74 réponses à ce sujet

[Sable Rhapsody]

Rubbish Hero wrote...
Alot of people didn't even start on Bioware games until KOTOR and  Mass Effect. Some people don't play pc games at all. Some people haven't even heard  of Baldurs Gate. When people talk about "old school" and
"CRPG" they  probably can't comprehend what they haven't  experienced.  It's also a pretty bad thing to think new automatically  means better, design decisions especially with pc, now more console focused games tend to be dictated by money more than anything else.

Funny that you bring up Baldur's Gate.  My favorite game series of all time.  And interestingly enough, what does it have?  A single origin story where your backstory, childhood home, and even your family are predetermined by the game.  An overall plot arc driven by your character rising to become the hero of the Sword Coast, then something more.  A game that limits you a hell of a lot--your origin, heritage, general destiny, and even your party between BG1 and BG2 are canonized, and the overall plot is on one hell of a set of railroad tracks.

Or perhaps PS:T, in which you play the Nameless One.  You start out as a level 3 fighter in a mortuary.  The deeds of your past lives are completely set in stone.  Your story is about discovering who you are, were, and will be, within a pretty narrow set of confines from the game, at least as far as origin and backstory are concerned.  

How about Fallout?  You start out as the Vault Dweller.  You are human, have lived your entire life in a vault, and you're sent out into the world to get water.  Can't change that either no matter what you do.  No elves, dwarves, or mages here.  And no, you can't start as a mutant.  Boo hoo.

My point is that a lot of the most beloved old-school CRPGs share much more in common with the central plot conceit of DA2 than they do with DA:O; in this light, I find a lot of the complaints about DA2 very ironic.  DA:O is actually relatively new and unique in that it gives you so many possible backstories.  PS:T and Fallout are just as or more limiting than DA2, and the only addition customization BG2 has is that of race.  And yet we love these CRPGs for the stories and characters they tell us, and it's absolutely true that limiting a few things at character creation allows the devs to pour more time and effort into the main plot.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 29 juillet 2010 - 07:57 .

[Haexpane]

Discus wrote...
  I have confidence that Bioware will do their best to surprise us, 

Oh they already have!

-Shirtless Bearded Hipster Hawke
-Kratos the Qunari
-HUmans only

[Omen72]

Discus (1st post)

I agree with you, to be honest I do not like the sound of the one or two of the changes that are being made but, it is inevitable, the game can not stay the same or it would become stale and boring so it has to change and evolve, and so I trust Bioware as I'm sure (seeing how popular their game has become) they will want to keep all their current fans and make believers of those who currently have not or do not play Dragon Age.

I just wonder if Hawke will be the protagonist for future Dragon Age titles the same way Shepard is for Mass Effect so that we we have is the first game setting a general feeling of the area, it's people and belief's, politics, etc, with future games having one main character but the events of all previous games evolving the story, character and people of the world your playing in.


What I will say is that for me, personally, as someone that came to Dragon Age later than most, I am really looking forward to the next game irrospective of what changes are made, or how the characters are differnt or anything else you could name that's going to be different, if it is anything like the first game it is going to be good, if the changes are being made then obviously it is to improve the game so this should (fingers crossed) be better than the original game.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Omen72 wrote...

I just wonder if Hawke will be the protagonist for future Dragon Age titles the same way Shepard is for Mass Effect so that we we have is the first game setting a general feeling of the area, it's people and belief's, politics, etc, with future games having one main character but the events of all previous games evolving the story, character and people of the world your playing in.

Hmm...I doubt Hawke will have a role analogous to Shepard's.  Mass Effect is the story of Shepard.  We've been told that since day 1.  Dragon Age is the story of Thedas.  And Thedas is much bigger, more complex, and more dynamic than any one person, no matter how important.  At least, that's how I hope it will be.  I love my Warden, and I'm already loving the evil little FemHawke I'm crafting in my mind, but I don't want to play twenty zillion stories with these characters.  One core game + expansion per protagonist is good enough for me.

[HopHazzard]

Haexpane wrote...

Discus wrote...
  I have confidence that Bioware will do their best to surprise us, 

Oh they already have!

-Shirtless Bearded Hipster Hawke
-Kratos the Qunari
-HUmans only

If you truly believe that's anything but a placeholder graphic in a game that's nowhere near finished, then you should go unplug your modem right now because you're too stupid to be on the internet. If you've got legitimate gripes (and there are many that people can make) then go ahead and make them, but don't be an idiot.

[Grommash94]

HopHazzard wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

Discus wrote...
  I have confidence that Bioware will do their best to surprise us, 

Oh they already have!

-Shirtless Bearded Hipster Hawke
-Kratos the Qunari
-HUmans only

If you truly believe that's anything but a placeholder graphic in a game that's nowhere near finished, then you should go unplug your modem right now because you're too stupid to be on the internet. If you've got legitimate gripes (and there are many that people can make) then go ahead and make them, but don't be an idiot.

He has mentioned that in various threads, as a joke I believe.

[Zalocx]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Omen72 wrote...

I just wonder if Hawke will be the protagonist for future Dragon Age titles the same way Shepard is for Mass Effect so that we we have is the first game setting a general feeling of the area, it's people and belief's, politics, etc, with future games having one main character but the events of all previous games evolving the story, character and people of the world your playing in.

Hmm...I doubt Hawke will have a role analogous to Shepard's.  Mass Effect is the story of Shepard.  We've been told that since day 1.  Dragon Age is the story of Thedas.  And Thedas is much bigger, more complex, and more dynamic than any one person, no matter how important.  At least, that's how I hope it will be.  I love my Warden, and I'm already loving the evil little FemHawke I'm crafting in my mind, but I don't want to play twenty zillion stories with these characters.  One core game + expansion per protagonist is good enough for me.

This is how I feel too. 1 game per protagonist. With different games taking place in different nations. I want to play as a Qunari and batter down the walls of Tivinter, and then get into political intrique in Orlais as another character, and then Antiva, the Anderfells, Rivin, rebuild the Dwarven empire and do tons more stuff. Different tales with different heroes.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Grommash94 wrote...

HopHazzard wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

Discus wrote...
  I have confidence that Bioware will do their best to surprise us, 

Oh they already have!

-Shirtless Bearded Hipster Hawke
-Kratos the Qunari
-HUmans only

If you truly believe that's anything but a placeholder graphic in a game that's nowhere near finished, then you should go unplug your modem right now because you're too stupid to be on the internet. If you've got legitimate gripes (and there are many that people can make) then go ahead and make them, but don't be an idiot.

He has mentioned that in various threads, as a joke I believe.

As a person who lives in Los Angeles--and specifically Silverlake, the natural habitat of the hipster, I can state with confidence that no actual hipster would walk about shirtless.  The social behavior of the hipster mandates vests and silly hats (though sadly not silly walks), lest the hipster lose his standing in the group hierarchy.  

[Grommash94]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Grommash94 wrote...

HopHazzard wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

Discus wrote...
  I have confidence that Bioware will do their best to surprise us, 

Oh they already have!

-Shirtless Bearded Hipster Hawke
-Kratos the Qunari
-HUmans only

If you truly believe that's anything but a placeholder graphic in a game that's nowhere near finished, then you should go unplug your modem right now because you're too stupid to be on the internet. If you've got legitimate gripes (and there are many that people can make) then go ahead and make them, but don't be an idiot.

He has mentioned that in various threads, as a joke I believe.

As a person who lives in Los Angeles--and specifically Silverlake, the natural habitat of the hipster, I can state with confidence that no actual hipster would walk about shirtless.  The social behavior of the hipster mandates vests and silly hats (though sadly not silly walks), lest the hipster lose his standing in the group hierarchy.  

Hah. Fair enough

[Omen72]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
Hmm...I doubt Hawke will have a role analogous to Shepard's.  Mass Effect is the story of Shepard.  We've been told that since day 1.  Dragon Age is the story of Thedas.  And Thedas is much bigger, more complex, and more dynamic than any one person, no matter how important.  At least, that's how I hope it will be.  I love my Warden, and I'm already loving the evil little FemHawke I'm crafting in my mind, but I don't want to play twenty zillion stories with these characters.  One core game + expansion per protagonist is good enough for me.

It sounds like the Darkspawn will be very happy to avoid your evil little FemHawke

As for your point, I understand what you mean, when you mentioned about each game in the series of Dragon Age being the story of Thedas as seen by the main character, and that would be good too but it'd be nice to play with the same character (although I suppose with it being a decade you could re-use the character for dragon age three) but the more i think about it the more I think your right, this would be a better way of doing it.

[Maverick827]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Funny that you bring up Baldur's Gate.  My favorite game series of all time.  And interestingly enough, what does it have?  A single origin story where your backstory, childhood home, and even your family are predetermined by the game.  An overall plot arc driven by your character rising to become the hero of the Sword Coast, then something more.  A game that limits you a hell of a lot--your origin, heritage, general destiny, and even your party between BG1 and BG2 are canonized, and the overall plot is on one hell of a set of railroad tracks.

Or perhaps PS:T, in which you play the Nameless One.  You start out as a level 3 fighter in a mortuary.  The deeds of your past lives are completely set in stone.  Your story is about discovering who you are, were, and will be, within a pretty narrow set of confines from the game, at least as far as origin and backstory are concerned.  

How about Fallout?  You start out as the Vault Dweller.  You are human, have lived your entire life in a vault, and you're sent out into the world to get water.  Can't change that either no matter what you do.  No elves, dwarves, or mages here.  And no, you can't start as a mutant.  Boo hoo.

My point is that a lot of the most beloved old-school CRPGs share much more in common with the central plot conceit of DA2 than they do with DA:O; in this light, I find a lot of the complaints about DA2 very ironic.  DA:O is actually relatively new and unique in that it gives you so many possible backstories.  PS:T and Fallout are just as or more limiting than DA2, and the only addition customization BG2 has is that of race.  And yet we love these CRPGs for the stories and characters they tell us, and it's absolutely true that limiting a few things at character creation allows the devs to pour more time and effort into the main plot.

This should have been the last post in this thread.

Come to think of it, this should be the last post in most threads on these forums.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Maverick827 wrote...
This should have been the last post in this thread.

Come to think of it, this should be the last post in most threads on these forums.

*snicker*  FINALLY!  I am imbued with Evil Chris Priestly's mad thread-ending abilities! 

...I don't think I could pull off the evil as well as he can.  I'm just saying 

[Zalocx]

To drive the nail deeper into Sable's point for all the people complaining about how the switch to Hawke betrays DA as a CRPG I would like to remind everyone that BG and ME are outliers in the computer RPG genre where you continue to play the same character in multiple games. Compare to NWN I & II, KotOR I + II, Fallout 1, 2, 3, and soon New Vagas, and TES 1-4 (excluding Arena). All where each game you played a new hero in the same setting. So Dragon Age 2's main character shift isn't "New and Bad" its actually more traditional than both its contemporary partner (Mass Effect) and its spiritual ancestor (Baldur's Gate)

[Sable Rhapsody]

Zalocx wrote...

To drive the nail deeper into Sable's point for all the people complaining about how the switch to Hawke betrays DA as a CRPG I would like to remind everyone that BG and ME are outliers in the computer RPG genre where you continue to play the same character in multiple games. Compare to NWN I & II, KotOR I + II, Fallout 1, 2, 3, and soon New Vagas, and TES 1-4 (excluding Arena). All where each game you played a new hero in the same setting. So Dragon Age 2's main character shift isn't "New and Bad" its actually more traditional than both its contemporary partner (Mass Effect) and its spiritual ancestor (Baldur's Gate)

I could be wrong since I've never tried it; I think you can import the Bhaalspawn into NWN I, but that's where the import continuity ends.  I mean, I suppose you play as Link in all the Zelda games, but it's different incarnations of Link.  You play as Samus in the Metroid games, but they have to keep coming up with new ways to depower her so you don't finish the game as God and Sexy Overmind of All the Universe...though that would be pretty cool.

The whole thing on the Warden not being the hero of DA2 reminds me of Heroes.  They were planning on a new cast and story every season, then the fans got so attached to the season 1 characters that they scrapped season 2's plan and rewrote it to contain the fan favorite characters.  And it was AWFUL 

[Bryy_Miller]

Haexpane wrote...

Discus wrote...
  I have confidence that Bioware will do their best to surprise us, 

Oh they already have!

-Shirtless Bearded Hipster Hawke
-Kratos the Qunari
-HUmans only

Go back under your bridge, please.

[DPB]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

I could be wrong since I've never tried it; I think you can import the Bhaalspawn into NWN I, but that's where the import continuity ends.

You can't, NWN starts you at level 1. They advertised that in the BG2 loading screens, but that was before they changed to 3rd edition D&D, and before ToB concluded the story.

[Sable Rhapsody]

dbankier wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

I could be wrong since I've never tried it; I think you can import the Bhaalspawn into NWN I, but that's where the import continuity ends.

You can't, NWN starts you at level 1. They advertised that in the BG2 loading screens, but that was before they changed to 3rd edition D&D, and before ToB concluded the story.

OK.  Thanks for clearing that up 

[Tigress M]

I was excited to learn I'd get the opportunity to play a new character in DA2. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love my elven rogue Warden, but after ripping through Awakenings like it was a trip through a park, I'm not sure I want to play my super overpowered Warden again. She's had a good life (several times over) but like others have said, by the time DA2 comes out it will be time to put her to bed and move on.

We have years and years left in this Dragon Age and I can't wait to see all the wonderful people we'll meet and all the characters we can play.

[Haexpane]

HopHazzard wrote...

  you're too stupid to be on the internet. 

Oh here we go, I won't dignify the insult

[HopHazzard]

Haexpane wrote...

HopHazzard wrote...

  you're too stupid to be on the internet. 

Oh here we go, I won't dignify the insult

Yet you'll reply to it out of context?

[stevej713]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

Disappointment tends to be louder than contentment. I am tentatively optimistic about the DA2 design direction, as are many on the forums answering the complaints. Any time people feel that something is being taken away from them (whether or not it derives from a misplaced feeling of entitlement), they are going to be upset.

I remember WotC announcing the coming of 4th Edition D&D about a year out, in order to let the rage spend itself before the actual release. The change in edition really made some players feel betrayed; it was like watching primal scream therapy on the boards. Some of the them have probably quietly picked up 4th Edition, and some have stayed with some variation of 3rd.

No one likes to feel like his preferences are becoming obsolete, though. It's a lonely feeling. The normal arguments will ensue, and fans of the new game must be branded as the Philistines that they undoubtedly are.

Nerdrage. Nerdrage never changes.

/Ron Perlman

I couldn't agree more.  You can only say "wow, that's awesome" a few times, but you can complain about stuff you hate for days on end.

[Haexpane]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
 
As a person who lives in Los Angeles--and specifically Silverlake, the natural habitat of the hipster, I can state with confidence that no actual hipster would walk about shirtless. 

That is, until they attend a PBR hipster party, then it's no shirt, spandex American Apparel tights, and a lulz irony 80s Pretty In Pink tie

[Haexpane]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...


I could be wrong since I've never tried it; I think you can import the Bhaalspawn into NWN I,

EXPORT exists on BG2, but import was removed in NWN for technical/ruleset etc... reasons

[Haexpane]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

 

Go back under your bridge, please.

More content free insults!  Hooray for not posting your opinion, and instead just insults!