wrote...
Where in the story does ur character HAVE to be level 80? This is what happends when people believe in too much a game mechanic that it limits story. Leveling up and skills have no bearing on the STORY, they only affect COMBAT which is not as important as a good story. Like mentioned before where in the story was it needed that u learn critical strike? Leveling is just a way of showing that ur character has gained experienced.

Yeah, but by the end of DAO the Warden can solo ogres without breaking a sweat. Is he going to forget how to do that in a sequel, or not?

[Befit]

AlanC9 wrote...

Befit wrote...
Where in the story does ur character HAVE to be level 80? This is what happends when people believe in too much a game mechanic that it limits story. Leveling up and skills have no bearing on the STORY, they only affect COMBAT which is not as important as a good story. Like mentioned before where in the story was it needed that u learn critical strike? Leveling is just a way of showing that ur character has gained experienced.

Yeah, but by the end of DAO the Warden can solo ogres without breaking a sweat. Is he going to forget how to do that in a sequel, or not?

Where in the story does u're character have no problem taking down ogres? If u're in a fight and u beat a guy does this mean u can always beat him no problem? if so why watch boxing or UFC?

[AlanC9]

Are you saying that what the character has actually done in the game just sort of unhappens? You're serious?

And if I can easily beat the guy, he wouldn't be put in a rematch with me.

Modifié par AlanC9, 02 août 2010 - 02:19 .

[Lyna357]

AlanC9 wrote...

Are you saying that what the character has actually done in the game just sort of unhappens? You're serious?

And if I can easily beat the guy, he wouldn't be put in a rematch with me.

One might argue that the darkspawn taint weakens the warden as s/he it progresses?

[iTomes]

"One might argue that the darkspawn taint weakens the warden as s/he it progresses?"



as far as i know the taint doesn't weaken you at all....

[Befit]

AlanC9 wrote...

Are you saying that what the character has actually done in the game just sort of unhappens? You're serious?

And if I can easily beat the guy, he wouldn't be put in a rematch with me.

What I'm saying is that the skill system and leveling system affect combat only (except for cunning and persuasion). Do i get a different story if i never leveled up my warden? How did it affect ur character that he learned mighty blow over critical strike? Why not? people lose to people they have beaten before all the time. Fighters become champs and lose the title often.

[Chitinous]

Flemeth: And you, what do you believe your role in DA2 will be?



Warden: I don't know what to believe.



Flemeth: An answer showing more wisdom than it implies.



Warden: It's all right for you, you've been confirmed.



Flemeth: Have I? (Throaty laugh)

[ankuu]

Befit wrote...

ankuu wrote...

Befit wrote...

Ryngard wrote...

The biggest thing most of you are missing is the common sense factor.

Lets say they DID continue with the Warden. It would be your guy, same looks, come from the same choices you imported. However to have the game make sense you would be level 1. The game has to be balanced. It worked perfectly for Mass Effect, it'd work here too.

You have to suspend a certain level of belief and just go with it. It doesn't work otherwise. If you want a level 80 Warden, go play an MMO. That's what you'll end up with.

It is a moot point anyway. I mean come on... let it go.

We really don't give a damn about leveling. Where in the story does ur character HAVE to be level 80? This is what happends when people believe in too much a game mechanic that it limits story. Leveling up and skills have no bearing on the STORY, they only affect COMBAT which is not as important as a good story. Like mentioned before where in the story was it needed that u learn critical strike? Leveling is just a way of showing that ur character has gained experienced.

You seriously don't understand that the Warden's story must come to an end. He is a Warden, his duty was to stop the blight, to fight darkspawn. He fought dragons, darkspawn and is like a walking god...he saw more dragons and darkspawn than 1000 ferelden citizens! He can't do MORE than that...

And i don't understand what's this continuity problem. There will be more DLCs that will expand the story with the Warden, and the sequal will be about another hero that you are going to love in the end...but so many games don't have continuity and are great games (think about the Elder Scrolls or Fable).

Also the leveling part is still a problem, even if you don't admit it. Even if the games says you are level 1 in a new sequal, you are NOT level 1. You can't get killed by a thief after you damned killed the archdemon! So you are tehnically level 80.

Yes u can get killed by a thief, u're not immortal u're just good at fighting. And u're forgetting that u fought as part of a team with other people of unique skills. The warden was more a leader of a special forces team than a walking god. And i don't care if the warden comes back or not what I'm saying is that just cuz a character is high level dosn't mean he's too epic and can never come back. Leveling is an illusion meant to represent the gaining of experience not how close to god hood u are. Look at professional fighters, it's rare for a person to stay a champion for long. U're still a mortal, a mortal who is very good at fighting but not unstoppable. Look at duncan, he killed an ogre by himself but got tooken by a hurlock.

During the Fade for example, you are on your own and put down many spirits. And i am not talking about not being able to die, i am talking about how a thief can't kill you in battle. 

Duncan was emotionally distroyed when he saw Cailian dead. If you have read the books you would have known that Cailian meant a lot for him...also he was near his Calling so a little weak.

Maybe the leveling is an illusion but what you did is NOT a illusion. You killed a damn Archdemon and a LOT of other foes. With help or not, you are not a noob at fighting...you can be called an expert.

If i could do a video now on how i can kill darkspawn in Awakening alone, on Normal mode/Hard mode i would. Awakening felt like a kid's play...Anders/Ogrhen/Warden and Nathaniel could finish off anything easily on Normal/Hard mode.

Modifié par ankuu, 02 août 2010 - 04:40 .

[RevengeofNewton]

WHY DO WE HAVE TO PLAY THE EXILE IN KOTOR 2????? I WANT TO PLAY REVAN AGAIN GARRRRRRR!